Enforcement of the new rules on social distancing, unnecessary journeys etc.

[FGW_DID]

Great attitude! Another “you can’t tell me what to do!”

 

[yorkie]

Great attitude! Another “you can’t tell me what to do!”

Me? If you are telling me I can't do a daily walk/cycle of suitable length then yes you cannot tell me not to.

Apologies if you meant someone else!

edit: after walking 32 miles in 4 days I was considering not doing a walk today. But I am now!

edit2:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52076856

Coronavirus: Stay fit to fight the virus, say medics
...They say people should exercise, have alcohol-free days and quit smoking.

Such measures could make it less likely they'd be admitted to intensive care, says CPOC.

Its deputy director Scarlett McNally, a consultant orthopaedic surgeon, said there has been "a lot of very important advice" on how to cut the risk of becoming infected.

But there was "little on the importance of preparing in case the virus is contracted", she added...

...Experts in China, where the virus originated, "found less fit people with medical conditions were five times more likely to have a worse outcome from Covid-19; and smokers three times more likely to have this result", she added....

edit3: I walked for 5 miles and took 90 minutes today

 

[Graeme]

Those of you advocating that "non-essential" travel does not cover driving to a country park or other beauty spot, etc. as it does not harm or affect anyone else, may wish to consider the following:

I live five minutes' walk from a large coastal nature reserve and country park, one with miles of paths, tracks, large tracts of woods and open spaces. Due to the number of people from elsewhere in the county thinking "oh, it'll be fine to drive up to xxxx because it's quiet there" and descending en masse earlier this week, the whole site was completely closed to the public - along with every other council owned park or reserve in the county. Those of us who live locally have now lost a great place to have our daily exercise, and access to the beach half-a-mile away is effectively prohibited as the only other way would be to drive a couple of miles to get there.

So thanks to everyone who managed to rob the park's local residents of a vital amenity, and somewhere to maintain the 2m separation more easily.

And before anyone thinks I'm just some local NIMBY, I'm an NHS employee who doesn't want to see the emergency services having to deal with people who think it's a good idea to bend the rules to suit themselves. In normal times, we run the risk of accidents and incidents but it's accepted. These are not normal times, the rules aren't perfect as they're being drafted in a hurry. Being an armchair lawyer and telling yourself that nothing in the rules stop you from driving beyond the essential tasks as its unclear regarding exercise does not give you licence to flout the spirit of the law, if not it's actual words. If you're having to get in your car to do exercise at the moment, you may need to give your head a wobble first.

Rant over. I've had a long week and I can foresee the next one being even worse.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I know the police are doing some roadside checks on a busy motorway junction near where my dad lives & they are actually breathalysing drivers too so everyone does need to stay safe, sensible & only make journeys if absolutely necessary.

CJ

 

[DarloRich]

I know I am right to do it and many people I know agree with me.

The idea that the figures you provide above are enough to remain what I would consider suitably active healthy are not figures I accept. They will be the bare minimum and not something to aspire to!

I disagree and this quote \/\/\/\/\/\/\/ is exactly the problem I am highlighting. The intent of the rules is to clearly allow a short daily exercise period in line with NHS guidelines (maintaining social distance) during this crisis. Clearly you wish to interpret them differently and that is your choice. I disagree with your interpretation. @Graeme sets out the view I agree with very well. I think we need to acknowledge these are extraordinary times and our behaviour needs to change to reflect that. That might mean sacrificing some precious exercise for a short period for a greater good. I don't think that will do someone who is fundamentally healthy and follows a healthy balanced diet any long term harm.

Me? If you are telling me I can't do a daily walk/cycle of suitable length then yes you cannot tell me not to.

 

[Graeme]

The news this morning reported that the Irish government are/have brought in rules stating that exercise is only permitted within 2km of home - if that's true, then I can see a similar "clarification" of the UK rules being brought in to prevent the sort of thing we're discussing on this thread.

 

[Meerkat]

The news this morning reported that the Irish government are/have brought in rules stating that exercise is only permitted within 2km of home - if that's true, then I can see a similar "clarification" of the UK rules being brought in to prevent the sort of thing we're discussing on this thread.

i think the Government desperately wants to avoid being that draconian- they are hoping common sense and peer group pressure will keep the muppetry below significant levels.

 

[111-111-1]

I don't mind them asking but they need to accept appropriate/plausible answers and cannot demand ID.

Normally I would get:

• 60 minutes of cycling per week (minimum - if I only go to work or the station each weekday)
• 100 to 180 minutes of vigorous intensity, playing football, per week (depending on how often I play football)
• 60 to 180 minutes of light activity involving football but not playing it competitively; ie. I will be walking or jogging around the pitch and not running at high intensity as it's not competitive for me.
  
