Endeavour - end of steam in the U.K.

[BanburyBlue]

Hi peeps.

I’m just watching Endeavour with Mrs BanburyBlue. The episode is set in, I think, 1967. Morse is catching trains as it’s the episode where his father is ill and he has to go home a lot.

Now, the trains he is catching hauled by steam locomotives. I would have thought that by 1967 mainline passenger services would have been hauled by diesels? My only doubt is Wikipedia saying the last steam hauled train in the U.K. was 1968.

Thanks.

 

[High Dyke]

Interesting. Obviously the last official main-line steam hauled trip was the Fifteen Guinea Special. I found this information about the withdrawal of steam services by each region.

One by one the regions dispensed with steam; the WR in March ’66, ER in May ’66, ScR in May ’67, SR in July ’67, NER in October ’67 and finally the LMR in August ’68. Source: Here.

 

[BanburyBlue]

Interesting. Obviously the last official main-line steam hauled trip was the Fifteen Guinea Special. I found this information about the withdrawal of steam services by each region.

Out of interest, what was the Fifteen Guinea Special?

 

[High Dyke]

Out of interest, what was the Fifteen Guinea Special?

On 11th August 1968 British Rail ran their last steam hauled train which became affectionately known as the ‘Fifteen Guinea Special’. The train ran from Liverpool via Manchester to Carlisle.

 

[Cowley]

Hi peeps.

I’m just watching Endeavour with Mrs BanburyBlue. The episode is set in, I think, 1967. Morse is catching trains as it’s the episode where his father is ill and he has to go home a lot.

Now, the trains he is catching hauled by steam locomotives. I would have thought that by 1967 mainline passenger services would have been hauled by diesels? My only doubt is Wikipedia saying the last steam hauled train in the U.K. was 1968.

Thanks.

Assuming he was travelling in the Oxford area (I haven’t seen it so that’s only a guess)? He wouldn’t have been travelling behind steam.
If he was travelling out of Waterloo towards Southampton then maybe as that didn’t finish until 1967, or if he was in the northwest then possibly as some steam clung on until summer 1968.

 

[BanburyBlue]

Assuming he was travelling in the Oxford area (I haven’t seen it so that’s only a guess)? He wouldn’t have been travelling behind steam.
If he was travelling out of Waterloo towards Southampton then maybe as that didn’t finish until 1967, or if he was in the northwest then possibly as some steam clung on until summer 1968.

Thanks. Yes defo travelling from Oxford in a northern direction.

On 11th August 1968 British Rail ran their last steam hauled train which became affectionately known as the ‘Fifteen Guinea Special’. The train ran from Liverpool via Manchester to Carlisle.

Did the ticket cost 15 Guineas by any chance?

 

[D6130]

On 11th August 1968 British Rail ran their last steam hauled train which became affectionately known as the ‘Fifteen Guinea Special’. The train ran from Liverpool via Manchester to Carlisle.

Yes..it ran from Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Victoria hauled by Black 5 no. 45110, Manchester to Carlisle via Bolton, Blackburn, Hellifield and Appleby with Britannia 70013 "Oliver Cromwell", Carlisle back to Manchester by the same route with 44781 and 44871 double-heading and finally 45110 again back to Liverpool. The headcode was 1T57 and it became known as the Fifteen Guineas Special as that was the fare which was charged (£15.75 in new money....a lot in those days!).

If the young Endeavour was travelling home from Oxford in 1967, it would be unlikely that he would have had steam haulage, although steam didn't finish on the Waterloo-Southampton-Bournemouth-Weymouth line until 9th July 1967 and it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Bournemouth depot may have occasionally turned out a Bulleid pacific as far as Oxford to replace a failed 47 on a cross-country service.

 

[BanburyBlue]

Yes..it ran from Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Victoria hauled by Black 5 no. 45110, Manchester to Carlisle via Bolton, Blackburn, Hellifield and Appleby with Britannia 70013 "Oliver Cromwell", Carlisle back to Manchester by the same route with 44781 and 44871 double-heading and finally 45110 again back to Liverpool. The headcode was 1T57 and it became known as the Fifteen Guineas Special as that was the fare which was charged (£15.75 in new money....a lot in those days!).

