EMR Class 170 updates

[317 forever]

So, some 170s are coming from ScotRail and the 171s from Southern are apparently due, potentially next year. I wonder where the others are coming from? The short-term ones at TfW are a possibility. I heard a rumour that Cross Country are receiving trains from West Midlands, probably 172s, and will send their 170s to East Midlands.

 

[Domh245]

The West Midlands fleet is going to EMR, but the middle cars of the /6 fleet are going to XC.

 

[fgwrich]

That was a given from the absolute get go. Absolutely no question about it.

The pool of 170s EMR received from ScotRail have interiors that have been relatively untouched since 1998, and are probably the most bombsighted interiors on any UK rolling stock in passenger service at the moment in terms of how it has degraded over time. ScotRail effectively gave up on replacing the interior decor of these few units when Abellio came in, in anticipation of their now botched transfer to convert to 171s for Southern. Thus they weren't penned in for the last round of 170 refurbishments that its subclass (401-424) had been the last to recieve, and have resultantly been rotting away ever since.

Pretty sure there's still old NXSR logos inscribed on them, as well as a mixture of old NX & current Saltire branded flooring, and SPT seat covers that were lying around spare to patch up a few seats here and there.

It's difficult not to agree with you there, although I wouldn't describe them as the most bombsighted interiors - SouthEastern's Networkers certainly can beat that, possibly with GWRs Turbos neck and neck with these 170s. They certainly do retain a good proportion of their old NXScR interiors though including the seats with the rather awful leather patch in.

Although I can understand many peoples re-actions upon seeing one of these 4 170s turn up. Such was my disappointment last summer to end up catching 2 of the things on services which should have been HSTs - One on the Highland Mainline, the other from Glasgow to Perth (where I bailed out for an equally scruffy ex GWR LA15 HST Set).

 

[43096]

So, some 170s are coming from ScotRail and the 171s from Southern are apparently due, potentially next year. I wonder where the others are coming from? The short-term ones at TfW are a possibility. I heard a rumour that Cross Country are receiving trains from West Midlands, probably 172s, and will send their 170s to East Midlands.

The TfW ones are not short-term in Wales, XC are getting 6 170 centre cars from West Mids (not 172s) and XC are not sending any 170s to anyone.

 

[Chrisgr31]

and the 171s from Southern are apparently due, potentially next year.

It will be surprising if they come next year as there is no indication of what is replacing them on the Marshlink and Uckfield Line. Apparently battery hybrids been rejected as they cant run as long enough trains

 

[Murray J]

Realtime Trains - 5Z70 1010 Crofton Depot to Etches Park Sdgs

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

there's a path on friday for another 170 move, this one presumably being 416.

 

[Domh245]

Realtime Trains - 5Z70 1010 Crofton Depot to Etches Park Sdgs

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

there's a path on friday for another 170 move, this one presumably being 416.

It'll be 417. 416 moved a couple of weeks ago to Eastcroft. I'm guessing that as it's going to Etches Park, it'll be the 'familiarisation' unit over there, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was also the first to get the new interior, unless that is being done elsewhere?

 

[Murray J]

It'll be 417. 416 moved a couple of weeks ago to Eastcroft. I'm guessing that as it's going to Etches Park, it'll be the 'familiarisation' unit over there, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was also the first to get the new interior, unless that is being done elsewhere?

ah got the numbers mixed up, yeah it'll be 417 then.

 

[43055]

It'll be 417. 416 moved a couple of weeks ago to Eastcroft. I'm guessing that as it's going to Etches Park, it'll be the 'familiarisation' unit over there, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was also the first to get the new interior, unless that is being done elsewhere?

The mk3s for the short HSTs were done in Derby over the road at the railway technical centre so something simular could be done for the 170s. Could a refurbishment take place with social distance measures in place given that these could be in place for the most part of the year?

 

[OTRail]

The mk3s for the short HSTs were done in Derby over the road at the railway technical centre so something simular could be done for the 170s. Could a refurbishment take place with social distance measures in place given that these could be in place for the most part of the year?

Northern and WMT among others are still refurbishing stock and have been for a while now, so I can imagine it will be possible

 

[Mariner16]

The designs for the 170 refurbs are still ongoing so it will be like 170416

 

[toby_farman]

The designs for the 170 refurbs are still ongoing so it will be like 170416

Overall there will be 40 170s with EMR.
27 2 car units
13 3 car units

Although EMR is getting 12 171s from Southern, only 2 of those were factory built as 171s... The remaining 10 have been converted from 170s and will simply be converted back. The 2 factory built units will be classified as 170s (possibly /8s?).

 

[TheBigD]

Overall there will be 40 170s with EMR.
27 2 car units
13 3 car units

Although EMR is getting 12 171s from Southern, only 2 of those were factory built as 171s... The remaining 10 have been converted from 170s and will simply be converted back. The 2 factory built units will be classified as 170s (possibly /8s?).

Origin plan was for 11 x 3 car and 33 x 2 car, 99 carriages in total. May change depending on 171 cascade though.

5 x 3 car ex Scotrail,
23 x 2 car ex WMR,
6 x 3 car ex Southern,
10 x 2 car ex Southern.

