Enforcement of the new rules on social distancing, unnecessary journeys etc.

[Bletchleyite]

Yes I agree exercise is a good thing, and indeed I've been attempting to get in some 7-mile walks where I can. Fortunately I'm happy to do this in the evening and am able to walk from my front door and be in remote countryside within a few minutes, so haven't been encountering many people. I've also been building in some walking to work-related activities as far as possible.

I agree. Sunbathing probably doesn't have much of an impact either, but the reason for suppressing that is to avoid parks getting crowded out and so becoming unsafe.

I think people (who don't work for the NHS) are most likely to catch it either in work or in a supermarket, to be honest, because both of those are putting people indoors reasonably close to each other for a period of time. Therefore it doesn't overly matter if someone goes for a 10 mile walk in the middle of nowhere (though it's prudent to avoid choosing routes where distancing would be hard e.g. narrow canal towpaths and respectful of farmers to avoid paths that go through farmyards because of the risk of spreading it to them or their animals, and you shouldn't be driving to honeypots - basically, if you do have to drive, if there's more than 1 or 2 other cars you chose wrongly), but it certainly is necessary to work from home if at all possible and to go to the supermarket as infrequently as you can.

I'm not convinced there's any harm in buying a telly from Tesco if you were going there anyway, but if you've got two weeks' supply of food in the house then you really need to be ordering one online instead, and only if your existing one's broken, not just because you fancy an upgrade.

The whole point of the whole thing is that you must avoid getting anywhere near people you don't live with, or handling things they've handled, at (almost) all costs.

 

[bramling]

I agree. Sunbathing probably doesn't have much of an impact either, but the reason for suppressing that is to avoid parks getting crowded out and so becoming unsafe.

I think people (who don't work for the NHS) are most likely to catch it either in work or in a supermarket, to be honest, because both of those are putting people indoors reasonably close to each other for a period of time. Therefore it doesn't overly matter if someone goes for a 10 mile walk in the middle of nowhere (though it's prudent to avoid choosing routes where distancing would be hard e.g. narrow canal towpaths and respectful of farmers to avoid paths that go through farmyards because of the risk of spreading it to them or their animals, and you shouldn't be driving to honeypots - basically, if you do have to drive, if there's more than 1 or 2 other cars you chose wrongly), but it certainly is necessary to work from home if at all possible and to go to the supermarket as infrequently as you can.

I'm not convinced there's any harm in buying a telly from Tesco if you were going there anyway, but if you've got two weeks' supply of food in the house then you really need to be ordering one online instead, and only if your existing one's broken, not just because you fancy an upgrade.

The whole point of the whole thing is that you must avoid getting anywhere near people you don't live with, or handling things they've handled, at (almost) all costs.

Your point about being most like to catch it either at work or in the supermarket is probably spot on. I was thinking exactly that whilst at work on Friday, where it's proved very difficult to achieve the full social distancing. To a large extent everyone in my place is following the guidelines pretty strictly, which is reassuring, and thanks to the lockdown it's possible to make a fair crack at achieving this whilst going from or to work - even by train I'm fairly happy with at the moment as it's likely there will be plenty of space at the times I travel (this doesn't stop some idiot coming and sitting at close range though). Personally I don't like supermarkets and shopping anyway, so am only going when absolutely necessary -- any purchases other than food I've pretty much put on hold, although I've had a few things delivered by mail order like books and DVDs - and I think on balance this is no bad thing as it is doing a little bit to help keep money flowing through small businesses who can trade online.

The problem with sunbathing, as well as that if everyone does it then open spaces will become too crowded, is that it's sending out an appalling message to those who are working. Furthermore, people will start to test the boundaries and use it as an opportunity to spend the whole day out, as some already appear to be doing with shopping. We do need to be making an attempt to keep places empty so that key workers can travel to/from work in safety.

