EMR class 156s for Northern

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It was mentioned to me by a colleague (and by fleet control at EMR), and in my original post I did make it clear that I wasn’t sure on the truth of it. EMR are stretched with rolling stock as it is, what with 153s leaving the fleet and the 170s taking a long time to filter through from the West Midlands so it could well make sense. The original plan was for the 156/9s to be the first to go and it was said by the above that 156401/415 would come back in exchange for two 156/9s. It must be said that plans can be turbulent and things change

If you are doubtful, the best thing to do is to wait and see.

Why not send the /9s first then… ?

 

[superkev]

Are any more of the promised 156s ( was it 16) for Northern due to move on the near future or just the 4 recent transfers.
K

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think they should be transferring more 156s over to Northern and subsequently 170s to EMR from WMT. WMT chose to order these slow and delayed 196s, and I don’t think EMR and Northern should lose out anymore just because those 196s are being such a pain.

 

[3973EXL]

156919 joined 156422 at Wolverton yesterday.
Heading North, via Wolverton | Former EMR 156919 begins its … | Flickr

 

[STINT47]

If EMR have to give up trains when they have a shortage of stock then why don't WMT and TFW have to do the same? Yes this would leave them short but by sending trains to Northern but not getting new trains EMR passengers appear to be getting the worse deal out of everyone.

 

[childwallblues]

Of the ex EMT units only 156415 is in service today. It is on Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Oxford Road services paired with 156461.

 

[superkev]

If EMR have to give up trains when they have a shortage of stock then why don't WMT and TFW have to do the same? Yes this would leave them short but by sending trains to Northern but not getting new trains EMR passengers appear to be getting the worse deal out of everyone.

I dont think EMR can be short of 156s as it was reported above they have 2 in store at Barrow Hill for some reason. Are they off lease or still leased? Unit numbers?
Thanks

 

[childwallblues]

Just to say EMT have been on Realtime Trains since Monday.

 

[3973EXL]

I dont think EMR can be short of 156s as it was reported above they have 2 in store at Barrow Hill for some reason. Are they off lease or still leased? Unit numbers?
Thanks

Thankyou.
I see 156 909 and 917 are shown as stored at Barrow hill for some reason
K

 

[childwallblues]

156402 is in service with Northern today. It was on 2O81 1215 Manchester Oxford Road to Liverpool Lime Street paired with 156479, nowadays off Heaton but once a Resident of Allerton.

 

[jaketaylor]

156402 is in service with Northern today. It was on 2O81 1215 Manchester Oxford Road to Liverpool Lime Street paired with 156479, nowadays off Heaton but once a Resident of Allerton.

It was out New Year’s Day too. Photo on Flickr of it. As for 479 it can stay down there we could do with 401 or 415 to add a bit of colour lol

 

[LOL The Irony]

It was out New Year’s Day too. Photo on Flickr of it. As for 479 it can stay down there we could do with 401 or 415 to add a bit of colour lol

Straight swap with the 158s you nicked off of us and you have a deal

 

[158722]

156909/917 moved from Barrow Hill to Etches Park this morning.

 

[BPN2022]

I notice 156401/402 are the only 2 that are frequently being used. 415 hasn’t been out since mid-December and 412 hasn’t moved yet I don’t think.

Does anyone know when 412/415 will come out in service? Or if 401 will be heading for a repaint soon?

 

[Ribbleman]

Are any more of the promised 156s ( was it 16) for Northern due to move on the near future or just the 4 recent transfers.
K

Northern are not expecting any further ex-EMR 156 units to arrive at Newton Heath until March.

 

[507020]

Northern are not expecting any further ex-EMR 156 units to arrive at Newton Heath until March.

So what will happen if one arrives there unexpectedly before then?

 

[Ribbleman]

So what will happen if one arrives there unexpectedly before then?

Then the management will be surprised.

 

[Dspatula]

I notice 156401/402 are the only 2 that are frequently being used. 415 hasn’t been out since mid-December and 412 hasn’t moved yet I don’t think.

Does anyone know when 412/415 will come out in service? Or if 401 will be heading for a repaint soon?

415 was on the Warrington line just after new year for a week or so still with the EMR logos on, which confused quite a few people trying to get to Warrington West. 412 was on the Warrington line yesterday which is the first time I've seen it out.

 

[diligentdave]

Northern are not expecting any further ex-EMR 156 units to arrive at Newton Heath until March.

Then the management will be surprised.

Very surprised. Units aren't required until the December timetable.

 

[Ribbleman]

Very surprised. Units aren't required until the December timetable.

Maybe not, though a member of Northern’s management has said that they are expecting an unspecified quantity in March with the balance to come over the following months. The pair that recently moved from storage at Barrow Hiil to Etches Park, 909 and 917, are among them.
As of two weeks ago, details of stock deployment from December were still being worked out, but at least some and maybe all of the 3-car Class 150/0 formations will be moving to Neville Hill, primarily for the Huddersfield-Sheffield line. Their place on the Rochdale-Manchester Victoria-Clitheroe service will be taken by pairs of Class 156 sets from Newton Heath, newly augmented by the transfers from East Midlands.
There are many factors which could upset what circumstances dictate are somewhat fluid plans, not least being the delayed introduction of Class 196 in the West Midlands, in turn preventing transfer of Class 170 units to East Midlands and therefore affecting the movement of Class 156 sets to Northern.

