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EMT strike (regional routes) - Sat 20 & 27 Jul, 3 Aug

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route101

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Im booked on the 1547 EMT from Nottingham to Stockport ?Is this running ?
 
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Robertj21a

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Simple, you talk and discuss things through before you ever reach strike action. This has been ongoing for years and multiple avenues have been taken, they've all led to this place.

Fair enough. So it's pure coincidence that the culmination of all those talks happens to be just before the current franchise ends ?
 

43055

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Im booked on the 1547 EMT from Nottingham to Stockport ?Is this running ?
Yes it is still running but be aware the next service after is at 1847.

The times have now been amended in real time trains to show what will be running on Saturday.
 

woodmally

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This entire strike seems odd. Firstly although someone did post these issues have been going on for a while, and I have no reason to dispute that. It does strike me as odd that it has come to this so quickly. The first anything was said about it, that I can gather online, was at the beginning of July. Presumably when they gave notice of the intention to strike. It seems more than coincidence that it is tied to the change of franchise.

It appears to be senior conductors that are striking. Again though because there is so little information in the public domain I can only assume it. There is little information about what caused it, what the issues are and it seems even badly organised.

I'm not a huge fan of RMT but one thing they can do well is strike. And this is not a very well organised strike. Apart from the generic pictures of a train and links to the statement on the RMT website their Facebook page is very sparse on the issue (which from following it during the Northern dispute I can tell you its rare). The comments section of FB is normally a wash with solidarity. There isnt even solidarity from the railwayman in New Zealand who regularly posts solidarity with a fist in the comments. In fact its not been publicised at all really. First I heard was a tannoy announcement at Nottingham Station on Friday.

It seems just a very hush hush rushed industrial action. I dont even know what they are hoping to achieve by it. Its all very mysterious.
 

Carlisle

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Fair enough. So it's pure coincidence that the culmination of all those talks happens to be just before the current franchise ends ?
From what’s been written on here, it appears there’s a belief that as things currently stand, the technicalities of the TUPE system could result in a less favourable outcome for these grievances with the new employer
 

woodmally

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From what’s been written on here, it appears there’s a belief that as things currently stand, the technicalities of the TUPE system could result in a less favourable outcome for these grievances with the new employer
Even this doesn't make sense based on past actions of the RMT. In any other franchise the RMT would not have allowed these problems to drag on so long without a strike as to have to have a rushed job agreeing better wages TOC or whatever it is they are wanting. Also why don't EMT agree to the demands. They will be handing the next company with the problem anyway if there is a cost involved.
 

Elecman

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Even this doesn't make sense based on past actions of the RMT. In any other franchise the RMT would not have allowed these problems to drag on so long without a strike as to have to have a rushed job agreeing better wages TOC or whatever it is they are wanting. Also why don't EMT agree to the demands. They will be handing the next company with the problem anyway if there is a cost involved.

Because they are not allowed to agree anything that will adversely affect the incoming operator from what was in the ITT and data room by order of the DaFT
 

Carlisle

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Could it also have anything to do with the current leadership contest in the RMT?
So far I’ve only noticed posters & leaflets supporting Mick Cash, is there anyone else in with a serious chance?
 
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bunnahabhain

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A flyer from the RMT today explaining a lot of what the strike is about.
 

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  • RMT EMT Strike Flyer.pdf
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Dr Hoo

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So can somebody confirm that some of the Senior Conductors currently have to work more ‘basic’ hours in a week than others? For the same pay?
 

Jozhua

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To be honest, it hasn't been too bad as a passenger, they've cut back the Matlock service to just Derby-Matlock instead of running a route which is also covered by Cross Country, which is fair enough. They're also running every two hours this evening, like on sundays, so other than the 20 minute change in Derby it's been okay.

Definitely not as crippling as I found the Northern strikes and hopefully it sets a precedent for the new operator to not cost cut at the expense of staff and passengers...can't hold my hopes up though!
 

Robertj21a

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Why did the strikes have to start today ?

The RMT say that they attempted an 11th hour meeting with EMT but their management weren't available until after the strike (they're actually back next week, I understand). Given that many people have found this strike to be rather sudden, why couldn't the RMT have started the strikes next week ?. If they wanted an 11th hour meeting they could have still had one just by delaying the start.
 

Tom Quinne

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So can somebody confirm that some of the Senior Conductors currently have to work more ‘basic’ hours in a week than others? For the same pay?

SC guards are ex Central trains staff, when EMT was formed in 2007 - Central staff had a 12 month training or reduced salary, this was voted on and agreed years and years ago during a pay deal. Better % increase, but basically screw the be boys over to put it bluntly. London Midland formerly Silverlink had the same during a pay deal in the late 2000s, prior it was full pay at passing out.

So RMT want to go back on an agreement they signed many years ago - although to be fair a split of Central Trains back in the late 90s wasn’t thought about so you couldn’t foresee where we are today.

That’s the pay issue I suspect anyway, maybe they also want pay equalisation with former Midland Mainline staff who are graded as Train Managers - another messy historical agreement from the late 90s, XC, GWR also have this but at those operations movement from SC to TM is seen and treated by the company as promotion which maintains the pay gap which stands at some £5000ish at GWR at least.
 