Of course if people walked from their front door to a remote spot in the middle of the countryside then people could sunbathe to their heart's content - indeed on our walk last night we did spend about half an hour sitting and admiring the view at a favourite spot. No problem as we didn't see anyone for the whole time. The problem is that most people are simply unable to see beyond their local park, and that's the problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem is that most people are simply unable to see beyond their local park, and that's the problem.

Yes, very true. If I lived in London I'd be pounding the deserted streets of the City, myself, not crowding into Hyde Park.

 

[jellybaby]

What my place would like to see is just a tiny bit of respect from the wider population to the whole current situation.

The vast majority of the wider population are following the law and the guidelines.

Of course if people walked from their front door to a remote spot in the middle of the countryside then people could sunbathe to their heart's content - indeed on our walk last night we did spend about half an hour sitting and admiring the view at a favourite spot. No problem as we didn't see anyone for the whole time. The problem is that most people are simply unable to see beyond their local park, and that's the problem.

It's a long old walk from next to Victoria Park in Tower Hamlets to the countryside.

 

[Bikeman78]

I think it would be very foolish to go down the road of banning outdoor exercise.

If people are flouting the current rules, it's a sign that they aren't being enforced, so what makes them think that new rules, that will be more onerous for the authorities to police, are going to be enforced any more than the existing ones?

I think this is an important point. No matter how tight the rules are, who will enforce them? South Wales Police have little interest in people that drive at 40 in a 20 limit, or the druggies, or the motorbikes/quad bikes without no number plate (and thus presumably no tax/MOT/insurance) ridden by people without helmets. Most people I think are already sticking to the rules. Those that ignore them will carry on ignoring them.

 

[Ivor]

COVID19 is still dangerous and we still need to follow the guidelines about social distancing. The declassification is a technical aspect that means that it can be treated more generally rather than by specialist units based on better understanding around it

Re social distancing I’ve just queued up at a local Tesco Express as essential items need replenishing & as I stood there four lads (early 20s) started to speak to a young couple behind me who they knew about the drink & tobacco they’re stocking up on so I politely asked them to step back & talk from two metres apart as they were literally next to me.

Then WW3 started, abuse & threats plus I’m told not to go out if scared of life, got to admit I’m not one for backing down especially with experience covering CSA at stations on my own.

Seeing the press where there are more than a few issues now re social distancing & groups I realised in about a queue of twenty all younger ages than me (most of the UK is younger than me now ) nobody else ‘stepped up’ they stood there in the main looking at the pavement & a few sniggering.

Maybe I expect too much of the human race? either that or I’m now in the category of ‘a moaning old git’

 

[Bletchleyite]

Then WW3 started, abuse & threats plus I’m told not to go out if scared of life, got to admit I’m not one for backing down especially with experience covering CSA at stations on my own.

I think you'd be justified in calling the Police in such a situation. Though really the store security guards should be intervening in such cases and refusing such people service.

 

[Ivor]

I think you'd be justified in calling the Police in such a situation. Though really the store security guards should be intervening in such cases and refusing such people service.

Yeah agree but the ‘security’ on the door was a young lady late teens (small Tesco Express)

I suppose in hindsight I should have called the police but I’m conscious the services have more than enough on their plate.

Maybe I should have assessed it better & left my spot & gone to the back of the queue & shut up.....equally as I age I do believe respect for older (or anyone over 30 come to that) is long gone from some in our society.

As they keep saying ....STAY SAFE!

 

[Mag_seven]

four lads (early 20s)

And I'd bet they weren't part of the same family or houshold either. These are the sort of people the police should be going after instead of threatening to examine peoples shopping baskets.

 

[Ivor]

And I'd bet they weren't part of the same family or houshold either. These are the sort of people the police should be going after instead of threatening to examine peoples shopping baskets.

No way as one jumped in a car as they departed, two on bikes, one walked another direction.

Yeah agree re the police but suppose damned if they do & damned if they don’t.