If the young Endeavour was travelling home from Oxford in 1967, it would be unlikely that he would have had steam haulage, although steam didn't finish on the Waterloo-Southampton-Bournemouth-Weymouth line until 9th July 1967 and it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Bournemouth depot may have occasionally turned out a Bulleid pacific as far as Oxford to replace a failed 47 on a cross-country service.

Agreed. According to the National Archive, 15 guineas in 1965 is equivalent to just over £277 today (sorry, no 1967 conversion factor available)

Young Morse was travelling north from Oxford.

 

[Titfield]

This episode "Home" is set in December 1965 (according to Wikipedia).

 

[Cowley]

This episode "Home" is set in December 1965 (according to Wikipedia).

Ah. That would make it a bit more plausible than 1967 then.

 

[Bevan Price]

Oxford shed closed to steam in December 1965, but steam from London Midland depots certainly reached Bournemouth via Oxford until Summer 1966. I had 44780 on the Poole - Newcastle in June 1966.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I lived in the Northwest and can confirm the last steam was 1968

 

[billh]

Well John Thaw was from Manchester, so perhaps his parents were still there. Still some steam hauled passenger trains at Man Vic in 1967?

 

[Grumpy]

It's only light entertainment. Last night's episode featured green carriages. I guessed it was filmed on the Bluebell.
There's another episode of Endeavour that has him locked in a wagon while investigating a body found on the track. I thought that seemed to be filmed at Quainton

 

[JohnElliott]

It's only light entertainment. Last night's episode featured green carriages. I guessed it was filmed on the Bluebell.

Yes - I was quite amused to see Horsted Keynes, with everything painted SR green, posing as WR Oxford.

Of course the Bluebell would already have been running as a preserved railway in the years Endeavour is set.

 

[341o2]

Similarly, Hertbeat had steam trains running throught the series, to be authentic, most of the services would be worked by first generation DMU's by the mid 60's

 

[70014IronDuke]

Well John Thaw was from Manchester, so perhaps his parents were still there. Still some steam hauled passenger trains at Man Vic in 1967?

If from Man Vic, yes, there were a few in 67.

But he would have gone to/from Piccadily to get to Oxford. No chance of steam at Man Picc in 67 on regular workings, methinks.

 

[John Luxton]

Hi peeps.

I’m just watching Endeavour with Mrs BanburyBlue. The episode is set in, I think, 1967. Morse is catching trains as it’s the episode where his father is ill and he has to go home a lot.

Now, the trains he is catching hauled by steam locomotives. I would have thought that by 1967 mainline passenger services would have been hauled by diesels? My only doubt is Wikipedia saying the last steam hauled train in the U.K. was 1968.

Thanks.

Interesting observation I have recently been watching some of the last ITV Heartbeat episodes which are obviously set around 1969 as that is the date to be seen on the vehicle road tax disks if one is observant - yet there are still steam trains operating as they us the NYMR line for filming railway scenes when really a diesel loco or DMU would be more appropriate.

 

[D6130]

Interesting observation I have recently been watching some of the last ITV Heartbeat episodes which are obviously set around 1969 as that is the date to be seen on the vehicle road tax disks if one is observant - yet there are still steam trains operating as they us the NYMR line for filming railway scenes when really a diesel loco or DMU would be more appropriate.

If the programme makers were going for maximum authenticity they wouldn't have featured any trains at all in the later episodes as the Pickering-Grosmont line was closed in 1965. However, it's a fictional television fantasy......and they're not known for attention to historical detail, especially with regard to railway matters!

 

[John Luxton]

If the programme makers were going for maximum authenticity they wouldn't have featured any trains at all in the later episodes as the Pickering-Grosmont line was closed in 1965. However, it's a fictional television fantasy......and they're not known for attention to historical detail, especially with regard to railway matters!

Yes true to some extent but as Whitby appears in many episodes under its real name and the Whitby line never closed there is some justification we don't know where Aidensfield and Ashfordly are really meant to be. Whilst like with Endeavour one does expect some degree of accuracy. I really enjoy period dramas as my interest in history extends well beyond railways and "spot the anachronism" becomes part of the fun of watching them. That is not to say I don't enjoy them - but it is another aspect to watching them.