• A reasonable amount of walking in the course of a normal working day as some of the jobs I do involve a fair amount of walking
• In addition to this I occasionally go for longer walks or cycle rides, sometimes with forum members

I am therefore going to do a suitable amount of exercise, as I see fit, to replace that. The fact that some people don't want me to do this will make me want to do it even more; I know you like saying "I am not going to change my mind" but guess what? I am not going to change my mind The fact I know you won't change your mind isn't my loss; it's yours!

I know I am right to do it and many people I know agree with me.

The idea that the figures you provide above are enough to remain what I would consider suitably active healthy are not figures I accept. They will be the bare minimum and not something to aspire to!

Keeping up a similar amount of exercise to normal is essential to good health so what you are doing is reasonable.

Suddenly taking up jogging, taking long walks or riding bikes long distances because of COVID19 is not playing by the rules and possibly will unless there is a gradual increase in activity cause other health problems.

Finally the government has only placed a once a day limit not how long it can be. I go out once a day for about an hours walk which broadly replicates my normal daily walking.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The NHS says that you should do at least 150 minutes of moderate intensity activity a week or 75 minutes of vigorous intensity activity a week. That means 25 minutes of moderate activity every day is more than enough.

You'll notice the words "at least".

I think we need to acknowledge these are extraordinary times and our behaviour needs to change to reflect that.

I don't think "we" need to acknowledge any such thing.

If I drive a private motor vehicle that nobody outside my household drives, and I sonehow manage to avoid licking someone not in my household whilst I'm out walking/jogging/cycling, then I won't catch Coronavirus.

Unless you're an idiot and go for a high-speed drive whilst drunk, as some clown here did, then what- precisely and specifically- is the harm?

Due to the number of people from elsewhere in the county thinking "oh, it'll be fine to drive up to xxxx because it's quiet there" and descending en masse earlier this week, the whole site was completely closed to the public

So long as people were observing distance, then the facility should not have been closed. But then I guess the little Hitlers in the local authorities need something to keep themselves looking busy, in case we all notice they're of absolutely no use and put them out of a job.

The news this morning reported that the Irish government are/have brought in rules stating that exercise is only permitted within 2km of home

Leo Varadkar is an absolute dose. If only he cared this much about homeless people, eh.

 

[Bletchleyite]

i think the Government desperately wants to avoid being that draconian- they are hoping common sense and peer group pressure will keep the muppetry below significant levels.

And it has silly side effects, it would for instance cause me to have to run around busier streets than the out-and-back-ish route I usually do which takes me where you don't generally see another person.

(For @DarloRich's benefit, I'm referring to West Bletchley off towards Bottledump up Standing Way and back down the linear park or vice versa - if I go early or late and avoid the warehouse shift changes I will not see a single other person on that route even in normal circumstances but it does take me slightly more than 2km from home. I would be very surprised to see a Police Officer on that route either, but even so I do like to remain within the law in my life generally.)

If they want to clarify it, I'd suggest they should be telling people they must not drive or use public transport to reach the place of exercise.

 

[Harpers Tate]

The news this morning reported that the Irish government are/have brought in rules stating that exercise is only permitted within 2km of home - if that's true, then I can see a similar "clarification" of the UK rules being brought in to prevent the sort of thing we're discussing on this thread.

The advantage of any such "simple" rule is that it is easy to follow and to understand - and to enforce.
The problem with any such simple rules is that (by their nature) they are a blunt instrument.

The closest usable grocery shops are about 3km from my home.
I could
(a) travel to the shop and back by bus (with its attendant risks) and then, separately, take my (2km radius) walk (with a second suite of risk) or
(b) walk to the shop, get my groceries, and walk back - combining two activities into one outing and one (reduced) set of risks.

I know which I'll be doing - unless someone stupidly directs me otherwise.

 

[Meerkat]

Unless you're an idiot and go for a high-speed drive whilst drunk, as some clown here did, then what- precisely and specifically- is the harm?

The harm is that everybody thinks like that, resulting in more traffic and therefore more accidents resulting in more contact and more pressure on the emergency services.

 

[High Dyke]

...
I know which I'll be doing - unless someone stupidly directs me otherwise.

Exactly. I've been doing some work at home in the garden this week. However, I'm considering a walk in my neighbourhood tomorrow - if i cut up through the adjacent street there's a footpath directly onto the hill behind my house. Am i to expect the local plod to taken action against me? I've also walked to/from town for 'essential shopping'.

There's a link between mental wellbeing and physical health, which shouldn't be ignored during the current situation. That said we shouldn't be complacent about things and think it won't happen to me. Sadly it may take some enforcement and publicity to make some people understand.

 

[mark-h]

The news this morning reported that the Irish government are/have brought in rules stating that exercise is only permitted within 2km of home

I would expect a rule like this would be used to prevent people traveling long distances to exercise rather than being strictly enforced.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would expect a rule like this would be used to prevent people traveling long distances to exercise rather than being strictly enforced.

