EMR Class 170 updates

[Domh245]

By the same token the 170’s will need to be easily identified as 170’s.

It's a lot easier to tell the difference between a 156 and a 170 than it is to remember that any of the 9 ex-GA units (02, 07, 09, 12, 16-19, 22) can't couple to the ex-EMT units (01, 03-06, 08, 10-11, 13015, 70, 73, 97-98)...

 

[Qwerty133]

By the same token the 170’s will need to be easily identified as 170’s.

And the 170 at the start of the number will do that. Outside of the south east it is rare for TOPs codes to be shortened and even then it is usually to 4 rather than 3 digits.

 

[Qwerty133]

It's a lot easier to tell the difference between a 156 and a 170 than it is to remember that any of the 9 ex-GA units (02, 07, 09, 12, 16-19, 22) can't couple to the ex-EMT units (01, 03-06, 08, 10-11, 13015, 70, 73, 97-98)...

Yes if you can't tell that 170416 is a 170 and 156416 is a 156 you probably shouldn't be working on train allocations (or frankly be anything other than a nursery pupil).

 

[Minstral25]

Sorry to correct but its more than 7 miles

About 25 miles I think

 

[Scott1]

Feel free to list them.



By the same token the 170’s will need to be easily identified as 170’s.

It's not quite by the same token. The renumbered 156s are not compatable with the rest of the 156 fleet, but at a glance look the same, the 170s do not. There is little risk of a driver accidently coupling two different looking trains together, but a high risk of coupling a non-compatable 156 to a normal one.

 

[fgwrich]

It's not quite by the same token. The renumbered 156s are not compatable with the rest of the 156 fleet, but at a glance look the same, the 170s do not. There is little risk of a driver accidently coupling two different looking trains together, but a high risk of coupling a non-compatable 156 to a normal one.

Indeed, as there's only 2 170s in the fleet so far and they will be spending most of the next few months on training, I don't think there's any need to worry about their numbers. Equally, these 170s should be compatible with the ex GA156s anyway given the fact they use the same PA system (as GA of course installed into their 156s to work with their 170s).

 

[OTRail]

I suspect the ex ScotRail 170’s, 416 - 420, may be temporarily renumbered as the 156’s at EMR are 1564xx including 156416, 417,418 and 419. That might explain why there’s no number on the front yet.

416 is already numbered though? Pretty sure if they were going to do that they would’ve done that during the repaint...

 

[91108]

It's a lot easier to tell the difference between a 156 and a 170 than it is to remember that any of the 9 ex-GA units (02, 07, 09, 12, 16-19, 22) can't couple to the ex-EMT units (01, 03-06, 08, 10-11, 13015, 70, 73, 97-98)...

Not on the whiteboard in a Shunters cabin, operations office or depot office.

It's not quite by the same token. The renumbered 156s are not compatable with the rest of the 156 fleet, but at a glance look the same, the 170s do not. There is little risk of a driver accidently coupling two different looking trains together, but a high risk of coupling a non-compatable 156 to a normal one.

The 156/9 can be coupled to any of the other EMR 15X’s or 17X, they just can’t be used in service due to having a different pa systems.
My theory about possibly renumbering is that operationally units are often only referenced by their last 3 numbers, therefore whilst 156’s remain on the fleet EMR might temporarily renumber the 170/4’s. I forgot this is more of a spotters forum. I may be wrong, in future I’ll keep my mad lockdown ideas to myself

 

[43096]

Feel free to list them.

LNER: 800101-112 and 801101-112; 800201-210 and 801201-210

TfW: classes 142, 175, 230 and 769 all have 0xx set numbers

Greater Anglia: 317337-348 and 321337-348.

Shall I go on?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Nope - number is applied to lower valances, see pics in this post

Is there any reason for this? I notice the Voyagers have this, but more recently 185s following their refurb.

 

[Neptune]

LNER: 800101-112 and 801101-112; 800201-210 and 801201-210

TfW: classes 142, 175, 230 and 769 all have 0xx set numbers

Greater Anglia: 317337-348 and 321337-348.