LowLevel

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SC guards are ex Central trains staff, when EMT was formed in 2007 - Central staff had a 12 month training or reduced salary, this was voted on and agreed years and years ago during a pay deal. Better % increase, but basically screw the be boys over to put it bluntly. London Midland formerly Silverlink had the same during a pay deal in the late 2000s, prior it was full pay at passing out.

So RMT want to go back on an agreement they signed many years ago - although to be fair a split of Central Trains back in the late 90s wasn’t thought about so you couldn’t foresee where we are today.

That’s the pay issue I suspect anyway, maybe they also want pay equalisation with former Midland Mainline staff who are graded as Train Managers - another messy historical agreement from the late 90s, XC, GWR also have this but at those operations movement from SC to TM is seen and treated by the company as promotion which maintains the pay gap which stands at some £5000ish at GWR at least.

Nope. Senior conductors at EMT have far better conditions than train managers and movement from train manager to conductor is actually more frequent than the other way round.

The training wage at EMT was considered to have been abolished in 2009 in exchange for committed Sundays following a lengthy dispute. In 2016 EMT started putting it back into contracts after a massively long break. The rest is rather complicated but that's the basics.
 

Tom Quinne

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Ah okay thanks for that, I can onto speak from my experience at CT/SL and LM so I assumed it was a similar situation with the other unhappy sister from the Central Trains hosuehold

I know XC ex CT have much better conditions than their ex VT workmates despite being on a slightly higher basic salary.
 

bunnahabhain

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Why did the strikes have to start today ?

The RMT say that they attempted an 11th hour meeting with EMT but their management weren't available until after the strike (they're actually back next week, I understand). Given that many people have found this strike to be rather sudden, why couldn't the RMT have started the strikes next week ?. If they wanted an 11th hour meeting they could have still had one just by delaying the start.
The talks were put in for the 26th after the strike dates were announced. Why should the strikes be delayed when the company side have had years to resolve the issues that they have known all about? Why should we wait longer to ensure our colleagues are paid the same wage as the rest of us?
 

Robertj21a

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The talks were put in for the 26th after the strike dates were announced. Why should the strikes be delayed when the company side have had years to resolve the issues that they have known all about? Why should we wait longer to ensure our colleagues are paid the same wage as the rest of us?

I just thought that it would be sensible to delay it by just one week if the RMT genuinely wanted an 11th hour meeting. If it's taken 'years to resolve' then what difference does one week make ?
What has brought this to a seemingly rather sudden head to warrant strike action now ?
 

bunnahabhain

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I just thought that it would be sensible to delay it by just one week if the RMT genuinely wanted an 11th hour meeting. If it's taken 'years to resolve' then what difference does one week make ?
What has brought this to a seemingly rather sudden head to warrant strike action now ?
As has been said multiple times, it isn't sudden, the last time we attempted to resolve it was in November when a load of documentation was provided, it took almost 6 months to get a response. We haven't kicked the can down the road.
 

Robertj21a

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As has been said multiple times, it isn't sudden, the last time we attempted to resolve it was in November when a load of documentation was provided, it took almost 6 months to get a response. We haven't kicked the can down the road.

Fair enough but, personally, it still seems rather an odd timing to me.
 

bb21

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Fair enough but, personally, it still seems rather an odd timing to me.
I guess it has much to do with preventing management using stalling techniques to try and delay things forever.
 

43096

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As has been said multiple times, it isn't sudden, the last time we attempted to resolve it was in November when a load of documentation was provided, it took almost 6 months to get a response. We haven't kicked the can down the road.
But if you consider the wider context, the lack of a response isn't really that surprising. EMT has been through an almost constant cycle of short-term Direct Awards in the last couple of years. They do not just happen but are onerous in terms of management time to prepare, negotiate and implement. Likewise, they have been in end of franchise mode since the Abellio award was made; again this takes a lot of time and effort on the part of management.
 

route101

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Yes it is still running but be aware the next service after is at 1847.

The times have now been amended in real time trains to show what will be running on Saturday.

Yep managed to get that service , 4 car 158 . Guard was wearing a shirt looked more senior mangement , no ticket check . Same on Skeggy to Nottingham 153 , no ticket check , senior guard .
 

LowLevel

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Yep managed to get that service , 4 car 158 . Guard was wearing a shirt looked more senior mangement , no ticket check . Same on Skeggy to Nottingham 153 , no ticket check , senior guard .

Very few if any conductors worked any trains on Saturday, they were all managers as far as I know and they don't bother to train them on revenue duties. Middle single figures non union guards crossed the picket lines but I don't think with possibly one exception that they worked any trains. The strike was very well supported.
 

Scotty

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The only interaction with the staff member on board on the Skeggy train I boarded on Saturday, was to ensure those getting off at short stations were in the front section of the train.
 

route101

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The only interaction with the staff member on board on the Skeggy train I boarded on Saturday, was to ensure those getting off at short stations were in the front section of the train.

Was that HSTS?
 

route101

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Very few if any conductors worked any trains on Saturday, they were all managers as far as I know and they don't bother to train them on revenue duties. Middle single figures non union guards crossed the picket lines but I don't think with possibly one exception that they worked any trains. The strike was very well supported.

Yep i thought that . Only on the skeggy HST there was a ticket check . She was not doing the doors , a guy was , he looked more like an engineer
 

bb21

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Yep i thought that . Only on the skeggy HST there was a ticket check . She was not doing the doors , a guy was , he looked more like an engineer
On Skyggy HSTs it is more likely an RPI doing revenue.
 
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