Probably so, for instance as an easy solution to honeypotting - "200 miles to the Peak District isn't 2km from home, go home, here's your £30 fine". Not "you're 2.1km from home, here's your £30 fine".

 

[DerekC]

I drove a mile and a half to our nearest shop to pick up my pre-ordered box of groceries (all very civilised - the shop is closed to normal shoppers but doing a roaring trade). There was very little traffic but in each direction I was overtaken by a (different) small van doing about 20mph over the speed limit, in one case over a blind hump with warning signs! Is there a bit of "there's not much traffic and no speed cameras so I can go as fast as I like" going on?

 

[ChrisC]

I am sorry, but being bored does not make your journey essential!

The regulations seem quite clear to me, it is quite clearly stated that you should be minimising the time spent outside the house, and travelling somewhere else to do your exercise, as opposed to doing it locally, is clearly unnecessarily increasing the time spent outside your house.

It is exactly this kind of selfish "its alright for me to bend the rules" kind of attitude, when applied by thousands of individuals, that led to the crowding in the national parks. It may be safe for you to do it, but only providing other people aren't doing the same.

Once one person starts bending the rules, then you set the precedent for others to bend them even more. If its OK for you to drive somewhere more scenic that you would prefer to exercise, what about those without a car? Surely they should then be allowed to take the train or bus to do the same? Once you start saying that its okay to travel to do exercise, then the buses and trains will start filling with hikers, which is obviously highly undesirable at present.

Anyone using their car to make an unnecessary journey, just because they are bored of their usual walk, is clearly flouting the regulations, and I personally would fully support the police taking action against them.

I think you partly got the wrong point about my post when you quoted that one sentence out of context with everything else I had said.
I was making the point that all those crowds of people, I might even say idiots, who treated last weekend like the beginning of a bank holiday have spoilt it for those who were trying to take a more sensible approach to the situation.
I also pointed out that I live in rural location and therefore I see myself as being very fortunate in having lots of lovely walks straight from my house. I certainly don’t need to travel to somewhere more scenic as I live in an area ideal for walking. I’ve actually rarely seen so many people walking down the lane past my house as I have this week but all have been sensibly keeping a wide distance from each other.
I would certainly not be selfish and bend the rules and will follow the law. Once it became perfectly clear that we were not to take non essential journeys I would not do it.
All I was trying to say was that, as someone who does at least one day each week walking, having to walk in the same area for many months may become a little boring. Unavoidable and essential but nevertheless a bit boring. Again I emphasise that I see myself as being fortunate living in a sought after rural location where I can follow many footpaths straight from my front door. I would not be selfish and irresponsible and drive to exercise miles away from my house.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The harm is that everybody thinks like that, resulting in more traffic and therefore more accidents

There is much less traffic on the roads than normal, so that argument doesn't wash. If you were really worried, or really wanted to discourage long unnecessary journeys, you could bring in temporary speed restrictions, as in the Isle of Man.

A blanket 50mph speed limit would solve more issues than any amount of wibbling about someone daring to go somewhere a few miles from their home because it's prettier.

Many of the "clarifications" from the jobsworths are petty, nothing more nothing less. They just can't bear the thought that someone, somewhere, might still be having fun.

 

[Busaholic]

It's been noticeable during the current crisis how the messages coming from the Chief Medical Officer of Health for Scotland, Dr Catherine Calderwood, vary in detail and nuance from those of her counterpart for England and Wales, Dr Chris Whitty, who has an unfortunate physical resemblance to a less well-fed Chris Grayling. You didn't have to take your media from Scottish sources either to hear them, as she has been interviewed at least three times live on BBC Radio 4 over the last fortnight, two Sundays running on the Broadcasting House programme and then on the 1 p.m. news prog a few days ago. On none of these occasions was she sharing the microphone with a Scottish politician, and she appeared to give honest answers without hesitation or prevarication. She made it clear on the Sunday programmes, both of which were prior to official lockdown restrictions,that it was vital for both physical and mental health in the medium and longer term for the undiagnosed and apparently well to continue to get exercise, fresh air and some contact with other people, although this might be constrained in number and degree of contact.

On the news programme this week, she was asked whether building and construction workers should continue working and she was unequivocal - 'no'. The presenter sounded surprised at her unhesitant reply, and queried why it differed from the position in England and Wales, but she stuck to her guns, said social distancing was impossible to achieve and all such work was banned in Scotland.

 

[Meerkat]

There is much less traffic on the roads than normal, so that argument doesn't wash

You don’t spot the massive logic failure in your argument there?!

 

[Tetchytyke]

said social distancing was impossible to

It is. She's right.

