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EMR Class 170 updates

Neptune

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How come they aren’t going to be running the Liverpool to Norwich route first? Makes more sense seeing as the 170s used to work that route before the 158s did and the route is in desperate need of a stock upgrade...
158’s were used on these routes long before the 170’s. 170’s worked briefly alongside the 158’s in Central Trains days.
 
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Sprinter107

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170s used to work the Robin Hood line regularly in Central Trains days. 170513 had vinyls for The Robin Hood line.
 

bunnahabhain

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The reason for Robin Hood line first is because all (or nearly all) of the traincrew links at Nottingham have Robin Hood line work. That means more crews get trained and can also maintain traction competence until more sets arrive.

A very sensible way of doing it.
All Senior Conductor depots with the exception of Boston have work over the Robin Hood Line, only Nottingham drivers sign it however. It is a core route and everybody signs it, including all of the Senior Conductor side "flexible working" links.
 

43055

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The reason for Robin Hood line first is because all (or nearly all) of the traincrew links at Nottingham have Robin Hood line work. That means more crews get trained and can also maintain traction competence until more sets arrive.

A very sensible way of doing it.
Certainly is a very sensible way of keeping the knowledge up.
 

JonathanH

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How does traction training work in current circumstances? It can't be possible for a driver and their trainer to be more than two metres apart even in a large cab such as that in a 170.
 

WillPS

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All Senior Conductor depots with the exception of Boston have work over the Robin Hood Line, only Nottingham drivers sign it however. It is a core route and everybody signs it, including all of the Senior Conductor side "flexible working" links.
For many years there was some evening journeys manned by a CrossCountry guard. Has this stopped now?
 

43055

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For many years there was some evening journeys manned by a CrossCountry guard. Has this stopped now?
I'm confused. I'm kinda thinking you are on about central trains days when they were both the same company? I wouldn't imagine this would happen now they are separate.
 

WillPS

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I'm confused. I'm kinda thinking you are on about central trains days when they were both the same company? I wouldn't imagine this would happen now they are separate.
I promise you it did, CrossCountry uniformed guard on East Midlands Trains' Robin Hood Line service. Obviously a hangover from the Central Trains days.

This was definitely still going on in 2009/10, a good few years after the split had occurred.
 

Jozhua

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170's will definitely be an upgrade from the 153/6's. The EMT refurbed 158's are in pretty good nick tho, at least interior wise. Have noticed some reliability issues becoming more common with that fleet on Norwich/Liverpool.

Should probably be looking at plans to replace the 15X's soon, but I'll make that another thread.
 

LowLevel

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I promise you it did, CrossCountry uniformed guard on East Midlands Trains' Robin Hood Line service. Obviously a hangover from the Central Trains days.

This was definitely still going on in 2009/10, a good few years after the split had occurred.

It finished in December 2008 at the timetable change.

When Central Trains was split there was an interim arrangement for one year and a couple of weeks to stop the service from falling to pieces whereby EMT, LM and XC crewed each other's services for a year while the diagrams were unpicked. A few examples were LM Crewe staff working to Derby, EMT Nottingham staff working to Birmingham and XC Leicester staff working to Worksop.
 

Sprinter107

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It finished in December 2008 at the timetable change.

When Central Trains was split there was an interim arrangement for one year and a couple of weeks to stop the service from falling to pieces whereby EMT, LM and XC crewed each other's services for a year while the diagrams were unpicked. A few examples were LM Crewe staff working to Derby, EMT Nottingham staff working to Birmingham and XC Leicester staff working to Worksop.
Worcester guards and drivers worked to Nottingham and Cardiff for Cross Country too, as you say, for one year.
 

anamyd

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How does traction training work in current circumstances? It can't be possible for a driver and their trainer to be more than two metres apart even in a large cab such as that in a 170.
From Transport for Wales 769s page 17 post 509:
craigybagel said:

Amongst other restrictions brought in to cope with this crisis, at present no more then one person is permitted in either cab of a train at any time, except for emergencies obviously. It is therefore impossible to carry out any kind of training, since the instructors aren't allowed to have trainees with them. All trainee drivers and conductors are working from home, and I doubt you'll see any qualified train crew learning new traction any time soon.
 

Roast Veg

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It's likely to make the livery layout match the class 810s, I would expect the 360s (when reliveried) to carry the same.
 

Aictos

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Let's see - need to train crews at both Nottingham and Norwich depots, rather than just Nottingham
No through gangways between units so half the train would have no catering west of Nottingham, same for ticket inspections.
By the time enough 170s/171s have been released to EMR, there won't be a Liverpool - Norwich service anyway because the DfT will have succeeded in splitting the route at Nottingham and the western half will have a different operator.
Choose any or all reasons...

Academic anyway, with the emergency timetable in place.

Also but never mentioned before is they could have split the management of the service like the FCC/South Eastern Sevenoaks services with FCC being responsible north of Blackfriars and SE being responsible south of Blackfriars with SE traincrew learning the route to Bedford and FCC traincrew learning the route to Sevenoaks.

In the case of the Norwich to Liverpool service, they could have EMR responsible for the service East of Nottingham while TPE is responsible West of Nottingham yet to all purposes, it's the same depots covering the service. So in a nutshell, take a service starting from Norwich it's classed as a EMR service to Nottingham then it's classed as a TPE service onto Liverpool.

It's been done before successfully so could be done again.
 

Qwerty133

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All Senior Conductor depots with the exception of Boston have work over the Robin Hood Line, only Nottingham drivers sign it however. It is a core route and everybody signs it, including all of the Senior Conductor side "flexible working" links.
I'd have thought at the very least there was a benefit in using a line worked by all of the depots of drivers who regularly work the services between Nottingham and Derby as these services have traditionally been used to move stock between Etches Park and Eastcroft when maintenance is needed.
 

91108

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I suspect the ex ScotRail 170’s, 416 - 420, may be temporarily renumbered as the 156’s at EMR are 1564xx including 156416, 417,418 and 419. That might explain why there’s no number on the front yet.
 

Qwerty133

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I suspect the ex ScotRail 170’s, 416 - 420, may be temporarily renumbered as the 156’s at EMR are 1564xx including 156416, 417 and 419. That might explain why there’s no number on the front yet.
So what. I'm sure there are many examples of TOCs operating units with the same final 3 digits in the TOPS code.
 

Domh245

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The only reason the 156s were renumbered was because they can't work in multiple with the existing fleet. Renumbering them means it's a lot easier to identify what can and can't work together rather than remembering 9 unit numbers. If they were renumbering them, there's no reason why they wouldn't have left the numbers applied by ScotRail on, rather than replacing it with temporary (on brand!) numbers in a different location!
 

91108

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So what. I'm sure there are many examples of TOCs operating units with the same final 3 digits in the TOPS code.

Feel free to list them.

Renumbering them means it's a lot easier to identify what can and can't work together rather than remembering 9 unit numbers.

By the same token the 170’s will need to be easily identified as 170’s.
 

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