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Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Karl, 10 Dec 2015.
It's a no-brainer really
Looks rather fetching.
Are we looking at the same photo?
I'm looking at the 150/2.
Firstly, apologies for digging up a dead thread.
However, I have been in contact with the RSSB regarding the 'yellow ends' discussion.
See below correspondence from the RSSB
Now this might open a can of worms here but I'd like to see what you all think.
It would be interesting to see what the stats are for railway workers who have been killed by trains in continental Europe, and see whether or not there is a correlation with yellow panels. This makes you wonder how people manage in France, Germany, Poland and elsewhere where yellow panels aren't used.
It also makes one wonder how LUL seem to manage on the surface without yellow ends. Yellow ends are like Guards. They were fine in their time but modern methods have overtaken their original purpose.
Please don't start banging on about Absolute Block. I've stated modern methods not dinosaur methods.
That is interesting, as a person who is fully behind standards and the idea of standardizing, I think this is excellent.
I've read somewhere, probably somewhere up thread that it is linked to the modern standard of headlights. If the modern standard is deemed to be bright enough and reliable enough to be acceptable without yellow fronts, is a dark color better. Rely on the lights for nighttime / dark conditions, but a dark front end to differentiate on a sunny day and give the lights something to contrast against.
I think a significant difference is that, at least on their own routes, LU do not normally have people working on the tracks during running hours. That isn't to say it never happens at all, but it isn't done in quite the same way as NR infrastructure.
LU have red ends, which are almost as visible. SBB and DB both use red ends on much of their stock (though not all).
Non-automatic Lines certainly do, today i've had vegetation control - in 3 separate places; signal engineers - repairing Piccadilly Line problems; track team taking possession in Barking sidings; routine track patrol guys, both east and west.
Yellow paint costs nothing as the front of a train would have to be painted some colour, so even if it is only slightly useful every now and again it should be retained. My personal experience is that in a heavy heat shimmer, a yellow front shows up more than the lights, as the distortion of the image alters the size of the yellow patch. The same effect tends to scatter the beam from the lights reducing its visibility, so in an ideal world I would want a nice bright light on a yellow and black end. Surely that is not too much to ask if the railway industry is really serious about staff safety.
What is the rule regarding blue fencing?
most work sites now have temporary fencing erected to keep track workers the right side of a running line. Speaking with a NR supervisor last week as had him in cab to check the line and he said they (NR) do not do any work on running lines now. seems it's only contractors like QTS etc that still work lineside when the lines are open.
Thanks for clarifying.
I did wonder why such a non-striking colour was used for this.
it doesnt matter even if lines are closed - men and women are working close to open running lines...regardless of how much barrier is between them..there will always someone who strays...if a yellow end saves one person a year from death then its worth keeping...you may not hear a train coming but a good lookout will see it before he/she hears it - thats why the yellow end is important!!
Surely the yellow isn't necessary because of the high intensity headlights that modern trains have?
Even if the lookout sees a train later than they should they should still be positioned in a place so that enough warning can be given to the work party to move to a position of safety.
So the office bods think. :roll:
Headlights in a heat haze, off the straight aren't the be-all and end-all.
Depends on the work, or perhaps is a regional thing, in my experience red zone often still takes place where safe to do so and line blockages aren't an option for whatever reason. If working near, but not on, a running line a Site Warden will be appointed to ensure no one strays. Only time I've ever encountered blue fencing is when it's already there, usually seemingly placed by contractors doing jobs over several days.
Quite right you can always employ replacement P-Way staff, it is not as if we are particularly clever or skilled. :roll:
I dunno a few times i've seen the yellow end of approaching trains (modern stock, 172s and the like) before the lights (viewed from the platform not rail side i should add). The yellow always works too even if its pretty dirty while lights of course can always fail...
That's a very mature response to my comment, not OTT at all. I wasn't aware of p way staff being killed in their droves in Germany or France so why should things be different here. If there is concrete evidence of a correlation between deaths and yellow panels then I'll retract my statement.
Have you seen a post from anyone who works on the line who is saying, yes, get rid of them?
No, but I've yet to see evidence that getting rid of the yellow will lead to an increase in track deaths. If this was to occur then I'd support the idea of reintroducing them.
Thanks, that says it all.
Not really. I'm not surprised that staff prefer having yellow panels because that is what they are used to working with. It's worth seeing what happens without yellow panels before judgment is passed.
You've been told headlights aren't the answer already though.
And yes, I've seen enough of the newer stock with higher intensity headlights to form my opinion from working trackside.
What's your first hand experience?
I don't work in the p-way department so I don't have experience from track level. I can say that in quite a few cases where I've been waiting alongside straight stretches of track, I've seen the headlights before the yellow panel, and this was particularly apparent with the Network Rail Loram grinder that I saw at Tamworth on one occasion. One of the only times I recall seeing the panel before the headlights was at Dunster, but that was a heritage DMU with poor headlights. As I've said, I'm not sure how they cope in France, where safety panels are nonexistant, or in Germany where rolling stock only has small white panels.
Really? You're advocating a potential increase in risk to track workers for some aesthetic reason? Do you think you know better than those who actually work in the rail industry?