Enforcement of the new rules on social distancing, unnecessary journeys etc.

[Bantamzen]

"We don't understand a simple law, we got embarrassed by it, so we're going to moan about it."

As for further restrictions, and people moaning about those in parks, here is a cartoon that sums it up nicely.View attachment 76308

Cartoon shows two people sunbathing in a huge garden, whilst their children play badminton, calling people doing the same in the park selfish. In the background is a block of council-style flats with people on tiny balconies.

This pretty much sums things up at the moment. I can't speak for anywhere else, but in my very little part of the world pretty much everyone is sticking to the guidelines, there are very few people about, hardly any cars on the roads, and even the stores are now pretty quiet. Yet if you browse through a few local social media networks there are many people complaining about all these selfish "others flouting the rules". On a two hour stroll yesterday, my wife and I passed just one family and a couple of other people, so we must have been looking in the wrong place...

 

[ainsworth74]

"We don't understand a simple law, we got embarrassed by it, so we're going to moan about it."

I mean that was my take I have to say!

There might be reasons for stricter measures in the lockdown but the Police wanting an easy life after managing to cause quite a significant amount if self-inflicted PR damage doesn't feel like a particularly good one...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I mean that was my take I have to say!

There might be reasons for stricter measures in the lockdown but the Police wanting an easy life after managing to cause quite a significant amount if self-inflicted PR damage doesn't feel like a particularly good one...

But that can of course be worded differently - not "the Police wanting an easy life" but rather "the Police wanting to make enforcement easier, quicker and smoother and requiring less social interaction to keep their officers safe and to ensure that more enforcement can be done, making the lockdown more effective".

With regard to the "exercise" things there are a number of very minor "tweaks" that would achieve that and stop people driving to honeypots from doing so, but still not stopping anyone who usually exercises from taking the same quantity and intensity of exercise, even if it might be in a less scenic location.

 

[tony_mac]

This pretty much sums things up at the moment. I can't speak for anywhere else, but in my very little part of the world pretty much everyone is sticking to the guidelines, there are very few people about, hardly any cars on the roads, and even the stores are now pretty quiet. Yet if you browse through a few local social media networks there are many people complaining about all these selfish "others flouting the rules". On a two hour stroll yesterday, my wife and I passed just one family and a couple of other people, so we must have been looking in the wrong place...

The vast majority of people are, but in the last couple of days I have seen a number of larger groups.
Apparently, Greater Manchester Police visited over 600 parties last weekend.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-52221688

 

[Tetchytyke]

the Police wanting an easy life after managing to cause quite a significant amount if self-inflicted PR damage

Yup.

Have to say this made me chuckle:



(Cartoon shows two policemen asking each other what they are supposed to be doing, with a tagline saying "If you're a policeman and you're not sure what you're supposed to be doing, ask a policeman.")

 

[CaptainHaddock]

It seems some police forces still don't get it.

Derbyshire Police (yes, them again) have reported issuing a fine to a man who drove from Burton on Trent to Elvaston to go for a walk. Elvaston is a mere 15 miles form Burton and the drive would take no more than 20 minutes; what on earth is unreasonable about that?

Meamnwhile in Northamptonshire their Chief Constable Nick Adderley is suggesting installing road blocks and searching shopping trolleys and appears to be completely unaware he has no legal right to do so!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It seems some police forces still don't get it.

Derbyshire Police (yes, tem again) have reported issued a fine to a man who drove from Burton on Trent to Elvaston to go for a walk. Elvaston is a mere 15 miles form Burton and the drive would take no more than 20 minutes; what on earth is unreasonable about that?

I would agree it is not illegal, but it is totally unnecessary. You really should only be driving if it can't be avoided. We have to stop the honeypotting, people need to exercise locally unless they absolutely can't.

Meamnwhile in Northamptonshire their Chief Constable Nick Adderley is suggesting iinstalling road blocks and searching shopping trolleys and apopears to be completely unaware he has no legal right to do so!

That is beyond ridiculous. If we want to take certain products off the market that should be done by prohibiting their sale.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Meamnwhile in Northamptonshire their Chief Constable Nick Adderley is suggesting iinstalling road blocks and searching shopping trolleys

*sigh*

THIS is precisely why I don't trust the police. Any excuse to start prying into your life. They just can't help themselves.