 

[bramling]

I think you'd be justified in calling the Police in such a situation. Though really the store security guards should be intervening in such cases and refusing such people service.

Unfortunately this is the sort of situation where the security is then likely to get coughed over.

Many key workers have found themselves on the receiving end of behaviour similar to that described by the OP, in fairness more through ignorance than deliberate, and this is partly why feelings are running rather high.

A minority of the population just haven’t done what was asked of them, and I suspect this is partly why we now seem to regarded as heading to become the worst affected country in Europe. When people should have been distancing from each other they were in suoermarkets fighting over toilet rolls.

 

[joncombe]

One of the houses in my street is rented and just seen the last of the 3 families they have had visiting today (for many hours) leave with a cheery "see you again tomorrow". This is the third day in a row they have had other families visiting and one of the visitors was here yesterday simply abandoned their car in the middle of the street (I live almost at the end of a cul-de-sac), blocking mine and two other neighbours cars in for a couple hours. On Friday one of the residents of this house decided to sit in a chair in the road sun bathing (because their garden doesn't get sun in the afternoon).

I am getting extremely irritated at being stuck in doors whilst this family ignores the restrictions and does exactly what they want. However my local police has this statement at the top of their website "Please only contact us about breaches of the 'stay at home' measures if you feel there is a significant issue or serious breach of the restrictions".

So I haven't reported it as yet because I feel the police have more important things to do, but I'm now in two minds. Is this a serious breach I wonder? In many ways I'm glad the local police are taking a soft approach to the enforcement but at the same time that does lead to the odd few that thinks the rules don't apply to them.

 

[yorkie]

One of the houses in my street is rented and just seen the last of the 3 families they have had visiting today (for many hours) leave with a cheery "see you again tomorrow". This is the third day in a row they have had other families visiting and one of the visitors was here yesterday simply abandoned their car in the middle of the street (I live almost at the end of a cul-de-sac), blocking mine and two other neighbours cars in for a couple hours. On Friday one of the residents of this house decided to sit in a chair in the road sun bathing (because their garden doesn't get sun in the afternoon).

I am getting extremely irritated at being stuck in doors whilst this family ignores the restrictions and does exactly what they want. However my local police has this statement at the top of their website "Please only contact us about breaches of the 'stay at home' measures if you feel there is a significant issue or serious breach of the restrictions".

So I haven't reported it as yet because I feel the police have more important things to do, but I'm now in two minds. Is this a serious breach I wonder? In many ways I'm glad the local police are taking a soft approach to the enforcement but at the same time that does lead to the odd few that thinks the rules don't apply to them.

I would report that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So I haven't reported it as yet because I feel the police have more important things to do, but I'm now in two minds. Is this a serious breach I wonder?

Yes, I'd say it is. Much more so than sunbathing in the park, for instance, because spread is much more likely indoors.

 

[farleigh]

One of the houses in my street is rented and just seen the last of the 3 families they have had visiting today (for many hours) leave with a cheery "see you again tomorrow". This is the third day in a row they have had other families visiting and one of the visitors was here yesterday simply abandoned their car in the middle of the street (I live almost at the end of a cul-de-sac), blocking mine and two other neighbours cars in for a couple hours. On Friday one of the residents of this house decided to sit in a chair in the road sun bathing (because their garden doesn't get sun in the afternoon).

I am getting extremely irritated at being stuck in doors whilst this family ignores the restrictions and does exactly what they want. However my local police has this statement at the top of their website "Please only contact us about breaches of the 'stay at home' measures if you feel there is a significant issue or serious breach of the restrictions".

So I haven't reported it as yet because I feel the police have more important things to do, but I'm now in two minds. Is this a serious breach I wonder? In many ways I'm glad the local police are taking a soft approach to the enforcement but at the same time that does lead to the odd few that thinks the rules don't apply to them.

Definitely taking the proverbial.

The police would probably welcome your report and I think this behaviour warrants it. I don't suppose they are the sort of people to listen to reason (?) - you are perfectly justified.

