Enforcement of the new rules on social distancing, unnecessary journeys etc.

AM9

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Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/using-trains-to-travel-to-work.202660

After a few examples are made of people deliberately ignoring the requests, - suitably exposed by the media, the strays will reduce to a trickle.

Then there will be adequate enforcement to make it stick.

They've already introduced into the bill the crime of using infection of COVID19 as a threat, following cases of miscreant coughing in police officers' faces.
 
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30907

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They've already introduced into the bill the crime of using infection of COVID19 as a threat, following cases of miscreant coughing in police officers' faces.
I thought the charge would be common assault, not a new offence?
 

Harpers Tate

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It all depends on whether whichever police are involved are making it up as they go.
Not transport related - but yesterday, Derbyshire Police were using drones to film and track people - and they put footage out on the media. These people had driven out of their (crowded) city/housing estate/etc., to the relative quiet of the Peak District for their (permitted) daily exercise. They were being told that their drive was an unnecessary journey.
As I understand it, this is not the official position nationally. Indeed, it makes far more sense that
a) people DO exercise and
b) they do so in an environment where they are more able to keep their 2 metres away from others.
 

yorkie

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...it makes far more sense that
a) people DO exercise and
b) they do so in an environment where they are more able to keep their 2 metres away from others.
Indeed.

I have not heard/read anything about this other than a discussion with a forum member last night, who described this incident as the police behaving within the letter of the law but not within the spirit of it.
 
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AM9

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It all depends on whether whichever police are involved are making it up as they go.
Not transport related - but yesterday, Derbyshire Police were using drones to film and track people - and they put footage out on the media. These people had driven out of their (crowded) city/housing estate/etc., to the relative quiet of the Peak District for their (permitted) daily exercise. They were being told that their drive was an unnecessary journey.
As I understand it, this is not the official position nationally. Indeed, it makes far more sense that
a) people DO exercise and
b) they do so in an environment where they are more able to keep their 2 metres away from others.
The issue might be that there's no need to travel that far, where on some days, the location might become quite crowded.
 

SilentGrade

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The issue might be that there's no need to travel that far, where on some days, the location might become quite crowded.

I think the issue is that in the regulations there is nothing actually stopping people doing what they were doing in Derbyshire, and my concern is that the Police’s overzealous interpretations will have the opposite impact.

When you read the regulations, they’re so wild and contain so many get out clauses that it essentially only prohibits loitering on a street corner.
 

Meerkat

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There is a fixation on the regulations.
It’s obvious what the principle is - stay home, essential travel only
 

Meerkat

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Which is fine until you come to enforcement, you can’t enforce a principle.
They can stop people and educate them. The police are trying not to have to fine or arrest people - they really don’t want to do that, it’s not the way we do policing.
 

Dr Hoo

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It all depends on whether whichever police are involved are making it up as they go.
Not transport related - but yesterday, Derbyshire Police were using drones to film and track people - and they put footage out on the media. These people had driven out of their (crowded) city/housing estate/etc., to the relative quiet of the Peak District for their (permitted) daily exercise. They were being told that their drive was an unnecessary journey.
As I understand it, this is not the official position nationally. Indeed, it makes far more sense that
a) people DO exercise and
b) they do so in an environment where they are more able to keep their 2 metres away from others.
Speaking as a resident of the Peak District that is fine in principle but you only had to be here last weekend to see what happens when 'everyone' thinks the same thing. The roads, car parks, paths, etc. were totally rammed (with a lot of 'dangerous' parking into the bargain). Folk were queued close together at ice cream vans amid fugs of vaping fumes that gave a very clear indication of how readily airborne particulates spread.
Completely unbelievable.
(I was undertaking my last car journey for the time being, conveying a trained medical professional to live and work in Leeds during the epidemic without them having to use public transport by the way.)
 

yorkie

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There is a fixation on the regulations.
It’s obvious what the principle is - stay home, essential travel only
Yes and exercise is essential; I'm going to be on a lengthy cycle/walk because I am prevented playing football (and I no longer need to cycle to work much) and it is essential that I do this to maintain my fitness which will ensure my immune system is in good shape.
I don't get why they don't say "maximum 1 hour out of the house for exercise" - it's enough for anyone and keeps it local.
No way. I am doing much longer walks than that, and if anyone tried to stop me, they would effectively be attempting to make me more likely to be ill, which is totally unacceptable.
 

Tom B

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Living in Inner London, having my permitted walk in outer areas and driving there puts me into potential contact with far fewer people. Attempting to combine this with work- or shopping- related journeys though.
 

Tom B

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I don't get why they don't say "maximum 1 hour out of the house for exercise" - it's enough for anyone and keeps it local.
Unenforceable, unless they post one bobby to every street with a clipboard to record times!

Last night there was a meatwagon doing the rounds of local streets and the estate - I was, at the time, walking to the shops, and didn't get stopped or anything, so I assume they are looking for groups congregating etc.
 

Meerkat

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Unenforceable, unless they post one bobby to every street with a clipboard to record times!

Last night there was a meatwagon doing the rounds of local streets and the estate - I was, at the time, walking to the shops, and didn't get stopped or anything, so I assume they are looking for groups congregating etc.
It is enforceable, just not in our culture.
In France you have to fill in a form before leaving the house, in Greece you have to send a text and not leave until you get permission texted back.
 

C J Snarzell

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I've not seen any 'Big Brother' policing behaviour where I live yet but I have seen a couple of liveried patrols speaking to small numbers of people just outside the town centre where I'm from.

