EMR timetable change 26th October

[43055]

EMR have announced this afternoon a reduction of services on the regional side from Monday which mostly affects routes out of Nottingham. This is because of a number of a number of cancelations in recent weeks due to a shortage of staff although it looks like there is no change to the weekend timetables which Saturdays would have a similar level of service.

Routes affected:
Liverpool - Norwich: Some trains canceled throughout and some will start/terminate at Nottingham.
Lincoln - Leicester: Some trains canceled throughout and some will start/terminate at Nottingham.
Grimsby - Newark: 1 lunchtime trip cancelled between Lincoln and Grimsby and return.
Peterborough- Lincoln: 2 return trips cancelled and 1 Lincoln - Sleaford service.
Nottingham - Skegness: 1345 ex Nottingham and 1611 ex Skegness cancelled.
Newark - Matlock: Reduced to a largely 2 hourly service off peak.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Looks like only one gap in the Liverpool end but it's the 13:40 from Manchester Piccadilly which is the worst hour to omit as there is no 13:18 TPE to Sheffield and beyond either! Of all the hours!!

At least, if you're going to do a day trip from Manchester/Stockport to Sheffield and beyond you're unlikely to (not) aet off until lunchtime - you'll likely make the outbound in the morning.

Off topic but why are my bold/italic/emojis all greyed out? I have logged out and logged back in several times so it's definitely not my browser and it all worked fine until yesterday.

 

[swt_passenger]

...Off topic but why are my bold/italic/emojis all greyed out? I have logged out and logged back in several times so it's definitely not my browser and it all worked fine until yesterday.

I think you’ve possibly toggled them off accidentally - the far right hand “gear” does it...

 

[bunnahabhain]

170 training doesn't take place on a Saturday and Sunday so drivers are at much less of a premium.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I think you’ve possibly toggled them off accidentally - the far right hand “gear” does it...

It lives again thanks for the tip!

 

[jonnyfan]

Looks like only one gap in the Liverpool end but it's the 13:40 from Manchester Piccadilly which is the worst hour to omit as there is no 13:18 TPE to Sheffield and beyond either! Of all the hours!!

At least, if you're going to do a day trip from Manchester/Stockport to Sheffield and beyond you're unlikely to (not) aet off until lunchtime - you'll likely make the outbound in the morning.

Off topic but why are my bold/italic/emojis all greyed out? I have logged out and logged back in several times so it's definitely not my browser and it all worked fine until yesterday.

Oh fantastic! And the 1349 Northern departure to Sheffield is only booked as a 2-car 195

 

[Qwerty133]

170 training doesn't take place on a Saturday and Sunday so drivers are at much less of a premium.

If that is the major reason for the shortage it would make sense to delay the training by a week in order to protect the half term services on the Matlock and Skegness lines. EMR have completely lost the plot if they think reducing capacity on what are largely leisure lines during half term week is a good idea, if services had to be cut before the end of half term it would have made more sense to cut peak services between Liverpool and Sheffield, as well as services on lines that have lower levels of leisure travel such as Derby to Crewe.

 

[bunnahabhain]

If that is the major reason for the shortage it would make sense to delay the training by a week in order to protect the half term services on the Matlock and Skegness lines. EMR have completely lost the plot if they think reducing capacity on what are largely leisure lines during half term week is a good idea, if services had to be cut before the end of half term it would have made more sense to cut peak services between Liverpool and Sheffield, as well as services on lines that have lower levels of leisure travel such as Derby to Crewe.

It isn't a major reason, but it will be contributing. The real reason is multifaceted and Covid is the main cause by and large. Training can't really be stopped without causing many other issues, for example the first 170 diagram starts in little over a week.

 

[Qwerty133]

It isn't a major reason, but it will be contributing. The real reason is multifaceted and Covid is the main cause by and large. Training can't really be stopped without causing many other issues, for example the first 170 diagram starts in little over a week.

If the training schedule is so tight that a 5 day pause would be enough to cause major issues with the introduction of the 170s I would suggest that given the covid situation it isn't appropriate for them to be introduced into service quite yet as this would essentially be asking for further problems with regards to last minute unavailability of trained staff and that a short delay, of a fortnight to a month, to their introduction will be beneficial in multiple ways both in terms of maintaining services during half term (and for the last few days those in Nottingham are likely to be permitted to make non essential journeys) and in ensuring the availability of trained crew for the 170s following their introduction.
The week after half term also sees a natural large decline in the number of users on the matlock branch and Skegness services as many businesses shut for the winter following half term meaning people have fewer reasons to visit.