 

[Mojo]

For instance, for shopping it could have been worded as "Such a journey may only be undertaken where there is an urgent requirement for provisions on which a VAT rate of 0% applies, however it is permitted to purchase other items on a trip started for the former reason provided they are purchased from the same shop"

Why make things more awkward and complicated than they need to be. I haven't got a clue what is 0% VAT rated and I suspect neither do a lot of people. Are you also saying that if I only need "health & beauty" products like razors, shaving foam, bath foam, shampoo or sanitary products etc I can only buy them with *bread and milk (or other 0% rated items)...

*bread and milk that I do not need and would be a complete waste.

I note that some shops put a symbol on the checkout where Vat is applicable, but it's probably not obvious unless you study your receipt carefully.

I suspect the reason the government didn't choose to distinguish between products with Vat and non-Vat (including 0% rated products) was because of the number of products which many people would consider essential that have Vat chargeable. The most well known probably being female sanitary products (until we leave the EU said the Chancellor last month), but also including most confectionary such as chocolate, toilet roll and children's grass seed. Meanwhile, luxury foods such as Oysters, fancy cheeses and cakes, are either zero rated or exempt.

 

[scotrail158713]

One of the houses in my street is rented and just seen the last of the 3 families they have had visiting today (for many hours) leave with a cheery "see you again tomorrow". This is the third day in a row they have had other families visiting and one of the visitors was here yesterday simply abandoned their car in the middle of the street (I live almost at the end of a cul-de-sac), blocking mine and two other neighbours cars in for a couple hours. On Friday one of the residents of this house decided to sit in a chair in the road sun bathing (because their garden doesn't get sun in the afternoon).

I am getting extremely irritated at being stuck in doors whilst this family ignores the restrictions and does exactly what they want. However my local police has this statement at the top of their website "Please only contact us about breaches of the 'stay at home' measures if you feel there is a significant issue or serious breach of the restrictions".

So I haven't reported it as yet because I feel the police have more important things to do, but I'm now in two minds. Is this a serious breach I wonder? In many ways I'm glad the local police are taking a soft approach to the enforcement but at the same time that does lead to the odd few that thinks the rules don't apply to them.

As others have said - report that. Not so much because of the sunbathing, but the frequent visitors.

 

[trainophile]

I heard today of someone who was 'on the spot fined' for being out on his motorbike with his wife on the pillion seat. They were taking medication to the wife's mother. Apparently he was informed that no more than one person should travel in or on any road vehicle. I have searched online for this ruling, but apart from noting that you should not give a friend a lift unless it's to get a key worker to work, I can't see anything about members of the same household being restricted in this way.

Is this another made-up rule by an over-ambitious police officer?

 

[CM]

I heard today of someone who was 'on the spot fined' for being out on his motorbike with his wife on the pillion seat. They were taking medication to the wife's mother. Apparently he was informed that no more than one person should travel in or on any road vehicle. I have searched online for this ruling, but apart from noting that you should not give a friend a lift unless it's to get a key worker to work, I can't see anything about members of the same household being restricted in this way.

Is this another made-up rule by an over-ambitious police officer?

Sounds like it's some overzealous power trip plod. If only one person is allowed in a vehicle then that would obviously mean buses would have to come off the road as they carry more than one person. I think it's about time the Government had a word with the Police and sort them out properly.

 

[scotrail158713]

I heard today of someone who was 'on the spot fined' for being out on his motorbike with his wife on the pillion seat. They were taking medication to the wife's mother. Apparently he was informed that no more than one person should travel in or on any road vehicle. I have searched online for this ruling, but apart from noting that you should not give a friend a lift unless it's to get a key worker to work, I can't see anything about members of the same household being restricted in this way.

Is this another made-up rule by an over-ambitious police officer?

