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EMT crew(e) depot

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Mojo

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XC taxi crews daily between Plymouth and Penzance AFAIK. That is a fair distance and time. Two Voyager units stable overnight on Long Rock depot, but XC do not have crew based at Penzance.
Also on XC, shortly after the start of the franchise change, a mini-depot of Senior Conductors were created at Bristol to operate trains on the Birmingham to Cardiff route. Many staff were driven over to Cardiff on taxis in the early mornings, and even during the day travelled pass on FGW trains (usually from Newport). As Senior Conductors, they do not operate the Voyagers/HSTs which run through Bristol, so there is a significant amount of dead time at the start and end of every duty. Not sure if this is still the case, it’s a few years since I stopped working on the route and I’ve since lost contact with the staff.
 
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DanTrain

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So 1-2 hours drive before maybe 9-10 hours of safety critical duties is impractical.
That is a very good point actually, it would have to reduce the length of their shifts. I suspect that blows this idea out the water even before business insurace etc is considered!
 

craigybagel

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I'm sure there are plenty of traincrew who'd rather drive themselves then subject themselves to the somewhat hit and miss nature of taxi services but it could never be made official.
 

whoosh

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Derby also have extremely unsocial hours turns involving a taxi journey to Neville Hill depot in Leeds (an hour and a half ride) on earlies, and the other direction at the end of the day.

Hull Trains used to have (probably still do) a driver sent in a taxi to Crofton (also near Leeds) to pick up a unit.

Trans Pennine used to have (maybe still do) taxis between York and Newcastle.


All of those were/are normal workings, not due to engineering work when taxis can be used for all sorts of journeys.
 

craigybagel

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My understanding was that BR had got rid of lodging turns (apart from sleeping-car attendants) and they were only reintroduced after privatisation. I'm certain there were none when I was Traincrew Programming (as it was called then) at Crewe in the late 1970s.
What BR did have was single depots that had appropriate traction and route knowledge and the flexibilty to reallocate crews between different train services as needed. If it still couldn't be made to work a conductor driver or guard would be requested for the bit of track that the originating depot couldn't cover.

One thing I was wondering about from reading this thread - how many lodge turns still exist on the passenger railway today? East Coast at Inverness for drivers (and guards too presumably? I don't think they have a small depot there like they do at Aberdeen?) and various locations for Sleeper customer service staff - but are there any others?
 

Mojo

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That is a very good point actually, it would have to reduce the length of their shifts. I suspect that blows this idea out the water even before business insurace etc is considered!
Also, it depends where the duty would finish; if Traincrew are expected to drive their own car from their booking on location to a remote location, then they would also have to end up finishing there, meaning you’ve lost twice as much time as a taxi, because not only would they have to drive from their home location to Crewe, then they would have to drive back, whereas if they’re working a train they can just book off at their home location and then be finished.
 

Triumph

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One thing I was wondering about from reading this thread - how many lodge turns still exist on the passenger railway today? East Coast at Inverness for drivers (and guards too presumably? I don't think they have a small depot there like they do at Aberdeen?) and various locations for Sleeper customer service staff - but are there any others?
Newcastle crews lodge at Inverness after working down then change over with a crew that works to Aberdeen and work back up from there.
 

Class 170101

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It does make one wonder how much could be saved if certain operators drove other operators trains rather than the operator that owned the service and how on track capacity could be released if certain ECS moves were as a result removed from the timetable. Additionally it could add extra services for passengers if other depots drove trains where depots of the operator weren't located for example West Midlands Trains drove the 15x units from Derby to Crewe and vice versa.

Another example the Highland Chieftain and East Coast services to Aberdeen were covered by Scotrail instead of the lodging turns of LNER.
 

dk1

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It always makes me laugh that should there ever be (& there never has been for one second) any word or hint from management that we use our own vehicles as traincrew then there would be an outcry. If though there is engineeering works & we can get on a flyer by parking up nearer to our train then we do it in a heartbeat haha.
 

Class 170101

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It always makes me laugh that should there ever be (& there never has been for one second) any word or hint from management that we use our own vehicles as traincrew then there would be an outcry. If though there is engineeering works & we can get on a flyer by parking up nearer to our train then we do it in a heartbeat haha.

But no petrol money.
 

Mugby

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Don't EMT also taxi a crew from Boston back to Nottingham off a train which terminates there?
 

dk1

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Don't EMT also taxi a crew from Boston back to Nottingham off a train which terminates there?

Norwich turns are covered as required from Nottingham by taxi. EMT also had an agreement where their crews do not use RR buses so its cab every time.
 

trentside

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Don't EMT also taxi a crew from Boston back to Nottingham off a train which terminates there?

There's a crew depot at Boston, and as far as I'm aware, anything booked to finish there is worked by a Boston crew. There may be differences on Saturdays or Sundays that have passed me by though, so stand to be corrected on that.
 

LowLevel

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There's a crew depot at Boston, and as far as I'm aware, anything booked to finish there is worked by a Boston crew. There may be differences on Saturdays or Sundays that have passed me by though, so stand to be corrected on that.

Boston do anything that terminates there. As it's such a small depot it's not unusual for Nottingham crews to be taxied if they're short for any reason (for example a recent funeral resulted in a number of Nottingham staff going over to allow the Boston folks to attend).

