EMR Class 360's

Martin222002

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Somewhere I've seen that the plan is to run the 360s in 12 car sets all day. Can anyone confirm this? And also, how many seats (after fitting 2+2 and 2+1 seats) will there be in a 12-car?
From what I'm aware of 12 car triple 360s will only run during the peak and shoulder peak periods of the day in both peak and contra-peak directions, but at swt_passenger says there will be technically enough 360s to run 12 car formations all day if needed. Off peak is a mix of 4 car single and 8 car paires of 360s, with a 5 car 222 working a Corby extension to and from Melton Mowbray, for their 2nd daily London service (slightly off topic I know).

As for seating after they've been refurbished, again I'd go with what swt_passenger has said in that it would likely be something similar to the TPE 350/4 layout. Hopefully it's not long till we see something official about this.
 
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JonathanH

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I've been asleep at the back I know; but, if St Pancras is so length-limited that 800s with specially short coaches are required, how are 12 car 360s acceptable?
The 810 coaches are to be 24 metres against the 26 metres of a 80x coach. A 360 has 20 metre coaches.

12 x 20 = 10 x 24 = 240 metres which is feasible within the available platform length at St Pancras.
 
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Martin222002

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I've been asleep at the back I know; but, if St Pancras is so length-limited that 800s with specially short coaches are required, how are 12 car 360s acceptable?
St Pancras' MML terminating platforms are thankfully long enough for both the 12 car 360s & 10 car 810s which are both come in around 240m in length. If I'm remembering the platforms are 260m long, which while the same as the existing 10 car 80Xs, I don't think is permitted for the safe operating length of the platforms.
 

edwin_m

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St Pancras' MML terminating platforms are thankfully long enough for both the 12 car 360s & 10 car 810s which are both come in around 240m in length. If I'm remembering the platforms are 260m long, which while the same as the existing 10 car 80Xs, I don't think is permitted for the safe operating length of the platforms.
Even if a 10-car would fit with the driver able to see the signal, I expect they want to split and join units at St Pancras, which requires a few more metres.
 

33117

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Looking forward to EMR getting the 360s.

Not the most interesting units but I have always quite liked their boxy lines round the cabs. Plus they make a reasonable noise & are fairly comfy too, siemens built a good unit.
 

MML

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With the proposed delay of EMR Electrics service from Dec 2020 to May 2021, one would hope this would allow the internal refit to commence before revenue service.
Has a unit gone to Brodies at Kilmarnock for the prototype fit already ?
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Looking forward to EMR getting the 360s.

Not the most interesting units but I have always quite liked their boxy lines round the cabs. Plus they make a reasonable noise & are fairly comfy too, siemens built a good unit.
Since when was trains making lots of noise a good thing?
 

samuelmorris

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Since when was trains making lots of noise a good thing?
Rail enthusiasts are an odd bunch :)

That aside, one of the reasons I like 360s is from the inside at least, the lack of noise. Sure the A/C units are very loud but they're just white noise that's easy to blank out and they insulate the noise from the outside very well, as long as you don't have one with squeaky suspension.
 

Mikey C

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With the proposed delay of EMR Electrics service from Dec 2020 to May 2021, one would hope this would allow the internal refit to commence before revenue service.
Has a unit gone to Brodies at Kilmarnock for the prototype fit already ?
Is that where they're going? Couldn't the work be done more locally!
 

Domh245

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Is that where they're going? Couldn't the work be done more locally!
As Brodies won the bid for the work, and their only site is Kilmarnock, no. It is quite plausible that it could have gone to a different supplier who'd have done the work elsewhere, but it didn't
 

py_megapixel

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As Brodies won the bid for the work, and their only site is Kilmarnock, no. It is quite plausible that it could have gone to a different supplier who'd have done the work elsewhere, but it didn't
Oh, what a wonderful work we live in, where rolling stock is sent the length of the country so that work can be carried out by a specific contractor rather than picking one who could carry out the work nearby. Definitely an efficient way of doing things...
 