Quite frankly, to see this coming from the Big Bizzy shows that he's entirely unfit for the role and needs firing. It's such a simple law to understand!

Whether it is borne of stupidity or malice doesn't really matter. It's a massive infringement of what are basic rights in English law.

 

[yorkie]

Meamnwhile in Northamptonshire their Chief Constable Nick Adderley is suggesting iinstalling road blocks and searching shopping trolleys and apopears to be completely unaware he has no legal right to do so!

He has denied this
https://twitter.com/NorthantsChief/status/1248214772186853376

Steve, we won’t search trolleys, a clear directive has been given that we won’t carry out road blocks or decide what is a necessary item or not. The point I made was around the purpose of the journey, not what you’re buying..

 

[ainsworth74]

He has denied this
https://twitter.com/NorthantsChief/status/1248214772186853376

It seems to have come from this press conference where, he does indeed say that they won't be carrying out roadblocks or checking people's shopping. But he does then also go on to say that it can't be ruled out in the future (going so far as to say "we will start to do that")...

(If the link doesn't keep the start time skip to around 3m 7s)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't personally see any issue with roadblocks. Searching trolleys is stupid, though, it would be better to stop selling non-essential items than to criminalise their purchase.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think the problem with policing items and whether they are essential or not is that it would differ person to person. I've seen people say things like chocolate aren't essential but I know for me it is because it's one of the few things I can actually eat without having any sickness issues

 

[yorksrob]

I can't personally see any issue with roadblocks. Searching trolleys is stupid, though, it would be better to stop selling non-essential items than to criminalise their purchase.

I don't even think that there's any justification for forcing shops like supermarkets to stop selling "non-essential" items. I bought some teaspoons on my shop last week. Arguably I could have got by without them, but they were useful and available at the supermarket, so why not.

 

[farleigh]

Police really don't make things easy for themselves sometimes. When he says 'we will do that' with reference to checking through shoppers trolleys, does he not realise that his force has no power to do so? Absolutely zero power.

He should have just delivered a positive message of thanks and said they would continue to enforce the current law.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I would agree it is not illegal, but it is totally unnecessary. You really should only be driving if it can't be avoided. We have to stop the honeypotting, people need to exercise locally unless they absolutely can't.

I agree, but how do you define "local"? Clearly no-one thinks it reasonable for someone to make a 150 mile round trip to Snowdonia to exercise but I would argue that somewhere within 20 minutes of your house is local!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree, but how do you define "local"? Clearly no-one thinks it reasonably for someone to make a 150 mile round trip to Snowdonia to exercise but I would argue that somewhere within 20 minutes of your house is local!

"As short as is necessary to find a safe place to exercise" is what we should be doing. Which for most does not involve driving at all.

 

[Meerkat]

"As short as is necessary to find a safe place to exercise" is what we should be doing. Which for most does not involve driving at all.

Maybe they should have added “only use the car, public transport if it is essential” so your reason and how you are doing it both need to be essential.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe they should have added “only use the car, public transport if it is essential” so your reason and how you are doing it both need to be essential.

That would seem fair. After all, some people will need to use the car to exercise - I can think of three obvious cases - a wheelchair user or someone with another disability who e.g. might find it hard to get past pavement-parked cars (yes, I know, another debate), someone living on a 60mph main road with no pavement (not unusual in the countryside), or someone living in an area or estate where they might not be safe going out alone.

If you live in the vast swathes of average British suburbia, though, you don't really have any excuse for using the car, just go for a run, walk or bike ride from your door.

 

[PaulMc7]

Maybe they should have added “only use the car, public transport if it is essential” so your reason and how you are doing it both need to be essential.

I think it would differ from person to person but I like the idea behind this. I had a few debates with people on Twitter as I can't socially distance effectively because my house is next to a shopping centre with 3 supermarkets, 2 main roads and a train station so the next best option is a 5 min drive to the park but people were saying this isn't essential yet in my eyes, it would be as it's an extremely short distance and only necessary to improve chances of effective social distancing

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it would differ from person to person but I like the idea behind this. I had a few debates with people on Twitter as I can't socially distance effectively because my house is next to a shopping centre with 3 supermarkets, 2 main roads and a train station so the next best option is a 5 min drive to the park but people were saying this isn't essential yet in my eyes, it would be as it's an extremely short distance and only necessary to improve chances of effective social distancing

This would seem reasonable, though it might actually be better to choose somewhere that will be quieter still, e.g. just a random housing estate, if the park is such that properly distancing may prove difficult.

