East Midlands Railway short formed services

[Failed Unit]

No 170s in traffic today apparently for some reason, not sure why.

I wonder if by co-incidence they are nearly able to run the full time-table? (with the exception of a few failed units) - I know the short forms don't help of course.

 

[londonmidland]

Another day, another short form. 1R64 0755 Norwich to Liverpool Lime Street full and standing from Chesterfield.

Update: people left behind on the platform at Sheffield.

 

[Killingworth]

Update: people left behind on the platform at Sheffield.

And TPE back to 3 car on several South Pennine trains today.

 

[yorksrob]

It really doesn't surprise me that this is happening.

The really frustrating thing is government is going to complain that "ridership is poor" nationwide, despite it being very high % of capacity for places like the Midlands and North. Cuts will be done nationally, not taking into account how these services are already overcrowded, despite not even being fully out of lockdown.

Yes, I can well imagine some civil servant in London thinking "my train in surrey is a bit empty these days. It must be the same everywhere".

 

[MikeWM]

I've just come off an East Midlands Rover last Week and can confirm it really is just random as to what turns up on the Reigonals. Don't think I saw a single 170 on Crewe/North Staffs all of the 3 days all 156/158. Didn't have a problem with crowding on any trains bar one (a 158 on a Norwich on Friday afternoon was reasonably loaded but not to a 'concerning' degree)

I'd agree - I was doing that same rover the same week (the week before half-term), and the rolling stock that showed up seemed rather random on most lines.

Despite fairly extensive travel on EMR over the week, I didn't see any particular issues with cancellations or late-running (except on the Robin Hood line) or massive overcrowding - until the bank holiday Saturday - though, so it seems rather odd that things appear to have got into a rather poor state since. It certainly didn't feel like a 2018-style GTR/TPE meltdown was happening.

 

[Llandudno]

Another day, another short form. 1R64 0755 Norwich to Liverpool Lime Street full and standing from Chesterfield.

I suppose the Chesterfield to Sheffield situation is not helped by XC not calling at Chesterfield for most of the day...

 

[K13R0N]

Interesting to note that 2L86, the 2200 Cleethorpes to Nottingham is formed of 6 coaches tonight. 2 could potentially be 153s returning to Eastcroft but the other four? Bit odd to have four on one of the Lincolnshire services this late in the day when the Norwich - Notts/Liverpool services have struggled with capacity

 

[LowLevel]

Interesting to note that 2L86, the 2200 Cleethorpes to Nottingham is formed of 6 coaches tonight. 2 could potentially be 153s returning to Eastcroft but the other four? Bit odd to have four on one of the Lincolnshire services this late in the day when the Norwich - Notts/Liverpool services have struggled with capacity

Not really, the late services between Lincoln and Nottingham are often formed of up to 6 coaches to transfer units between the depots at Nottingham and Derby and the "hub" of the Lincs services at Lincoln. It is normally booked a 156 from Cleethorpes to Lincoln coupling to a 170 off the 2231 arrival from Leicester, tonight the units are unbalanced so it will be formed of 158783 from Cleethorpes, attaching to 158847 and 158865 at Lincoln which will have arrived from Nottingham and Newark Northgate, giving 6 coaches in total.

In practice only 1 coach will be in use as the train doesn't fit in any of the platforms apart from at Lincoln and Nottingham.

 

[js1000]

After using EMR regional services between Nottingham and Manchester/Liverpool over the past 3-4 weeks, I have noticed that there have been short formed services, which seem to be happening more and more often.

It seems around half of the services are only formed of 2 coaches. Mostly run by 158s. The train I am on now (1R70) 13:45 Nottingham to Liverpool Lime Street is full and standing, as it is only a 2 coach train.

So it begs the question, why are short forms becoming increasingly more common across this route? Do the 170s fail regularly, which requires short notice set swaps?

My colleague who commutes from Warrington to Manchester said this to me a few weeks ago. Thankfully Northern are back operating the express route from Liverpool to Manchester today. Hopefully that should force EMR into gear.

Any service that is "cosy" is not good in this climate due to Covid and passengers will look for an alternative service if available.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Any service that is "cosy" is not good in this climate due to Covid and passengers will look for an alternative service if available.

They tend to cram themselves on come what may when it's busy, I've seen trains with 180+ passengers on a two car unit with more still wanting to join. You'll get the usual complaints on twitter and the occasional face to face, but most seem to just put up with it, even now.

 

[Jozhua]

I'm not looking forward to my trip to Nottingham tomorrow

 

[dk1]

I'm not looking forward to my trip to Nottingham tomorrow

You might be surprised and it all goes perfectly. Think of it as an adventure

 

[MCR247]

Looking at the EMR website, lots of short forming on Liverpool - Norwich and Skegness and Robin Hood lines

 

[Failed Unit]

Looking at the EMR website, lots of short forming on Liverpool - Norwich and Skegness and Robin Hood lines

Suspect it is only really an issue on the Liverpool route now the schools are back (but needs sorting by July). They need to send Grant up. Just because trains are carting fresh air around in the SouthEast doesn’t mean they are everywhere.…

 

[londonmidland]

Several cancellations across the EMR regional network again today.

For some reason, morning services seem to be okay, but anything in the afternoon and evening seem to be affected.

