Ending a journey early on MegabusPlus

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NathanPrior

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I'm having an argument with someone who wants to go to Nottingham, but has booked a MegabusPlus ticket to Doncaster for £1, but will get off at East Midlands Parkway as normal but not get on the connecting coach and buy a train ticket from there to Nottingham.

Am I correct in saying that this is seen as ending your journey early and that he would be liable for a PF or whatever it is they do?
 
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tony_mac

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As the connecting bus is not a rail replacement service, I can't see that any of the railway sanctions could possibly apply.

The ticket is for a rail journey to East Midlands Parkway, as long as that is taken in full, then the conditions of the rail ticket have been complied with.

It may breach megabus's terms and condition (with regards to the bus travel), but what can they do about it?

(This is just an uninformed opinion)
 

Skymonster

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Am I correct in saying that this is seen as ending your journey early and that he would be liable for a PF or whatever it is they do?

It may contravene Megabus Ts&Cs. I don't want to condone or encourage inappropriate use of tickets, and I suspect some people here will frown at me for saying the following, but...

As there are no barriers at East Midlands Parkway, as I've never seen Revenue Protection there, and when the Megabus trains arrive there's just a person on the platform with a Megabus sign directing passengers through the concourse towards various buses outside on the forecourt, I suspect anyone stopping short at East Midlands Parkway would get away with it. However, if the train was going through to Nottingham, it probably wouldn't be a very good idea to get back on the same train again though even with a valid ticket from Parkway to Nottingham.

Andy
 

Max

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Having just been to East Midlands Parkway at the weekend I suspect it would be quite possible to slip through un-noticed. However, as Yorkie has mentioned, you could be asked to pay the difference between the Megaplusbus fare and a full anytime single from London to East Midlands Parkway if you were caught.
 

34D

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As the connecting bus is not a rail replacement service, I can't see that any of the railway sanctions could possibly apply.

The ticket is for a rail journey to East Midlands Parkway, as long as that is taken in full, then the conditions of the rail ticket have been complied with.

It may breach megabus's terms and condition (with regards to the bus travel), but what can they do about it?

(This is just an uninformed opinion)

Agree fully with tony
 

tony_mac

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I think that Megabus could 'ask', but they aren't a TOC, and would have no statutory powers to enforce it.

The train journey has finished; the conditions of carriage and railway byelaws don't apply to coach journeys (other than rail replacements).

(Again, this is my uninformed opinion)
 

Ferret

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I think that Megabus could 'ask', but they aren't a TOC, and would have no statutory powers to enforce it.

The train journey has finished; the conditions of carriage and railway byelaws don't apply to coach journeys (other than rail replacements).

(Again, this is my uninformed opinion)

The chances of being caught doing this I'd say are less than the square root of nothing in any case!!!!

 

Deerfold

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I would point out that this will certainly not work in the opposite direction as when you get off the coach you aer given a valid rail ticket for travel to London. If you've not been on the coach you won't get one - staff on the train will not accept just your reference number.
 

LexyBoy

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From http://uk.megabus.com/terms.aspx

MegaBusPlus T&Cs said:
10. Bookings for megabusplus services are in accordance with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage. Some of these conditions are clarified or specifically amended below.

a. You must travel wholly between the origin and destination, on the date and at the time(s) in your booking confirmation. If you start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station you will need to buy a new rail ticket for the entire journey made. This rail ticket will be the price of the most appropriate undiscounted Single rail fare for the journey being made. No refund will be given on the megabusplus ticket or additional ticket purchased. In addition, you may have to pay a Penalty Fare.

This would appear to give them the ability to make a charge for "stopping short", as it's on top of the NRCOC.

However, the Megabusplus T&Cs section is headed:
Megabusplus Terms & Conditions

These General Terms & Conditions apply for journeys wholly on megabusplus services.

Which I think probably makes it meaningless as megabusplus certainly don't operate the St Pancras - EM Parkway train (I don't know how the connecting bus is defined, but the journey clearly isn't solely on megabusplus. The corresponding section for megatrain tickets clarifies which TOCs it means).
 

tony_mac

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I agree that, in theory they could try and apply a charge. But, I believe, they would have to pursue the matter through the civil courts as it is a 'bus' issue and not a 'rail' issue.

Note that the NRCoC considers that leaving a station to board a coach is a break of journey - so what's the difference between leaving the station to board a coach or leaving the station and not boarding a coach?
 

LexyBoy

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I agree that they would probably find it difficult to charge, and in any case nobody's going to be herding passengers onto the bus.
tony_mac said:
Note that the NRCoC considers that leaving a station to board a coach is a break of journey - so what's the difference between leaving the station to board a coach or leaving the station and not boarding a coach?
A lot of the Megatrain/megabusplus T&Cs seem fairly dubious as they've been lifted from the NRCoC, tweaked, and applied to a different service from that they were written for. I assume taking a genuine RR service would not constitute a break of journey, so maybe megabus think that by giving passengers a ticket including a bus journey, that they've somehow legitimised their bus as a rail service?