 

[fgwrich]

Origin plan was for 11 x 3 car and 33 x 2 car, 99 carriages in total. May change depending on 171 cascade though.

5 x 3 car ex Scotrail,
23 x 2 car ex WMR,
6 x 3 car ex Southern,
10 x 2 car ex Southern.

Hopefully it will as the Southern Cascade would potentially bring 8 x 4 car units and 12 x 2 car units. 23 x 2 Car units does feel like a rather bonkers idea considering they will be replacing 2 car units with corridor connections.

 

[Fincra5]

Hopefully it will as the Southern Cascade would potentially bring 8 x 4 car units and 12 x 2 car units. 23 x 2 Car units does feel like a rather bonkers idea considering they will be replacing 2 car units with corridor connections.

IF the SN units get sent to EMR, they'll be reformed as 3 cars.

 

[43055]

Northern and WMT among others are still refurbishing stock and have been for a while now, so I can imagine it will be possible

Ah ok. Didn't know they were continuing.

 

[jfowkes]

EMR going a bit overboard with the dramatic music in this unveiling of a 170 at Eastcroft:

https://twitter.com/EastMidRailway/status/1263409197724520448

(sorry it's twitter so can't embed the video directly)

 

[Fincra5]

EMR going a bit overboard with the dramatic music in this unveiling of a 170 at Eastcroft:

https://twitter.com/EastMidRailway/status/1263409197724520448

(sorry it's twitter so can't embed the video directly)

I was thinking the same! A lot for a "new" train!

 

[Energy]

Its very dramatic for a 20 year old train

 

[ChrisC]

Its very dramatic for a 20 year old train

Especially for a 20 year old train which when new used to run in the East Midlands. Then they were removed to run elsewhere and now the East Midlands passengers are getting them back and being told that they are getting new trains.

 

[RailWonderer]

Its very dramatic for a 20 year old train

To be fair the 170s still look very modern, even more so than some of the new rolling stock being introduced. Little has changed in the 387s and the Aventras are hardly a leap forward physically, apart from cab ends. It will impress local pax with short memories and add capacity - I think dramatic music is justified.
Still I don't understand why Scotrail cascaded ~25 of them, I assume it was a DfT directive (someone correct me?).

 

[Energy]

To be fair the 170s still look very modern, even more so than some of the new rolling stock being introduced. Little has changed in the 387s and the Aventras are hardly a leap forward physically, apart from cab ends. It will impress local pax with short memories and add capacity - I think dramatic music is justified.
Still I don't understand why Scotrail cascaded ~25 of them, I assume it was a DfT directive (someone correct me?).

Transport Scotland do Scotrail I think, I also don't understand why they got rid of 25 of them instead of using them to take over from some sprinters.

 

[59CosG95]

Transport Scotland do Scotrail I think, I also don't understand why they got rid of 25 of them instead of using them to take over from some sprinters.

Depot knowledge and route clearance, probably. Class 156s are still the only unit cleared for WHL services, and Class 158s for Kyle of Lochalsh/Far North Line services. Not even sure if 170s can be RETB-equipped.

 

[Energy]

Depot knowledge and route clearance, probably. Class 156s are still the only unit cleared for WHL services, and Class 158s for Kyle of Lochalsh/Far North Line services. Not even sure if 170s can be RETB-equipped.

There are still services which run with 170s and sprinters which could be entirely 170s though.

 

[scotraildriver]

Depot knowledge and route clearance, probably. Class 156s are still the only unit cleared for WHL services, and Class 158s for Kyle of Lochalsh/Far North Line services. Not even sure if 170s can be RETB-equipped.

The original batch 401-424 have an aperture in the cab for RETB and associated wiring. However the wheelbase on 170's is too long for the tight WHL curves. (Top left in this photo)

 

[Neptune]

Anglia railways 170201 - 170208 were built with RETB fitted.

 

[Sprinter107]

The original batch 401-424 have an aperture in the cab for RETB and associated wiring. However the wheelbase on 170's is too long for the tight WHL curves. (Top left in this photo)
View attachment 78300

The /5s and /6s have that same aperture. Theres was for the Cambrian, as they went down there when new.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this thread is to discuss EMR Class 170s

If anyone wishes to discuss anything else please create a new thread (if there isn't one already)

 

[jamesnotts86]

EMR going a bit overboard with the dramatic music in this unveiling of a 170 at Eastcroft:

https://twitter.com/EastMidRailway/status/1263409197724520448

(sorry it's twitter so can't embed the video directly)

I think it's finally nice to see some investment in the regional routes around the East Midlands after so many years. The. 170s may be 20 years old but they still look and feel modern compared to the 153s and 156s.

The video is rather dramatic - if you listen carefully you can hear French railway station announcements in the background towards the end - just after the somewhat 'local' voice "arh new EMR class one-seventeh"!

 

[Speed43125]

The video is rather dramatic - if you listen carefully you can hear French railway station announcements in the background towards the end - just after the somewhat 'local' voice "arh new EMR class one-seventeh"!

Hadn't noticed that! That's intriguing, MML was intended for cross channel freight work afterall (i guess)