I watched a news report on ITV the other night where cops in the Met where out & about challenging people. What appalled me the most was that they accosted a woman sat on her own on a park bench watching the world go by & told her to go home. Another older lady who was not quite as mobile was sat in a public area on her own and she explained she lived alone in a high rise flat and was enjoying some fresh air & sunshine for half an hour. Both of these women were clearly being sensible and maintaining social distancing but yet being told to go back indoors!!!

What the police are doing has to be sensible and proportionate. My bugbear with all this is that if cops challenge decent people (like the two ladies on the news) respecting the government's advice, very quickly we will start to develop a bit of social unrest with people objecting to having their privacy challenged.

One of my friends has basically lost his livelihood because of Covid19 & is not in a good place at the moment. He's been taking his daughter to the park once a day and I have a feeling if he gets challenged by the police while out, about his movements he really will kick off!!!

CJ
 

SilentGrade

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What the police are doing has to be sensible and proportionate. My bugbear with all this is that if cops challenge decent people (like the two ladies on the news) respecting the government's advice, very quickly we will start to develop a bit of social unrest with people objecting to having their privacy challenged.
Exactly, people are more than happy to respect the principle of the regulations until you start getting their backs up, which I think the police risk doing with some of the over the top approaches we are starting to see.
 

Bletchleyite

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Exactly, people are more than happy to respect the principle of the regulations until you start getting their backs up, which I think the police risk doing with some of the over the top approaches we are starting to see.
They seem to be going for low hanging fruit, which is not at all unusual for some areas of the Police, but they really should be targetting resources at the greater issue e.g. gangs of lads.
 

C J Snarzell

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Exactly, people are more than happy to respect the principle of the regulations until you start getting their backs up, which I think the police risk doing with some of the over the top approaches we are starting to see.
SilentGrade

I think the big issue everywhere is the very small percentage of idiots who are completely ignoring all common sense who potentially are going to force the hand of the police and government and get us all confined indoors 24/7.

It's like the classroom mentality at school - one unruley pupil effectively behaves badly enough that the rest of the class suffer the consequences!!!

CJ
 

Typhoon

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Living in Inner London, having my permitted walk in outer areas and driving there puts me into potential contact with far fewer people.
Absolutely. I've been on several walks in the last few years that are part of the signposted Walk London walks and, in the outer suburbs, you can easily travel for half an hour without passing anyone. If you know the area, you can usually find somewhere to walk where you can easily socially isolate, just avoid the touristy areas. Just needs common sense and selflessness.
 

LAX54

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I don't get why they don't say "maximum 1 hour out of the house for exercise" - it's enough for anyone and keeps it local.
So there have been lockdowns in many other Countries, yet it only seems to be the UK, that cannot comply with the request !
STAY HOME... seems simple enough
ESSENTIAL JOURNEY ONLY... seems simple enough again !
 

Bletchleyite

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So there have been lockdowns in many other Countries, yet it only seems to be the UK, that cannot comply with the request !
STAY HOME... seems simple enough
ESSENTIAL JOURNEY ONLY... seems simple enough again !
Our "lockdown" is near identical to the French barring a piece of petty bureaucracy (paperwork) they're doing which is very typically French.
 

Meerkat

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What appalled me the most was that they accosted a woman sat on her own on a park bench watching the world go by & told her to go home
And she leaves the virus on the bench for the next person and the person after that and five days later you have a serious cluster.
 

Bletchleyite

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And she leaves the virus on the bench for the next person and the person after that and five days later you have a serious cluster.
Agreed. If playground equipment is a risk so is a bench.

Sitting outside isn't on the list of reasons to go out, only exercising outside. If you are exercising, only your shoes (or bike tyres) touch the floor so the risk of transmission is near-nil.
 

bussnapperwm

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Agreed. If playground equipment is a risk so is a bench.

Sitting outside isn't on the list of reasons to go out, only exercising outside. If you are exercising, only your shoes (or bike tyres) touch the floor so the risk of transmission is near-nil.
So if, while undergoing your permitted daily exercise, you need to sit down on a bench (or brick wall, or even at a bus shelter) for a few minutes to catch your breath, or just have a couple of minutes to sort out an ache or pain or even a loose shoelace, your saying that this isn't allowed?
 

Meerkat

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So if, while undergoing your permitted daily exercise, you need to sit down on a bench (or brick wall, or even at a bus shelter) for a few minutes to catch your breath, or just have a couple of minutes to sort out an ache or pain or even a loose shoelace, your saying that this isn't allowed?
And again we enter the realm of ‘what about’.....just don’t be a d###!
And I would suggest the wall rather than the bench....
 

Darandio

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So if, while undergoing your permitted daily exercise, you need to sit down on a bench (or brick wall, or even at a bus shelter) for a few minutes to catch your breath, or just have a couple of minutes to sort out an ache or pain or even a loose shoelace, your saying that this isn't allowed?
All that we can simply ask for is people to use their common sense in order to keep themselves and others safe. Unfortunately, this last few weeks has shown that this common sense is severely lacking just like many of us probably suspected, but in far greater quantities than we ever could have imagined.
 

geoffk

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They seem to be going for low hanging fruit
I think "picking on easy targets" is the phrase you're looking for. No problems encountered by me on my walks along the Rochdale Canal. I came across one family having a picnic on a seat and couple of guys fishing! Is that allowed by the regulations? Also I took my camera out and just happened to be in the right place when the biomass train came by!
 

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