End of the Royal Train: alternative uses and what might have been

[43096]

DB presumably still have their company train, so maybe they can place that at the Sovereign's disposal when needed?

They don’t. It has been disposed of.

 

[fgwrich]

Aren’t there a couple of coaches from the HST prototype set in the royal rake? Perhaps the 125 group would be keen on getting those, although probably heavily modified.

They are also probably the most significant / desirable vehicles (HM Queen and Duke of Edinburgh’s Saloons) so already likely to be saved elsewhere.

DB presumably still have their company train, so maybe they can place that at the Sovereign's disposal when needed?

Not anymore. The rake was recently placed up for Auction - the DVT has gone for scrap already, the Mk3s are expected to move to their new homes shortly.

On a side note, don’t forget that the Royal Train vehicles will have additional security elements built into them whereas conventional rolling stock will not.

 

[zwk500]

On a side note, don’t forget that the Royal Train vehicles will have additional security elements built into them whereas conventional rolling stock will not.

Very true, but the GN trains to King's Lynn are presumably not fitted with bulletproof windows and so on yet they were acceptable to the security people. So it can be done.

 

[renegademaster]

Could this be more related to DB trying to wind down their charter business?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Royal transportation has been going downhill for years. First The Queen's Flight was disbanded, then The Royal Yacht, now The Royal Train. No doubt the Royal State Limousines will be replace with Chinese BEVs.

My twin sons when at junior school in 1980 assured all their classmates that the special royal part of the stand at Wimbledon was called "The Royal Box Britannia".

 

[6Gman]

Very true, but the GN trains to King's Lynn are presumably not fitted with bulletproof windows and so on yet they were acceptable to the security people. So it can be done.

It worked because it was low-key and essentially private.

Very different when travelling on official business to events planned (and publicised) months in advance.

 

[Howardh]

Take it to a holiday resort, use Hm's quarters for an expensive hotel room, the rest a bar, restaurant and possibly part rail museum. Doesn't have to be parked on rails!

 

[renegademaster]

Put it somewhere an easy train trip from London and you could rake in boatloads of tourist money.

However just dumping it in a siding at a heritage railway is just going to make it a sitting duck for theft and vandalism, it has to be somewhere indoors and secure

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Train should be an optimum choice for travel within the UK, it tends to be centre to centre and can form a secure closed environment which must be easier to secure.

Just to pick up on this one - a train will surely always reach its destination at a station, and come and go by a defined route. So if HMK takes the Royal Train to Liverpool, then it's not too difficult for anyone _whether malicious or otherwise - to work out that it will come through the cutting into Lime Street. That's something of an open door for a terrorist or similar. Whereas driving, the car could arrive by the M62, or the M53 (and tunnel) or go round by Preston and the A565 from Southport, or (and so on)

I don't think that trains score that well on security.

 

[BrianW]

I admit to being pleasantly surprised by the degree of acceptance by Rail Forumites of economic 'realities'.

With some recognition also of environmental realities, and a certain sadness.

The addition of one of the vehicles to the Royal stock at the NRM would make sense, if space can be made without detriment.

Might others provide opportunity as Glamping Coaches?

 

[CW2]

Perhaps the generator car could find a new use? Class 66 + Genny van on the Penzance overnight anybody?

 

[yorksrob]

Windsor & Eton Central seemed like a bit of a theme park last time I was there. Perhaps they could park it there somewhere - an add on to the castle visit.

 

[Woolos 22]

If the royal family travel on a service train would you be able to sit in the in the same coach as them?

 

[popeter45]

If the royal family travel on a service train would you be able to sit in the in the same coach as them?

no, they reserve entire carriages if not whole trains

 

[ChiefPlanner]

no, they reserve entire carriages if not whole trains

Used to give them sole use of the 1st class section (bar their security staff and certain railway managers of course)

 

[30907]

Just to pick up on this one - a train will surely always reach its destination at a station, and come and go by a defined route. So if HMK takes the Royal Train to Liverpool, then it's not too difficult for anyone _whether malicious or otherwise - to work out that it will come through the cutting into Lime Street.

Except that HMK can get off at Edge Hill alight at South Parkway and transfer to the limo there (or at any number of other stations in the area). Liverpool is unusual anyway in having just one main route in, most significant places have more.

 

[800001]

If the royal family travel on a service train would you be able to sit in the in the same coach as them?

Depend who from the royal family.
Princess Royal (Anne) for example takes a table or 4 and sits with her protection officers.
Anyone more senior than her will be a different arrangement.
I have known William to sit in a carriage with other people surrounded by his protector officers

 

[brad465]

On a side note, don’t forget that the Royal Train vehicles will have additional security elements built into them whereas conventional rolling stock will not.

In WW2 the Royal Train was heavily armoured, but pretty sure since then this hasn't been necessary.

The main security elements I think of are the Royal train does not show up on any publicly available systems, plus extra care must be taken to make sure the train does not stop moving until it reaches its intended destination, so signallers have to give it high priority and the driver has to drive really carefully if the train approaches a signal at danger. Neither of these elements involve unique hardware in the consist.

 

[Russel]

Used to give them sole use of the 1st class section (bar their security staff and certain railway managers of course)

This would seem to be the sensible thing to do, going forward.

 

[WesternLancer]

This would seem to be the sensible thing to do, going forward.

So no travel on TOCs that have abolished first class.

 

[Helvellyn]

A more congested network is probably one of the reasons the train fell out of favour. It's just harder to path and must cause some retimings (even minor) to get not only from A to B but use appropriate platforms as well.

Unlike the retirement of the Royal Yacht, which was part of the Royal Navy so very much a Government decision the Royal Train decision will very much have been down to the Royal Household and the King.

 

[William3000]

Could it have a future as a charter train?

 

[WesternLancer]

Could it have a future as a charter train?

Not really the ‘done thing’ I suspect. Thinking about the debates around the future of the royal yacht when it was decommissioned.

 

[43096]

Could it have a future as a charter train?

It doesn’t exactly seat many people! Best case for re-use would be some of the support vehicles and generator vans being sold on for further use.

 

[Krokodil]

I suspect that the late Queen's saloon will end up in the NRM, the other saloons might find homes in museums elsewhere. The, kitchen, staff couchette and generator van might have a future use as service vehicles for a charter operator, just as some of the others already have (one couchette is in the Northern Belle formation, Network Rail use another and WCRC have one in storage).

 

[BingMan]

Could they not use a Rail Replacement Bus?

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Could they not use a Rail Replacement Bus?

Is that not a Royal Replacement Bus

I'll get my coat.

 

[DarloRich]

Could it have a future as a charter train?

it is nowhere near as luxurious as a charter train - It is more 1980's travel lodge ( from looking through the window at MKC!)

 

[THC]

I don't suppose we can keep the train and lose the monarchy? No, thought not. Ahem, as you were.

THC

 

[thejuggler]

Not really the ‘done thing’ I suspect. Thinking about the debates around the future of the royal yacht when it was decommissioned.

Any option for the saloon to end up in Leith as an extra attraction? TBH peering through carriage windows isn't something I find particularly exciting.