Shall I go on?

331001-016 and 333001-016 with Northern.

In fact from 1991 until recently Neville Hill had 158901-903 alongside 321901-903

 

[Neptune]

Not on the whiteboard in a Shunters cabin, operations office or depot office.




The 156/9 can be coupled to any of the other EMR 15X’s or 17X, they just can’t be used in service due to having a different pa systems.
My theory about possibly renumbering is that operationally units are often only referenced by their last 3 numbers, therefore whilst 156’s remain on the fleet EMR might temporarily renumber the 170/4’s. I forgot this is more of a spotters forum. I may be wrong, in future I’ll keep my mad lockdown ideas to myself

At Northern we refer to units by their full 6 digit unit number. This applies at the signing on point and the whiteboard at Holbeck. I believe most companies do that these days.

I’m an employee of the company by the way, not a spotter.

 

[43096]

331001-016 and 333001-016 with Northern.

In fact from 1991 until recently Neville Hill had 158901-903 alongside 321901-903

And until recently the 142s and 144s. You can also add the 195s and, now, 150001/2.

 

[Domh245]

Not on the whiteboard in a Shunters cabin, operations office or depot office.

Then like Neptune has said, you refer to it by the full number - at least for the temporary period whilst both fleets are around. Far easier to write down an extra 3 numbers than the renumbering your permanent fleet twice. Hell, if 3 numbers is too much bother, you can go SR style and have (17)0416 and (15)6416

Is there any reason for this? I notice the Voyagers have this, but more recently 185s following their refurb.

Just up to the TOC's branding. So long as there's a number on the front end somewhere it's compliant with the rules, where the TOCs choose to put it is up to them

 

[Aictos]

So what. I'm sure there are many examples of TOCs operating units with the same final 3 digits in the TOPS code.

LNER: 800101-112 and 801101-112; 800201-210 and 801201-210

TfW: classes 142, 175, 230 and 769 all have 0xx set numbers

Greater Anglia: 317337-348 and 321337-348.

Shall I go on?

Southern have 377111 and Thameslink have 700111 as a example so I can't see what difference it would make if EMR operated 156416 and 170416 as they're both obviously different classes of trains.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Just up to the TOC's branding. So long as there's a number on the front end somewhere it's compliant with the rules, where the TOCs choose to put it is up to them

Thanks. I thought it might have been something to do with trainspotters.

 

[scotraildriver]

Before they transferred to Northern Scotrail had several 170s and 156s with the same last 3 numbers. 156477 170477. 170453 156453 to name a couple. There were plenty more it didn't cause any issues.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

And until recently the 142s and 144s. You can also add the 195s and, now, 150001/2.

I think someone may have been confused by London Midland (as-was) giving their 350s unique digits at the end of each set regardless of sub-class. Though they were the exception rather than the rule really, and that system has gone out the window with the arrival of the /4s from TPE anyway.

 

[sd0733]

The 170/4s EMR are getting wont match numbers with any 156/4s anyway. The 156s in the same range have already been renumbered to 156/9s so there will be no clash whatsoever anyway.

 

[Scott1]

Not on the whiteboard in a Shunters cabin, operations office or depot office.




The 156/9 can be coupled to any of the other EMR 15X’s or 17X, they just can’t be used in service due to having a different pa systems.
My theory about possibly renumbering is that operationally units are often only referenced by their last 3 numbers, therefore whilst 156’s remain on the fleet EMR might temporarily renumber the 170/4’s. I forgot this is more of a spotters forum. I may be wrong, in future I’ll keep my mad lockdown ideas to myself

I'm an employee of a TOC, not a spotter, and whilst I can't speak for other TOCs, mine use the full 6 digits, hence why I'm puzzled how you've concluded renumbering would be easier than using 6 digits on the whiteboard/paper work.

 

[bunnahabhain]

I'd have thought at the very least there was a benefit in using a line worked by all of the depots of drivers who regularly work the services between Nottingham and Derby as these services have traditionally been used to move stock between Etches Park and Eastcroft when maintenance is needed.

