EMR 'HST Safety' advice to passengers

Roast Veg

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Presumably in direct response to the RAIB advice given for the tragic incident on board a 442 amongst others, combined with the fact that more HSTs are due to arrive onto the MML, East Midlands Railway appear to have begun a campaign urging passengers to keep windows closed at all times while High Speed Trains are in motion.

Although they claim that it is for "comfort and safety", I suspect the comfort aspect is something of an afterthought. Announcements are being made on trains, and video advertisements are being shown at MML stations.

(Apologies if there is an existing thread)
 
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Bletchleyite

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It's clearly primilarly safety, but a gale through the coach does adversely affect the operation of the heating (in winter) and aircon (in summer) to be fair to them. When I've got off a slamdoor coach I usually close the window and door and always have.
 

Journeyman

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The opening windows and slam doors were, of course, the HST's biggest design flaw, and the one feature that has made them seriously unsuitable for continued operation. ScotRail undertook a major publicity campaign when the "classics" were introduced, because slam door trains in Scotland have been so rare for a long time, and people aren't familiar with them. Primarily, though, the 442 incident is what's driven this - I'm involved with a heritage railway that immediately audited its on-train signage, and undertook a lineside obstructions and vegetation survey following the RAIB recommendations.
 

Bletchleyite

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The opening windows and slam doors were, of course, the HST's biggest design flaw, and the one feature that has made them seriously unsuitable for continued operation. ScotRail undertook a major publicity campaign when the "classics" were introduced, because slam door trains in Scotland have been so rare for a long time, and people aren't familiar with them. Primarily, though, the 442 incident is what's driven this - I'm involved with a heritage railway that immediately audited its on-train signage, and undertook a lineside obstructions and vegetation survey following the RAIB recommendations.
Such a pity the 442 style power doors were not fitted - they could have been as they were to the Irish Mk3s.
 

Journeyman

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Such a pity the 442 style power doors were not fitted - they could have been as they were to the Irish Mk3s.
It would certainly save us a whole heap of trouble now! It's a shame BR never designed some sort of power door for the HST, although I suppose there were economies of scale in using the same design as loco-hauled Mark 3s. These, of course, had to be backwards-compatible with Mark 1 and 2 vehicles.
 

cf111

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I did notice that the warning signs on the doors were much more obvious on the last LNER HST I travelled on.
 

87electric

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The fatal incident with HST stock last December near Bath with a passenger with head out the window is probably the more the reason for safety advice. Busy Christmas period and standing in vestibules.
 

edwin_m

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The fatal incident with HST stock last December near Bath with a passenger with head out the window is probably the more the reason for safety advice. Busy Christmas period and standing in vestibules.
Not to mention the possibility of inebriation: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5da5d858e5274a392e9c9467/R142019_191016_Twerton.pdf
The toxicology report concluded that the passenger’s blood contained 142 milligrams of ethanol per 100 millilitres. This is nearly twice the UK legal driving limit of 80 milligrams in 100 millilitres of blood. It is generally recognised that this would cause a level of intoxication in the average social drinker which may affect their co-ordination and judgement. However, the actual effect on the passenger involved is unknown.
It would certainly save us a whole heap of trouble now! It's a shame BR never designed some sort of power door for the HST, although I suppose there were economies of scale in using the same design as loco-hauled Mark 3s. These, of course, had to be backwards-compatible with Mark 1 and 2 vehicles.
They could have got over that compatibility issue if there had been a will to. Most Mk3s ran in fixed formations with only Mk1 BGs (no passenger access) and catering cars (where the doors could have been made emergency only and through wiring fitted for power operation of the Mk3s). I think it was more a case of having always done things that way and/or having to justify the extra spend.
 

tsr

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It would certainly save us a whole heap of trouble now! It's a shame BR never designed some sort of power door for the HST, although I suppose there were economies of scale in using the same design as loco-hauled Mark 3s. These, of course, had to be backwards-compatible with Mark 1 and 2 vehicles.
It would probably have been at the expense of reliability. The 442 doors have caused a fair few issues over time. They’re also very slow - adding at least 10 seconds onto any dispatch procedure.
 

Bletchleyite

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Not to mention the possibility of inebriation: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5da5d858e5274a392e9c9467/R142019_191016_Twerton.pdf


They could have got over that compatibility issue if there had been a will to. Most Mk3s ran in fixed formations with only Mk1 BGs (no passenger access) and catering cars (where the doors could have been made emergency only and through wiring fitted for power operation of the Mk3s). I think it was more a case of having always done things that way and/or having to justify the extra spend.
Or they could have used UIC door blocking and just automatically turned the open button off above 5km/h.
 

RealTrains07

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It would certainly save us a whole heap of trouble now! It's a shame BR never designed some sort of power door for the HST, although I suppose there were economies of scale in using the same design as loco-hauled Mark 3s. These, of course, had to be backwards-compatible with Mark 1 and 2 vehicles.
At least the HSTs that survive are getting power doors now
 

edwin_m

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It would probably have been at the expense of reliability. The 442 doors have caused a fair few issues over time. They’re also very slow - adding at least 10 seconds onto any dispatch procedure.
The need for staff to close doors manually when passengers don't do so probably increases dwell times more than that. Perhaps not on commuter routes where most passengers are "trained", but definitely on intercity.
 

43096

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Not to mention the possibility of inebriation: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5da5d858e5274a392e9c9467/R142019_191016_Twerton.pdf


They could have got over that compatibility issue if there had been a will to. Most Mk3s ran in fixed formations with only Mk1 BGs (no passenger access) and catering cars (where the doors could have been made emergency only and through wiring fitted for power operation of the Mk3s). I think it was more a case of having always done things that way and/or having to justify the extra spend.
We’ve been over this before. Before the mid-1980s when InterCity introduced fixed formation sets, Mark 3s ran daily in mixed sets with Mark 2s and Mark 1s.
 

43096

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In any case, doesn't the Mk3 CDL run via multiplexing (TDM) over the lighting circuit? Or is that just the loco remote control?
The CDL uses separate jumper cables which were fitted when CDL was fitted in the 1990s. The TDM uses the train lighting RCH jumpers, which also carry the PA.
 

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