 

[PaulMc7]

This would seem reasonable, though it might actually be better to choose somewhere that will be quieter still, e.g. just a random housing estate, if the park is such that properly distancing may prove difficult.

Yeah, it would certainly be easier if more than one thing was in the same direction. I also have a church operating as a foodbank right across from my house too so that's another issue although it's not been too busy so far. I've only been out once since lockdown started tbh

 

[Bantamzen]

What is it with some Police Forces, they seem almost hell bent on giving themselves bad reputations. Road blocks should only ever be used as an absolute last resort, because key workers could be delayed in getting to their places of employment or getting home after a long shift. And as for searching people's shopping, that's just ridiculous. Even the notion of stopping selling certain items is, after all so long as people aren't going in too often what is wrong with getting a few home comforts along with the regular shop?

 

[Mag_seven]

Clearly no-one thinks it reasonable for someone to make a 150 mile round trip to Snowdonia to exercise

I think you are being a bit kind on the great British public there.

 

[ainsworth74]

What is it with some Police Forces, they seem almost hell bent on giving themselves bad reputations.

I must admit I do find it strange that they're trying to burn through goodwill early in the lockdown when later on they're going to need a lot more goodwill from the public to help maintain it if this does go on for a long time.

 

[Meerkat]

Road blocks should only ever be used as an absolute last resort,

They are being used as a last resort after hordes of people ignored being told not to go to the hills!

 

[bramling]

They are being used as a last resort after hordes of people ignored being told not to go to the hills!

I’m not keen on the idea, but if there’s a problem with people making unnecessary car journeys and/or journeys they shouldn’t be making, then what alternative really is there? There’s already been efforts to close car parks at certain places, but people then simply park elsewhere, sometimes creating different problems.

I’d say locally road use has shot up this week, certainly my journey home today was not far removed from a normal day - in some places I’d say it was worse. Add in a new menace of leisure cyclists all over the place. Banning that would be a start - no one needs to be exercising using a bicycle.

 

[trainophile]

Yes of course they do, what sort of message do you think it sends out having an extended holiday latched onto what is being treated by many as an extended holiday?

So people have missed out on an Easter break? What a crying shame.

How about an extended break for those people who have been keeping things ticking over these last few weeks as a gesture of thanks, as opposed to the facile clapping?

Or perhaps it would be better to cancel as many holidays as possible in order to maximise economic activity?

Seriously, if a missed Easter is the main thing on anyone’s mind at this moment then their priorities are very *seriously* adrift.

Okay, no need to be aggressive. It's no skin off my nose either way, being retired so every day is a holiday, but I thought it would be a gesture to make up to all the working families who haven't been able to go with their usual plans due to obeying the lockdown instructions. I don't agree with the clapping either. I will leave it there.

 

[Tetchytyke]

He has denied this
https://twitter.com/NorthantsChief/status/1248214772186853376

He said they will if people continue to buy "non-essential items". It was a threat- which makes it even worse.

 

[farleigh]

I’m not keen on the idea, but if there’s a problem with people making unnecessary car journeys and/or journeys they shouldn’t be making, then what alternative really is there? There’s already been efforts to close car parks at certain places, but people then simply park elsewhere, sometimes creating different problems.

I’d say locally road use has shot up this week, certainly my journey home today was not far removed from a normal day - in some places I’d say it was worse. Add in a new menace of leisure cyclists all over the place. Banning that would be a start - no one needs to be exercising using a bicycle.

My word - no one needs to be exercising on a bicycle? How joyless!!

What harm does it do anybody?

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I’d say locally road use has shot up this week, certainly my journey home today was not far removed from a normal day - in some places I’d say it was worse. Add in a new menace of leisure cyclists all over the place. Banning that would be a start - no one needs to be exercising using a bicycle.

With idiotic comments like that have you ever considered a career in the police force?