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EMR Class 360's

1D54

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Apologies. I automatically assumed that they didn't as i was on a Luton Airport Parkway - Kettering service on Wednesday and tried unsuccessfully to connect to WiFi so thought there wasn't any. Useful to know in the future so thank you.
 
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D365

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Hopefully they change the lights as well, the lights are still fluorescent when the Meridians have LED (used to be a mixture of CFL and Halogen?) And I think even some of the HSTs had LEDs before they were scrapped.
Most/all MU fleets have a specific workstream to change out the light tubes. It’s not as easy as popping to Toolstation, as they need to be ”railway compliant” and fully documented with mod procedures!
 

Jturner98

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Sorry if this has been covered before but what’s actually the problem with the 360s? In terms of reliability? Is there a common fault they are suffering with? When Siemens maintained them at Ilford they were much more reliable.
 

QSK19

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Sorry if this has been covered before but what’s actually the problem with the 360s?
A mixture of things over the course of their tenure at EMR, several examples being:
- Their poor condition when receiving them from GA;
- EMR’s lack of experience with electric traction;
- Heavy maintenance facilities not being on the MML (units need dragging on non-electrified railway).

Others will no doubt know more than me though.
 

D365

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A mixture of things over the course of their tenure at EMR, several examples being:
- EMR’s lack of experience with electric traction;
I thought that Bedford had always been an electric depot? Or is it the EMR staff that have needed time to acclimatise.
 

Hairy Bear

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I thought that Bedford had always been an electric depot? Or is it the EMR staff that have needed time to acclimatise.
There not EMR staff, there Siemens, always have been. I have posted several times the reasons of the sets unreliability.
 

Railperf

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There not EMR staff, there Siemens, always have been. I have posted several times the reasons of the sets unreliability.
How.much more time do we think EMR need to get a maintenance provision in place that will get these units up to their former reliability level? What is required that they still don't have? Shortage of staff? Shortage of parts? A closer maintenance facility?
 

spotify95

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A mixture of things over the course of their tenure at EMR, several examples being:
- Their poor condition when receiving them from GA;
- EMR’s lack of experience with electric traction;
- Heavy maintenance facilities not being on the MML (units need dragging on non-electrified railway).

Others will no doubt know more than me though.
But if heavy maintenance facilities are not on the MML, how do GTR deal with their Class 700s? Or are their heavy maintenance facilities somewhere between London St Pancras and their southern terminus, which EMR don't have access to?

You rarely hear about GTR not having enough units, but EMR not having 12 out of 21 units available is far too common.
 

43096

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But if heavy maintenance facilities are not on the MML, how do GTR deal with their Class 700s? Or are their heavy maintenance facilities somewhere between London St Pancras and their southern terminus, which EMR don't have access to?

You rarely hear about GTR not having enough units, but EMR not having 12 out of 21 units available is far too common.
The 700s have their major maintenance done in the Siemens facilities at Three Bridges and Hornsey, both away from the MML.
 

QSK19

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But if heavy maintenance facilities are not on the MML, how do GTR deal with their Class 700s? Or are their heavy maintenance facilities somewhere between London St Pancras and their southern terminus, which EMR don't have access to?

You rarely hear about GTR not having enough units, but EMR not having 12 out of 21 units available is far too common.
Without knowing the exact answer, I would presume yes (I remember something about 700 heavy maintenance being done at Three Bridges?). 360s can’t get there under their own power due to lack of 3rd rail ability, of course.

In any case, for any maintenance facilities where the 360s and 700s cross paths, it seems like GTR get priority over EMR.

Hence, when you take everything into account, we have the scenario whereby EMR can’t turn out a relatively small number of 360s, yet the 100+ 700s seem to be very reliable by comparison. No doubt those more au fait with GTR/700s can advise (albeit not appropriate for this thread).
 

swt_passenger

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But if heavy maintenance facilities are not on the MML, how do GTR deal with their Class 700s? Or are their heavy maintenance facilities somewhere between London St Pancras and their southern terminus, which EMR don't have access to?

You rarely hear about GTR not having enough units, but EMR not having 12 out of 21 units available is far too common.
Thameslink units are maintained primarily at Three Bridges, with a secondary depot at Hornsey. They stable at a few more locations. EMR do not have a major maintenance capability on their route, their units get hauled to Northampton.
 

QSK19

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EMR do not have a major maintenance capability on their route, their units get hauled to Northampton.
Just seems a right bodge of a solution considering the 360s could be on their current duties for potentially another 20 years. But they’ll have to make do with it since I doubt a more appropriate facility will be constructed along the MML.
 