Domh245

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Oh, what a wonderful work we live in, where rolling stock is sent the length of the country so that work can be carried out by a specific contractor rather than picking one who could carry out the work nearby. Definitely an efficient way of doing things...
If sending it the length of the country is still the best value for money, even with transportation factored in, you'd be daft not to do it.
 

edwin_m

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Oh, what a wonderful work we live in, where rolling stock is sent the length of the country so that work can be carried out by a specific contractor rather than picking one who could carry out the work nearby. Definitely an efficient way of doing things...
There are very few contractors round the country and if there was a distance limit the local ones could charge what they liked. At least it's not being loaded onto four trucks and taken by road (or is it? I was thinking of Wolverton).
 

Domh245

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There are very few contractors round the country and if there was a distance limit the local ones could charge what they liked. At least it's not being loaded onto four trucks and taken by road (or is it? I was thinking of Wolverton).
Someone did report seeing a carriage on the back of a lowloader, so at the very least the first unit has gone by road
 

43096

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Oh, what a wonderful work we live in, where rolling stock is sent the length of the country so that work can be carried out by a specific contractor rather than picking one who could carry out the work nearby. Definitely an efficient way of doing things...
What's your proposal for getting best value for the work if you follow that basis?

It's certainly not unique to the UK sending things long distances for overhaul. DB will send diesel locos from Munich up to Bremen for overhaul, or send electric locos from Mannheim to Dessau for works attention.
 

Mikey C

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What's your proposal for getting best value for the work if you follow that basis?

It's certainly not unique to the UK sending things long distances for overhaul. DB will send diesel locos from Munich up to Bremen for overhaul, or send electric locos from Mannheim to Dessau for works attention.
Those might be where they have specific technical skills, whereas with the 360s it's just a new interior

It just seems bizarre that even with the cost of transporting the units hundreds of miles, Brodies still worked out cheaper.
 

py_megapixel

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Those might be where they have specific technical skills, whereas with the 360s it's just a new interior

It just seems bizarre that even with the cost of transporting the units hundreds of miles, Brodies still worked out cheaper.
Exactly.
It doesn't bode well for the quality of the work they'll be doing.

Of course we don't know that they went for the lowest bidder; it's possible, though not likely, that there was another reason.
 

fgwrich

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It’s somewhat balanced out by stuff coming down to Eastleigh from Scotland...
Or ScotRail 156s heading to Landore.
Exactly.
It doesn't bode well for the quality of the work they'll be doing.

Of course we don't know that they went for the lowest bidder; it's possible, though not likely, that there was another reason.
Wow, quite a sweeping statement there in the “It doesn’t bode well for the quality of the work they’ll be doing” statement. As explained, it will come down to whomever bids whatever price for the work. They might have been the most expensive bidder for all we know, but as mentioned Brodie’s do a lot of work already for Abellio (HST Overhaul, 334 refurbishment, SCR 156 & 153 conversions for ScotRail, PRM modifications for GA etc) so that may have been a factor in Abellio’s decision making. As ScotRail have also learnt, using your most local of bidders doesn’t always work or produce a quality finish either, for example the appalling quality of work carried out by Knorr-Bremse / Gemini Rail Services at Springburn on the 156 fleet, or Wabtec’s promises of completing the ScotRail Mk3s at Kilmarnock etc.

And yes, I did post a few posts back up that a 360 had been taken by road to Kilmarnock. The 360 is identified in my post (360116) and was sat in 4 individual coaches in their yard last week. That could be because it was cheaper by road, because 360s are not cleared to Kilmarnock or because the unitmay have a fault - it is not one that has been to Northampton yet.
 

fgwrich

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Was it Brodies who did the front end repairs to some SWT Desiro driving cars after incidents with trees a few years ago?
I think they did do some of those repairs as well, they've also carried out various repairs to the London Midland 350 Fleet over the years so are certainly no strangers to working on the Desiro fleet.

Brodies certainly have done well for themselves over the years, so perhaps it's little wonder why they have become the more dominant of the two rail business located in the town. Certainly two of their biggest projects has been the total refurbishment / rebuilding of several former Irish Rail Mk3s to become Belmond's The Grand Hibernian Pullman, and the rather miraculous repair and return to service of the flood damaged (and written off) 156478.

 

43096

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DBS92042

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After an issue last week which saw the moves from/to Northampton cancelled, 5Q60 to Ilford has run today, presumably with 360106 in the formation.

There is a corresponding move from Ilford in for tomorrow: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K63104/2020-08-02/detailed
I can confirm it was 360106. 47727 & 47739 taking it back
 

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