 

[bunnahabhain]

If the training schedule is so tight that a 5 day pause would be enough to cause major issues with the introduction of the 170s I would suggest that given the covid situation it isn't appropriate for them to be introduced into service quite yet as this would essentially be asking for further problems with regards to last minute unavailability of trained staff and that a short delay, of a fortnight to a month, to their introduction will be beneficial in multiple ways both in terms of maintaining services during half term (and for the last few days those in Nottingham are likely to be permitted to make non essential journeys) and in ensuring the availability of trained crew for the 170s following their introduction.
The week after half term also sees a natural large decline in the number of users on the matlock branch and Skegness services as many businesses shut for the winter following half term meaning people have fewer reasons to visit.

But there's already a large decline in those travelling that it isn't really a huge issue. This wouldn't really be a problem if the services hadn't all been reintroduced and the services no longer running from next week hadn't been reinstated in the first place? A 5 day pause would still require a rather large amount of cancellations, the problems are not entirely Nottingham related as all depots are having work removed to provide a stable and reliable service over the entire network. EG to cover a Norwich turn requires a minimum of 2 Nottingham based members of staff.

 

[Qwerty133]

But there's already a large decline in those travelling that it isn't really a huge issue. This wouldn't really be a problem if the services hadn't all been reintroduced and the services no longer running from next week hadn't been reinstated in the first place? A 5 day pause would still require a rather large amount of cancellations, the problems are not entirely Nottingham related as all depots are having work removed to provide a stable and reliable service over the entire network. EG to cover a Norwich turn requires a minimum of 2 Nottingham based members of staff.

If EMR seriously think they can rely on weekday term time loadings to judge half term loadings on lines that have multiple family days out they are in for a shock on Monday. There have been threads suggesting that the lines in question have already been suffering with overcrowding at weekends based upon the current timetable so to think they can get away with reducing the service on days that are effectively Saturdays in terms of passenger numbers shows a lack of understanding. If it takes multiple staff to cover Norwich turns don't even try and cover them as a whole when they are uncovered and focus on the parts in the core network that would be easier to cover. Similarly considering Sheffield to Liverpool is essentially all going to be in tier 3 as of midnight and that this route is entirely served by other operators it makes sense to focus any cancellations that do have to happen on this route.

 

[bunnahabhain]

If EMR seriously think they can rely on weekday term time loadings to judge half term loadings on lines that have multiple family days out they are in for a shock on Monday. There have been threads suggesting that the lines in question have already been suffering with overcrowding at weekends based upon the current timetable so to think they can get away with reducing the service on days that are effectively Saturdays in terms of passenger numbers shows a lack of understanding. If it takes multiple staff to cover Norwich turns don't even try and cover them as a whole when they are uncovered and focus on the parts in the core network that would be easier to cover. Similarly considering Sheffield to Liverpool is essentially all going to be in tier 3 as of midnight and that this route is entirely served by other operators it makes sense to focus any cancellations that do have to happen on this route.

Well, it's unlikely to change, and I've no idea what they think.

 

[High Dyke]

But there's already a large decline in those travelling that it isn't really a huge issue. This wouldn't really be a problem if the services hadn't all been reintroduced and the services no longer running from next week hadn't been reinstated in the first place? A 5 day pause would still require a rather large amount of cancellations, the problems are not entirely Nottingham related as all depots are having work removed to provide a stable and reliable service over the entire network. EG to cover a Norwich turn requires a minimum of 2 Nottingham based members of staff.

Indeed. A week or so ago there were short notice cancellations on a number of routes due to staff shortages.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Indeed. A week or so ago there were short notice cancellations on a number of routes due to staff shortages.

Quite, I think people travelling to Matlock and Skegness would be far happier knowing when a train is definitely going to run rather than turning up and the next two are cancelled leaving them with a 3hr wait.

 

[High Dyke]

The OH was moaning this morning about a Grimsby going by the wayside - when she has a trainee with her.

I accept this may only be a temporary thing at the moment. However, it doesn't bode well for the increase in local services that were expected across many routes. Network Rail have already committed themselves to a re-org of signallers to accommodate longer box opening times from January 2021. This has also seen a number of new vacancies, of which some have been filled by people using these forums.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Are these being reinstated at the December timetable change?

 

[43055]

Are these being reinstated at the December timetable change?

Looks like they are.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Looks like they are.

Looks like the 13:44 from Piccadilly (12:50 from Liverpool?) isn't there for tomorrow but that's the only gap. At least TPE have reinstated their 13:18 from Manchester and it's booked 6-car so an overall improvement.

 

[Tomnick]

Looks like the 13:44 from Piccadilly (12:50 from Liverpool?) isn't there for tomorrow but that's the only gap. At least TPE have reinstated their 13:18 from Manchester and it's booked 6-car so an overall improvement.

Also the 19:51 off Liverpool (which would be the 16:47 off Notts, which is running between Grantham and Nottingham only).