1D54

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EMR do not have a major maintenance capability on their route, their units get hauled to Northampton.
There must have been a pile of money spent on the stabling facility at Kettering so why not have them maintained at the place? Hauling to Northampton seems a ridiculous waste of time and money.
 

AM9

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Just seems a right bodge of a solution considering the 360s could be on their current duties for potentially another 20 years. But they’ll have to make do with it since I doubt a more appropriate facility will be constructed along the MML.
Where will the class 810s (when they arrive) be maintained?
 

43066

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There must have been a pile of money spent on the stabling facility at Kettering so why not have them maintained at the place? Hauling to Northampton seems a ridiculous waste of time and money.

KDS is a straightforward four road carriage sidings, with no maintenance capability at all beyond toilet tanking.
 
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D365

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Just seems a right bodge of a solution considering the 360s could be on their current duties for potentially another 20 years. But they’ll have to make do with it since I doubt a more appropriate facility will be constructed along the MML.
East West Rail electrification would simplify movements to/from WCML… at which point it makes sense to use an established Siemens facility.

(alas, beyond the realms of this thread)

Etches Park
Just the one extra shed road!
 

Class15

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East West Rail electrification would simplify movements to/from WCML… at which point it makes sense to use an established Siemens facility.

(alas, beyond the realms of this thread)


Just the one extra shed road!
If the short curve from the MML to the GOBLIN near Junction Road was wired, that would also provide a link to Northampton.
 

AM9

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If the short curve from the MML to the GOBLIN near Junction Road was wired, that would also provide a link to Northampton.
It's been said here many times that the tunnel between Mortimer St. junction and Junction Road junction has very limited clearance and providing sufficient room for OLE of any kind would be very costly.
 

A0wen

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A rather long way round!

Though didn't they take a rather scenic route when they were dragged from Cricklewood to Northampton ? Out to Stratford, back along the Tottenham & Hampstead then Willesden and up the WCML if I recall ?
 

Bald Rick

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Though didn't they take a rather scenic route when they were dragged from Cricklewood to Northampton ? Out to Stratford, back along the Tottenham & Hampstead then Willesden and up the WCML if I recall ?

That would be the usual way to go, yes.
 

spotify95

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Thameslink units are maintained primarily at Three Bridges, with a secondary depot at Hornsey. They stable at a few more locations. EMR do not have a major maintenance capability on their route, their units get hauled to Northampton.
Tha ks everyone for the explanation. Seems far from ideal though, because Three Bridges would be south of St Pancras and therefore not accessible for the 360s. I knew about work being done at Northampton but there's no easy way of getting there - for example, a passenger wanting to travel from Wellingborough (on the MML) to Northampton would have to go via Leicester and Nuneaton, so I assume trains would have to take a similar route (or, as mentioned, going via a London spur). In either case, they can't go via their own traction.

The more concerning thing is, if EMR are keeping the 360s long term (instead of getting more bi-modes like the 80x) then I can't see a way of this situation improving, not whilst major maintenance facilities are not on the MML. I've also not heard of such low reliability figures before - 11 or less out of 21 is not good!
 

Wolfie

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Tha ks everyone for the explanation. Seems far from ideal though, because Three Bridges would be south of St Pancras and therefore not accessible for the 360s. I knew about work being done at Northampton but there's no easy way of getting there - for example, a passenger wanting to travel from Wellingborough (on the MML) to Northampton would have to go via Leicester and Nuneaton, so I assume trains would have to take a similar route (or, as mentioned, going via a London spur). In either case, they can't go via their own traction.

The more concerning thing is, if EMR are keeping the 360s long term (instead of getting more bi-modes like the 80x) then I can't see a way of this situation improving, not whilst major maintenance facilities are not on the MML. I've also not heard of such low reliability figures before - 11 or less out of 21 is not good!
Re your last para l don't believe for one minute that a multi-million pound refit of the 360s has been authorised by DfT and HMT if there is any question over EMR keeping them long term (for which read at least another 15 years).
 

43066

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Re your last para l don't believe for one minute that a multi-million pound refit of the 360s has been authorised by DfT and HMT if there is any question over EMR keeping them long term (for which read at least another 15 years).

Correct!
 

supervc-10

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Though didn't they take a rather scenic route when they were dragged from Cricklewood to Northampton ? Out to Stratford, back along the Tottenham & Hampstead then Willesden and up the WCML if I recall ?
I remember standing on the platform at Camden Road (having been dumped off by a late running Overground service that went express to Willesden Jct) when a 47 came through dragging a shiny purple 360. Made quite a great noise when the driver opened it up!
 

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