As with any manual labour, you're in close contact with other people and, as with any physical exertion, you're sweating and phlegmming everywhere. It makes sense. One or the other would probably be OK, but not both.

I still think the rules for "normal" life go too far the other way. The night pubs were banned in the UK I went out here (not banned then here), I washed my hands, paid contactless, sat separate to others, and didn't lick either the tables or the other customers. Funnily enough I didn't catch Coronavirus. And it did wonders for my mental health, something which always deteriorates for me when I am isolated.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You don’t spot the massive logic failure in your argument there?!

Huh?

There is no commuting, no long-distance trade driving, because work is banned. So the roads are much quieter.

So if some people decide to drive 15 miles up the road to the countryside, it's *still* going to be quieter and, therefore, make absolutely no difference to anyone apart from the Fun Police.

 

[DarloRich]

I don't think "we" need to acknowledge any such thing.

Ok. You are welcome to your view. Mine is different.

BTW I am not suggesting exercise isn't important. It is. I am just back from my state mandated exercise session. I simply feel SOME people are using that exercise exemption as an excuse to extract the urine. The rules apply to us all and will benefit us all.

And it has silly side effects, it would for instance cause me to have to run around busier streets than the out-and-back-ish route I usually do which takes me where you don't generally see another person.

(For @DarloRich's benefit, I'm referring to West Bletchley off towards Bottledump up Standing Way and back down the linear park or vice versa - if I go early or late and avoid the warehouse shift changes I will not see a single other person on that route even in normal circumstances but it does take me slightly more than 2km from home. I would be very surprised to see a Police Officer on that route either, but even so I do like to remain within the law in my life generally.)

If they want to clarify it, I'd suggest they should be telling people they must not drive or use public transport to reach the place of exercise.

I suspect you will be fine! the police haven't the resources to deal with this situation!

For completeness I am at the other end of the same town and we don't have much open space. The best would be Caldicotte Lake but access on foot form here is not great and meeting someone on the pathways there would not allow for social distancing. The canal towpath is out for the same reason. Leon Rec is very busy at the best of times so i give that a miss. Instead I have just been walking a 40 minutes loop around the local area. Not great but such is life at present.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I simply feel SOME people are using that exercise exemption as an excuse to extract the urine. The rules apply to us all and will benefit us all.

I'd agree on the first bit, undoubtedly they are. I do disagree on the second bit- so long as people keep their distance, I don't see any reason why somebody shouldn't have ten walks a day if they so wished, and I don't see why driving to somewhere nice is an issue. I think the rule is stupid.

As I said above:
Many of the "clarifications" from the jobsworths are petty, nothing more nothing less. They just can't bear the thought that someone, somewhere, might still be having fun.



Certainly when I think back to the studio flat I had in London- with absolutely no outdoor space- I'd definitely be taking ten walks a day. I'd go mad otherwise.

 

[Meerkat]

There is no commuting, no long-distance trade driving, because work is banned. So the roads are much quieter.

they are quiet because not everyone thinks their little journey is more important than community safety....

 

[Tetchytyke]

they are quiet because not everyone thinks their little journey is more important than community safety....

All the schools, shops and workplaces are closed, but sure, "community spirit" is why the roads are quiet

 

[Ianno87]

Huh?

There is no commuting, no long-distance trade driving, because work is banned. So the roads are much quieter.

So if some people decide to drive 15 miles up the road to the countryside, it's *still* going to be quieter and, therefore, make absolutely no difference to anyone apart from the Fun Police.

But still a totally unnecessary journey.

 

[paddington]

I still think the rules for "normal" life go too far the other way. The night pubs were banned in the UK I went out here (not banned then here), I washed my hands, paid contactless, sat separate to others, and didn't lick either the tables or the other customers. Funnily enough I didn't catch Coronavirus. And it did wonders for my mental health, something which always deteriorates for me when I am isolated.

But you were at slightly more risk of getting it than if you had stayed home.

Similarly I suppose that if 1 million people went on a drive that was not absolutely necessary, then there might be 5 accidents that wouldn't have happened. And 1 person might catch the virus from not wiping the PIN pad at the petrol station.

 

[yorkie]

And 1 person might catch the virus from not wiping the PIN pad at the petrol station.

You wouldn't catch it just from that. First of all, the amount that could be on a PIN pad would be tiny, and secondly you would then need to transfer it from your hands to your nose/mouth/eyes, all within a relatively short timeframe for the virus to survive and in sufficient quantities.

Quite frankly if we are talking that level of risk then don't ever take any form of road transport at all as the risks of injury due to road traffic collisions would be far greater.

 

[DarloRich]

They just can't bear the thought that someone, somewhere, might still be having fun.

I am having loads of fun. Thanks.

I'd definitely be taking ten walks a day. I'd go mad otherwise.

Maybe U am just more self contained. I am quite happy and have loads to amuse me.