 

[SLTRegular]

Pretty sure the Normal 3 car 150 are staying but the 4 hybrid are moving over.

 

[43055]

Maybe not, though a member of Northern’s management has said that they are expecting an unspecified quantity in March with the balance to come over the following months. The pair that recently moved from storage at Barrow Hiil to Etches Park, 909 and 917, are among them.
As of two weeks ago, details of stock deployment from December were still being worked out, but at least some and maybe all of the 3-car Class 150/0 formations will be moving to Neville Hill, primarily for the Huddersfield-Sheffield line. Their place on the Rochdale-Manchester Victoria-Clitheroe service will be taken by pairs of Class 156 sets from Newton Heath, newly augmented by the transfers from East Midlands.
There are many factors which could upset what circumstances dictate are somewhat fluid plans, not least being the delayed introduction of Class 196 in the West Midlands, in turn preventing transfer of Class 170 units to East Midlands and therefore affecting the movement of Class 156 sets to Northern.

Hopefully EMR can hold onto what they have until more 170s arrive. Looking at RTT for the last week most days had short forms 2 coaches on the Liverpool's and that's with a reduced service on other routes as well!

 

[diligentdave]

Maybe not, though a member of Northern’s management has said that they are expecting an unspecified quantity in March with the balance to come over the following months. The pair that recently moved from storage at Barrow Hiil to Etches Park, 909 and 917, are among them.
As of two weeks ago, details of stock deployment from December were still being worked out, but at least some and maybe all of the 3-car Class 150/0 formations will be moving to Neville Hill, primarily for the Huddersfield-Sheffield line. Their place on the Rochdale-Manchester Victoria-Clitheroe service will be taken by pairs of Class 156 sets from Newton Heath, newly augmented by the transfers from East Midlands.
There are many factors which could upset what circumstances dictate are somewhat fluid plans, not least being the delayed introduction of Class 196 in the West Midlands, in turn preventing transfer of Class 170 units to East Midlands and therefore affecting the movement of Class 156 sets to Northern.

Well, the "member of Northern's management" obviously knows more than the other "members of Northern's management" then. Especially since I'm the "member of Northern's management" who has to inspect every unit before they arrive into us and my diary is empty for March!

 

[Philip]

Northern should be looking at acquiring the 175s and then ditching their 156s over the next couple of years, once the former are off lease. They are both of a similar design so it would be a good move for Northern to go for a higher standard and more modern train for the same kind of routes (although some shuffling around). Further electrification and the 195 battery/diesel hybrid units should make up for the remaining 156s to be replaced.

 

[Neptune]

Northern should be looking at acquiring the 175s and then ditching their 156s over the next couple of years, once the former are off lease. They are both of a similar design so it would be a good move for Northern to go for a higher standard and more modern train for the same kind of routes (although some shuffling around). Further electrification and the 195 battery/diesel hybrid units should make up for the remaining 156s to be replaced.

You’re really determined for Northern to take the 175’s and seem to be under the impression it would be a simple quick fix. Can you explain how they are similar to a 156 in engineering terms (other than the manufacturer). That’s before we even get to crew training on these very different units.

 

[adrock1976]

You’re really determined for Northern to take the 175’s and seem to be under the impression it would be a simple quick fix. Can you explain how they are similar to a 156 in engineering terms (other than the manufacturer). That’s before we even get to crew training on these very different units.

Plus there are only 27 Class 175s that were built compared with 114 Class 156s having being built (with 43 presently with Scotrail).

 

[Philip]

You’re really determined for Northern to take the 175’s and seem to be under the impression it would be a simple quick fix. Can you explain how they are similar to a 156 in engineering terms (other than the manufacturer). That’s before we even get to crew training on these very different units.

Any new type of train Northern take on will require crew training and the 156s will need to go within the next decade so this will be a good opportunity to replace them. The design of the 175 is based on the 156 in terms of the bodyshell; and the door arrangement is similar. Mechanically I'm sure they are different but then so will any other train type that replaces the Sprinters.

The 195s are there to replace 150s on the frequent stop services; the 175s would be good for replacing older end door stock on limited stop longer distances.

 

[Neptune]

Any new type of train Northern take on will require crew training and the 156s will need to go within the next decade so this will be a good opportunity to replace them. The design of the 175 is based on the 156 in terms of the bodyshell; and the door arrangement is similar. Mechanically I'm sure they are different but then so will any other train type that replaces the Sprinters.

The 195s are there to replace 150s on the frequent stop services; the 175s would be good for replacing older end door stock on limited stop longer distances.

Except the CAF Civity which makes the most sense for the future of Northern, not a 27 train fleet which used to work up that way many years ago.

The Civites are the ideal train for Northern’s mix of suburban and inter-regional services. The doors at thirds provide better dwell times. We need to get away from the idea that end doors are best for inter-regional services. This is not an Intercity operation.

 

[37424]

If it was decided to cascade the Northern 170 fleet elsewhere where they already have 170's for instance then maybe take the 175's as a replacement and get rid of the 155's while your at it.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a reminder that this thread is for the discussion of EMR class 156s for Northern.

thanks