 

34D

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I would point out that this will certainly not work in the opposite direction as when you get off the coach you aer given a valid rail ticket for travel to London. If you've not been on the coach you won't get one - staff on the train will not accept just your reference number.

Anyone ever tried "I missed the coach so my dad brought me here by car"?
 

bangor-toad

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Anyone ever tried "I missed the coach so my dad brought me here by car"?

Me.
I've done this once in circumstances as you describe. The ticket inspector on the train was not impressesd and was clearly thinking about charging me. I was lucky and was shown discretion but it was clear that just joining at East Midlands Parkway was a bad idea.


On the other hand I've got off at East Midlands Parkway and not got on the coach and nobody cares at all.

Cheers,
Jason
 

bb21

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I would point out that this will certainly not work in the opposite direction as when you get off the coach you aer given a valid rail ticket for travel to London. If you've not been on the coach you won't get one - staff on the train will not accept just your reference number.

I am of the opinion that this is unenforceable. There is no mention in the Ts and Cs that anything in addition to the reference number is required.
 

sheff1

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I would point out that this will certainly not work in the opposite direction as when you get off the coach you aer given a valid rail ticket for travel to London. If you've not been on the coach you won't get one - staff on the train will not accept just your reference number.

Have you experienced this ?

It would appear to contradict Megatrain T&C 10b which states
A valid booking reference acts as the ticket for your journey. This can be a printed confirmation e-mail or SMS. You must present this when requested by a member of staff whilst travelling on the train or to enter/leave a station.
 
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clagmonster

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INote that the NRCoC considers that leaving a station to board a coach is a break of journey - so what's the difference between leaving the station to board a coach or leaving the station and not boarding a coach?
If the bus leaves from the station forecourt, then technically it is still within the station, so the passenger would not leave the station.
 

bb21

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In theory you could as there are no barriers at Carlisle.

I do not recommend this however it could well be unenforceable if you are changing trains anyway and already have another ticket for the next leg of your journey.

If you intend to leave the station then you can be caught if there is a revenue block.
 

LexyBoy

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But if you don't have one, you must have started short, no?

You'd have the reference number from the megawhatever email, which is all that's required by the T&Cs. Deerfold was talking about the rail ticket which is, seperately, given out to passengers on the connecting bus.
 

island

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What I'm trying to say is that you can't board the train not having used the coach, because the conditions prohibit starting short, and the ticket is the evidence that you used the coach. Or are we talking at cross-purposes?
 

LexyBoy

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What I'm trying to say is that you can't board the train not having used the coach, because the conditions prohibit starting short, and the ticket is the evidence that you used the coach. Or are we talking at cross-purposes?

Oh right, I misunderstood you.

Could one argue that East Mids Parkway is not an "intermediate station", as it's the first station on the trip? <D
 

Max

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You could, while watching the train leave E Mids Pkwy after the barrier staff refuse you passage :)

There are no barriers at East Midlands Parkway. However, you will not be able to leave the station at St Pancras. By then, I imagine the consequences will be more serious if you are questioned as you will already have made the journey.
 

LexyBoy

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The T&Cs make it clear that your ticket for your megabusplus journey is the reference number - see conditions 7 and 10b, here. No mention is made of any other tokens, tickets etc. So what could staff do if you had simply discarded the ticket on the coach, on the grounds that your reference is all that's required?

(See also Northern's token system during fare evasion stings).
 

bb21

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The T&Cs make it clear that your ticket for your megabusplus journey is the reference number - see conditions 7 and 10b, here. No mention is made of any other tokens, tickets etc. So what could staff do if you had simply discarded the ticket on the coach, on the grounds that your reference is all that's required?

(See also Northern's token system during fare evasion stings).

This is my point precisely.
 

Blindtraveler

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Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
I do not recommend this however it could well be nenforceable if you are changing trains anyway and already have another ticket for the next leg of your journey.

If you intend to leave the station then you can be caught if there is a revenue block.



not generally ticket checks at CAR after 1900, the train arives after this time. I would, perhaps predictably be changing for EDB but baught the megatrain as it was stupidly cheep and allowed a huge chunk of milage to be done for not a huge amount of Cash. I'm purely trying to avoid going all the way to GLC and having to double back.
 

reb0118

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verging a bit O/T hERE BUT i have a £1 megatrain PRE-GLC . Can I finish early at Carlisle without charge or does this break the rules

not generally ticket checks at CAR after 1900, the train arives after this time. I would, perhaps predictably be changing for EDB but baught the megatrain as it was stupidly cheep and allowed a huge chunk of milage to be done for not a huge amount of Cash. I'm purely trying to avoid going all the way to GLC and having to double back.

If Edinburgh is your final destination then a ticket, in theory, from Glasgow to there is a lot cheaper than from Carlisle.
 

Deerfold

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The T&Cs make it clear that your ticket for your megabusplus journey is the reference number - see conditions 7 and 10b, here. No mention is made of any other tokens, tickets etc. So what could staff do if you had simply discarded the ticket on the coach, on the grounds that your reference is all that's required?

(See also Northern's token system during fare evasion stings).

You are handed the ticket as you get off the coach and told that if you don't have it when checked on the train at St Pancras you'll have to pay full fare for the journey.
 
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