That would be Nottingham and a single link at Derby. Lincoln and Norwich drivers don't go West of Trent or North of Nottingham. Boston men stay to the East of Nottingham. It may have changed to go onto the Crewe line first now, as you only need to train all Derby guards, one link of Derby drivers, one link and the spare link at Nottingham, and at the very least link 2 of Nottingham guards.

 

[capital12]

Not on the whiteboard in a Shunters cabin, operations office or depot office.




The 156/9 can be coupled to any of the other EMR 15X’s or 17X, they just can’t be used in service due to having a different pa systems.
My theory about possibly renumbering is that operationally units are often only referenced by their last 3 numbers, therefore whilst 156’s remain on the fleet EMR might temporarily renumber the 170/4’s. I forgot this is more of a spotters forum. I may be wrong, in future I’ll keep my mad lockdown ideas to myself

You sound more like a spotter than most!

So obviously if you’re going to put numbers on temporarily because you’re going to renumber it later, it makes perfect sense to stick on four sets rather than two? Therefore doubling the amount of work you would otherwise had to do!

 

[Energy]

I can't see the problem here, surely most TOCs organise units using the full 6 digit number to avoid confusion?

 

[Aictos]

Before they transferred to Northern Scotrail had several 170s and 156s with the same last 3 numbers. 156477 170477. 170453 156453 to name a couple. There were plenty more it didn't cause any issues.

Govia Thameslink even has Class 387111 in Great Northern branding, Class 700111 in Thameslink branding and 377111 in Southern livery yet I can't see anyone from Fleet getting any of those units confused.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

If there's delays to the Class 171's then hopefully some 158's can be temporarily kept - even they'd be an upgrade from the 153's and 156's!

 

[507021]

Feel free to list them.

Northern:

144+150/0 - 001-002.
144+195/0 - 001-023.
144+331/0 - 001-023.
144+333 - 001-016.
150/1+195/1 - 101-133.
150/1+331/1 - 101-112.
150/2+323 - 222-226 and 228.
153+319 - 378 and 380.
156+170 - 454-455, 459-461 and 475.
156+769 - 424 and 448.
170+769 - 456 and 458.

Even though the 144s are about to be withdrawn, if they haven't been already, there'd still be four different units with 001 and 002 in their TOPS number.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this thread is to discuss EMR Class 170s

 

[Jozhua]

Found this podcast from We Are EMR around the transfer of their new Class 170's:

Looks like they might be coming into service around the December timetable change.

Sounds very much like they will be getting refurbished with new interiors, although some minor rebranding and cleaning will take place in the meantime. This will be good, as it could very well address some of my main criticisms of the units, lack of legroom, seats too low. Hopefully the bathrooms see some TLC as well.

 

[Halish Railway]

This will be good, as it could very well address some of my main criticisms of the units, lack of legroom, seats too low. Hopefully the bathrooms see some TLC as well.

Seeing as EMR’s 170s are coming from a variety of TOCs, it will be interesting to see if there will be a uniform standard. Personally, I find that the ScotRail and Northern examples have perfectly adequate legroom, the ex-Central trains examples are less-so. I also assume that the ex-Southern 171s have a similar seat pitch to the ScotRail examples.

 

[Clansman]

Sounds very much like they will be getting refurbished with new interiors

That was a given from the absolute get go. Absolutely no question about it.

The pool of 170s EMR received from ScotRail have interiors that have been relatively untouched since 1998, and are probably the most bombsighted interiors on any UK rolling stock in passenger service at the moment in terms of how it has degraded over time. ScotRail effectively gave up on replacing the interior decor of these few units when Abellio came in, in anticipation of their now botched transfer to convert to 171s for Southern. Thus they weren't penned in for the last round of 170 refurbishments that its subclass (401-424) had been the last to recieve, and have resultantly been rotting away ever since.

Pretty sure there's still old NXSR logos inscribed on them, as well as a mixture of old NX & current Saltire branded flooring, and SPT seat covers that were lying around spare to patch up a few seats here and there.