If one took all these crime dramas seriously we would be thinking that certain towns and villages around the country were hotbeds of burglary and Murder. Oxford would have particular issues. As would Aberystwyth (y Gwyllt/ Hinterland) and Cornwall (Wycliffe).

 

[Gloster]

If one took all these crime dramas seriously we would be thinking that certain towns and villages around the country were hotbeds of burglary and Murder. Oxford would have particular issues. As would Aberystwyth (y Gwyllt/ Hinterland) and Cornwall (Wycliffe).

And if we could identify the county of Midsomer, we wouldn’t go near it.

 

[neilmc]

Noticeable to me how series set in, say, the 1930s now try to ensure that the steam locos portrayed are of pre-war build and in pre-BR livery but the coaching stock is almost always BR MK 1s repainted.

 

[John Luxton]

Noticeable to me how series set in, say, the 1930s now try to ensure that the steam locos portrayed are of pre-war build and in pre-BR livery but the coaching stock is almost always BR MK 1s repainted.

True - but one supposes in many cases Mk1 stock is much more common and not every line whilst they might have an appropriately liveried loco might struggle for coaching stock. However, I did watch something fairly recently which featured a Southern locomotive and the story was not set anywhere near Southern territory and neither was the train heading there.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's only light entertainment. Last night's episode featured green carriages. I guessed it was filmed on the Bluebell.
There's another episode of Endeavour that has him locked in a wagon while investigating a body found on the track. I thought that seemed to be filmed at Quainton

For a series which prides itself on looking and feeling authentic (world cup chat etc), it's a pity they couldn't find a WR preserved line to film at (or LMR for the Bletchley route).
There were SR green coaches through Oxford, but not on local trains.
Lewis (recent era of course) has episodes with filming on the canal under the Rewley Road swing bridge which once led to the LNWR/LMS/LM terminus in Oxford.
The canal must be one of the most dangerous places in Oxford from the number of Endeavour/Morse/Lewis murders there!

 

[Spartacus]

Interesting observation I have recently been watching some of the last ITV Heartbeat episodes which are obviously set around 1969 as that is the date to be seen on the vehicle road tax disks if one is observant - yet there are still steam trains operating as they us the NYMR line for filming railway scenes when really a diesel loco or DMU would be more appropriate.

I'd have thought the bigger issue is that series 1 was set in 1964, but the show carried on for 18 years.... if they'd have carried on much longer they should probably have had pacers! There's probably some fan theory of Kate Rowan's death being linked to Heartbeat's bounding in reality, though the Aidensfield village police station being near Burley in Wharfedale would always make that a tenuous link to reality! (Askwith, opposite the Askwith Arms, who must have got a lot of business off the cast and crew over the years!)
I think in early years they did make more use of diesels than they perhaps did later, I'm sure the 25 or one of the 24s had a starring role in one of the episodes.

 

[341o2]

Interesting observation I have recently been watching some of the last ITV Heartbeat episodes which are obviously set around 1969 as that is the date to be seen on the vehicle road tax disks if one is observant - yet there are still steam trains operating as they us the NYMR line for filming railway scenes when really a diesel loco or DMU would be more appropriate.

All the road tax discs throught the series expire 31 December 1969

 

[Loppylugs]

Well John Thaw was from Manchester, so perhaps his parents were still there. Still some steam hauled passenger trains at Man Vic in 1967?

Endeavour was played by Shaun Evans and not John Thaw, but he came from Liverpool so you could be on to something there.

 

[John Luxton]

All the road tax discs throught the series expire 31 December 1969

I didn't realise it was throughout the series!

 

[Wyrleybart]

Endeavour was played by Shaun Evans and not John Thaw, but he came from Liverpool so you could be on to something there.

Yebbut - isn't Endeavour as a youngish copper intended to portray John Thaw earlier in his career ?
Or am I living under an illusion ?

 

[d9009alycidon]

Agreed. According to the National Archive, 15 guineas in 1965 is equivalent to just over £277 today (sorry, no 1967 conversion factor available)

Young Morse was travelling north from Oxford.

I do remember the price of a ticket for this railtour being quoted as "astronomical" around then, did the price of the ticket include meals? If it did then it would be equivalent to a Premier ticket on the present day Cumbrian Mountain Express, which this year will set you back £259, not much cheaper and back then you got four different locomotives, not just the one!