 

[dk1]

Several cancellations across the EMR regional network again today.

For some reason, morning services seem to be okay, but anything in the afternoon and evening seem to be affected.

Nobody likes working Saturday lates. Won’t get many volunteers for those open turns.

 

[Wolfie]

Yes, I can well imagine some civil servant in London thinking "my train in surrey is a bit empty these days. It must be the same everywhere".

I have never worked in DfT but have been a civil servant since the 1980s. Policy proposals are based on data-based evidence not on the sort of "gut feel" or personal experience that you cite.

 

[Kite159]

I did notice the Robin Hood line pretty much fell apart after 14;25 with large gaps.

Good number of passengers at Hucknall when I alighted around 16;30, I would imagine that 156 would have been very busy heading back

 

[josla1]

EMR downed tools on Liverpool-Norwich circa 15:30 this afternoon. Nothing after 15:38 ran to Liverpool from Picc and last one to Notts was 17:42. Every service that ran today was short formed to 2 coaches.

 

[43055]

I did notice the Robin Hood line pretty much fell apart after 14;25 with large gaps.

Good number of passengers at Hucknall when I alighted around 16;30, I would imagine that 156 would have been very busy heading back

Looking at RTT the Worksops had some hour gaps at that time as it looks like two diagrams were missing. After 1539 Worksop only got 2 more departures.

EMR downed tools on Liverpool-Norwich circa 15:30 this afternoon. Nothing after 15:38 ran to Liverpool from Picc and last one to Notts was 17:42. Every service that ran today was short formed to 2 coaches.

Probably the best option as the route has alternative services by northern and TPE and then thencrew can be used on other routes. All routes had some cancellations. The Robin Hood seemed to be the next worst by only having a 1 train shuttle instead of the normall 4 units from around 1530. Leicester - Lincoln also had 2 convective cancellations.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Looking at RTT the Worksops had some hour gaps at that time as it looks like two diagrams were missing. After 1539 Worksop only got 2 more departures.


Probably the best option as the route has alternative services by northern and TPE and then thencrew can be used on other routes. All routes had some cancellations. The Robin Hood seemed to be the next worst by only having a 1 train shuttle instead of the normall 4 units from around 1530. Leicester - Lincoln also had 2 convective cancellations.

Leicester's were still a better showing than 2 Saturdays ago when there was one journey in an 8 hour period!

 

[aoa123]

Just got on the 6.35 from Nottm to Liverpool to do a couple of days hiking in the peaks. Arrived from Eastcroft not just short formed but filthy and uncleaned...

 

[Wolfie]

Just got on the 6.35 from Nottm to Liverpool to do a couple of days hiking in the peaks. Arrived from Eastcroft not just short formed but filthy and uncleaned...

So much for the much vaunted additional cleaning for COVID.

 

[Llandudno]

Just got on the 6.35 from Nottm to Liverpool to do a couple of days hiking in the peaks. Arrived from Eastcroft not just short formed but filthy and uncleaned...

Perhaps the cleaners are being ‘trained’ to clean 170s!

 

[dk1]

So much for the much vaunted additional cleaning for COVID.

Just one that slipped through the net. Happens from time to time.

 

[WesternLancer]

So much for the much vaunted additional cleaning for COVID.

Yep, was on a 156 to Matlock yesterday - impressed to see an onboard cleaner the whole trip, but then I noticed all he really did was walk up and down the unit as far as I could see. During course of journey table seat opposite me 'changed hands' 3 times, with gaps in occupancy in between, with cleaning spray in hand the chap walked past it several times and missed the chance of giving it a wipe at any time. Never wiped any seat back handles either. A wasted resource as far as I could see, I am sorry to say.

But not always so - a few weeks ago I was on a London bound EMR service and an on board cleaner was persistently walking u and down spraying touch points and seat back handles / tables as she went along.

 

[SteveyBee131]

Yep, was on a 156 to Matlock yesterday - impressed to see an onboard cleaner the whole trip, but then I noticed all he really did was walk up and down the unit as far as I could see. During course of journey table seat opposite me 'changed hands' 3 times, with gaps in occupancy in between, with cleaning spray in hand the chap walked past it several times and missed the chance of giving it a wipe at any time. Never wiped any seat back handles either. A wasted resource as far as I could see, I am sorry to say.

But not always so - a few weeks ago I was on a London bound EMR service and an on board cleaner was persistently walking u and down spraying touch points and seat back handles / tables as she went along.

It's really annoying, but there are ones out there that think nobody notices and so they get away with getting paid for doing not much! Even when it involves people's safety

 

[Mariner16]

Just got on the 6.35 from Nottm to Liverpool to do a couple of days hiking in the peaks. Arrived from Eastcroft not just short formed but filthy and uncleaned...

Not every road at the depot is accessible to cleaners

 

[Robertj21a]

Not every road at the depot is accessible to cleaners

So how do they normally clean them?

 

[bunnahabhain]

So how do they normally clean them?

The night cleaners are based at the station from around 2100 onwards and usually see to units as they arrive and before they head down to Eastcroft. If the service is disrupted the day before it is possible that the time may not have been available for a proper clean between the unit arriving, going for fuelling and exams, and then returning to the station.