I can’t find any rules that state it as wrong. However it is encouraged that people go out for this kind of thing alone, similar to going to the supermarket. The officer therefore may have been better letting them continue their journey, but encourage them to not do it again.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

My cousin, who is autistic phoned me this afternoon to say he had been fined by the police for driving to a remote beauty spot in the adjacent county to where he lived as he lives in a high-rise flat. He was also asked for his mobile phone number and email address. My cousin, who is very passive, complied with the policeman but was surprised at being given a fine straight away.

Was the policeman right to issue a fine straight off and ask for mobile number etc.? My cousin is now fearful that his movements are going to be tracked (presumably via his mobile phone)

 

[sheff1]

I heard today of someone who was 'on the spot fined' for being out on his motorbike with his wife on the pillion seat. They were taking medication to the wife's mother. Apparently he was informed that no more than one person should travel in or on any road vehicle. I have searched online for this ruling, but apart from noting that you should not give a friend a lift unless it's to get a key worker to work, I can't see anything about members of the same household being restricted in this way.

Is this another made-up rule by an over-ambitious police officer?

Was this in England ? If so, it is another made up 'rule'.

 

[111-111-1]

My cousin, who is autistic phoned me this afternoon to say he had been fined by the police for driving to a remote beauty spot in the adjacent county to where he lived as he lives in a high-rise flat. He was also asked for his mobile phone number and email address. My cousin, who is very passive, complied with the policeman but was surprised at being given a fine straight away.

Was the policeman right to issue a fine straight off and ask for mobile number etc.? My cousin is now fearful that his movements are going to be tracked (presumably via his mobile phone)

It sounds possibly a bit harsh.

We are allowed to drive a short distance for exercise. How far had he driven? and was he going for a walk/run or just taking in the air and view?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

It sounds possibly a bit harsh.

We are allowed to drive a short distance for exercise. How far had he driven? and was he going for a walk/run or just taking in the air and view?

About 40 miles, getting out of town and taking in the air, basically for a "reset" as he is struggling to cope with the changes and being cooped up in a small flat

 

[bramling]

About 40 miles, getting out of town and taking in the air, basically for a "reset" as he is struggling to cope with the changes and being cooped up in a small flat

I think it’s hard to argue a case that 40 miles is anything other than excessive.

 

[CM]

It sounds possibly a bit harsh.

We are allowed to drive a short distance for exercise. How far had he driven? and was he going for a walk/run or just taking in the air and view?

Please quote the piece of legislation that states the maximum permitted driving distance allowed during the lockdown. I bet there isn't a limit.

 

[ashkeba]

I heard today of someone who was 'on the spot fined' for being out on his motorbike with his wife on the pillion seat. They were taking medication to the wife's mother. Apparently he was informed that no more than one person should travel in or on any road vehicle. I have searched online for this ruling, but apart from noting that you should not give a friend a lift unless it's to get a key worker to work, I can't see anything about members of the same household being restricted in this way.

Is this another made-up rule by an over-ambitious police officer?

This is not yet the rule in the UK but it's in some other countries. I do not know why it is not here.

 

[ashkeba]

It's a long old walk from next to Victoria Park in Tower Hamlets to the countryside.

But it is less than an hour's bike ride out past Chigwell or Chingfod, which is why it's important that people can legally do cycling for reasonable period of time to escape the crowded places.

 

[jellybaby]

But it is less than an hour's bike ride out past Chigwell or Chingfod, which is why it's important that people can legally do cycling for reasonable period of time to escape the crowded places.

Which is great if you have a bike. Many people don't have one and don't have the cash to buy one or the space to securely store one.

 

[ashkeba]

Which is great if you have a bike. Many people don't have one and don't have the cash to buy one or the space to securely store one.

Bikes need not expensive and there are recycling projects in most cities but storage space can be a problem. Before my injury, I did used to carry my bike upstairs contrary to the landlords wishes but it is not fun. Now I am fortunate to park it in a friendly neighbour's garage.