At one point about 2 years ago there were one or two Nottingham guards lodging in Norwich hotels every week due to shortages there but that's been sorted out now.

We have no lodging agreement but generally there's a reasonable number of folks happy to oblige if needed.
 

bunnahabhain

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Not to mention Warrington, Shrewsbury, Manchester, Liverpool and even Willesden! The railway contract in Crewe is a very lucrative one - which might explain why in my experience railway taxis from there are a lot more reliable then they are from other locations. And why at least one of the regular drivers is a retired train driver....
Do you ever get Dave? Old chap with a moustache, quite happy to barrel along at 80mph until he sees the tail lights of a lorry in the distance then slams the brakes on trundles at 50mph for a few minutes before speeding back up when he realises.
 

craigybagel

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Do you ever get Dave? Old chap with a moustache, quite happy to barrel along at 80mph until he sees the tail lights of a lorry in the distance then slams the brakes on trundles at 50mph for a few minutes before speeding back up when he realises.
Not had him personally (most of our taxi journeys are in the wrong direction for high speed driving!) but yes, I've heard the stories!
 

221129

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Also on XC, shortly after the start of the franchise change, a mini-depot of Senior Conductors were created at Bristol to operate trains on the Birmingham to Cardiff route. Many staff were driven over to Cardiff on taxis in the early mornings, and even during the day travelled pass on FGW trains (usually from Newport). As Senior Conductors, they do not operate the Voyagers/HSTs which run through Bristol, so there is a significant amount of dead time at the start and end of every duty. Not sure if this is still the case, it’s a few years since I stopped working on the route and I’ve since lost contact with the staff.
This is still the case. Taxis in the morning and evening.
 

Deafdoggie

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One thing I was wondering about from reading this thread - how many lodge turns still exist on the passenger railway today? East Coast at Inverness for drivers (and guards too presumably? I don't think they have a small depot there like they do at Aberdeen?) and various locations for Sleeper customer service staff - but are there any others?

Where do crews get lodged? Is there a minimum standard?
 

bunnahabhain

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Where do crews get lodged? Is there a minimum standard?
I believe the minimum is usually a 3 star or equivalent hotel. It tends to be something akin to a Holiday Inn or Premier Inn usually. Though a colleague did get to stay at a hotel and country club, including free access to the spa and golf course as it was the only hotel within reasonable distance of Norwich station at such late notice.
 

Deafdoggie

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I believe the minimum is usually a 3 star or equivalent hotel. It tends to be something akin to a Holiday Inn or Premier Inn usually. Though a colleague did get to stay at a hotel and country club, including free access to the spa and golf course as it was the only hotel within reasonable distance of Norwich station at such late notice.

"We do apologise for the delay to this service, caused by the driver having a difficult putt on the 15th"
 

LowLevel

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I believe the minimum is usually a 3 star or equivalent hotel. It tends to be something akin to a Holiday Inn or Premier Inn usually. Though a colleague did get to stay at a hotel and country club, including free access to the spa and golf course as it was the only hotel within reasonable distance of Norwich station at such late notice.

2 golf courses actually...
 

tsr

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For everyone’s general amusement, this week the 2107 London Bridge-Uckfield runs ECS back from Uckfield to London Bridge instead of operating in passenger service. This is allegedly to save a few minutes (it’s normally all-stops) to allow a possession to be taken earlier, on the East Grinstead lines north of Oxted somewhere, but nobody has thought to amend the Down trains after this time, which are running as booked until after the 2233 from Uckfield would have run through - and as such the line is staying open for pretty much exactly the same time period. In addition the 2233 from Uckfield is shown on the CIS/journey planners as both a bus (yes) and train (nope).

To cap it all, the stock from Uckfield then sits at London Bridge for half an hour and works the same ECS back to the depot as normal. For further unknown reasons, it leaves behind four coaches at LBG at 2107 and reattaches later. Lastly, the ECS moves for the stock from the 2207 and 2307 Down services both result in significant taxi journeys for the crew, thus longer diagrams.

Much grumbling has resulted from this...
 

Deafdoggie

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Does anyone know the TfW guard duties for Crewe? Earliest start, latest finish, any taxis? That sort of thing.
 

craigybagel

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Does anyone know the TfW guard duties for Crewe? Earliest start, latest finish, any taxis? That sort of thing.

Earliest start around 0250, latest finish just after 0100. No regular taxi jobs but their use for cross depot work at Shrewsbury and Chester is common. Several jobs involve ECS trips instead.
 

Deafdoggie

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Earliest start around 0250, latest finish just after 0100. No regular taxi jobs but their use for cross depot work at Shrewsbury and Chester is common. Several jobs involve ECS trips instead.

Thanks. What routes do they cover?
 

craigybagel

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Thanks. What routes do they cover?

Crewe - Manchester 4 ways (direct, Styal, Stoke and Warrington)
Crewe - Chester - Shrewsbury triangle
Shrewsbury - Cardiff
Craven Arms - Llanwrtyd
Shrewsbury - Birmingham International (both via Smethwick and via Bescot & Aston)
Crewe - Wolverhampton via Stafford
Oxley chord

Most of their work consists of Manchester - Cardiff round trips, or multiple Crewe - Manchester trips, with all the other routes squeezed into a small amount of diagrams, or only signed for diversion/cross depot cover purposes.
 
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