Engineering Train Derailment at London Victoria (09/07)

[Deepgreen]

Reports in the media that an engineering train has derailed just outside Victoria.

Investigations will follow, but my immediate reaction was - "not another engineering derailment!"

It appears (and it is only my perception) that the number of engineering train derailments/incidents is high enough to warrant questions about the proper application of train operating procedures in the face of ever-increasing time pressures for engineering works.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48919356

An engineering train has derailed in south London. The train partly left the tracks at low speed outside Victoria station at about 03:00 BST.

Network Rail said it was working to remove the train but passengers should "travel later in the day if possible" or seek an alternative route.

The train is stuck across a number of tracks...

 

[talltim]

Video of derailed train from a passing passenger on Twitter
https://twitter.com/tms1967/status/1148514072817741824

 

[Saperstein]

Yep bad day for GTR today what with problems at Gatwick also, passenger injured while alighting a service this morning apparently and points problem on platform 5 at the moment.

Saperstein.

 

[DarloRich]

Reports in the media that an engineering train has derailed just outside Victoria.

Investigations will follow, but my immediate reaction was - "not another engineering derailment!"

It appears (and it is only my perception) that the number of engineering train derailments/incidents is high enough to warrant questions about the proper application of train operating procedures in the face of ever-increasing time pressures for engineering works.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48919356

Goodness me. Do you think there wont be an investigation?

 

[jamesst]

Reports in the media that an engineering train has derailed just outside Victoria.

Investigations will follow, but my immediate reaction was - "not another engineering derailment!"

It appears (and it is only my perception) that the number of engineering train derailments/incidents is high enough to warrant questions about the proper application of train operating procedures in the face of ever-increasing time pressures for engineering works.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48919356

I can assure you there will be questions!
It does come down to perception, maintenance trains derailing outside of service times at strageic points will always attract speculation due to the sheer amount of disruption that follows the following day.

 

[Deepgreen]

I can assure you there will be questions!
It does come down to perception, maintenance trains derailing outside of service times at strageic points will always attract speculation due to the sheer amount of disruption that follows the following day.

Indeed. Would I be wrong in thinking that there are far more engineering derailments than others? I may well be.

 

[bigfoote]

Update I've seen says plats 9 - 13 blocked at Victoria. "Slow line" through Clapham out of use. Any insight as to what the possession was, reading the line may be out of use for at least a day due to repairs being necessary. As a layman, could it be inferred the train has gone across the points set incorrectly/changed under train?

 

[scott118]

Indeed. Would I be wrong in thinking that there are far more engineering derailments than others? I may well be.

When was the last one, prior to this grinder sitting in the dirt today?

 

[E759]

Nice vid on NRSE Twitter feed gas cutting the grinder apart

https://mobile.twitter.com/NetworkRailSE

Also some classic jacking going on

 

[Surreytraveller]

Update I've seen says plats 9 - 13 blocked at Victoria. "Slow line" through Clapham out of use. Any insight as to what the possession was, reading the line may be out of use for at least a day due to repairs being necessary. As a layman, could it be inferred the train has gone across the points set incorrectly/changed under train?

The slow line through Clapham isn't shut. Trains are using it, shunting via the ladder north of Clapham

 

[Surreytraveller]

Yep bad day for GTR today what with problems at Gatwick also, passenger injured while alighting a service this morning apparently and points problem on platform 5 at the moment.

Saperstein.

There is no points problem at Gatwick, and the issue that does exist isn't causing any problems, due to the thinned out service.

 

[alxndr]

As a layman, could it be inferred the train has gone across the points set incorrectly/changed under train?

It is a possibility, although I have no idea whether this is what happened in this case. Even where a "run through" (the term for a train crossing an incorrectly set set of points) doesn't cause a derailment it can cause a significant amount of damage.

 

[furnessvale]

Indeed. Would I be wrong in thinking that there are far more engineering derailments than others? I may well be.

I would be very surprised if there WEREN'T more derailments of engineering trains than others. Remember engineering trains are operating within possessions over track they have often just relayed which is not yet fettled for handing back to operators!

 

[Bromley boy]

Indeed. Would I be wrong in thinking that there are far more engineering derailments than others? I may well be.

I’d strongly suspect the vast majority* of derailments take place in depots where the track is far lower quality than the main line and prone to breaking, points are manually switched, trap points abound etc.

Naturally these tend not to be newsworthy events (although are often highly disruptive if nothing can get in or out of the depot as a result).

*I have no figures to back this up but, off the top of my head, can think of three or four examples at one TOC, just in the last couple of years.

 

[Ploughman]

Am I correct in the belief that the grinder will be unlikely to have been the cause of any problem with the track, as it cannot alter the track alignment?
That does not include any failures on the machine itself.

 

[scott118]

A rail grinder has no lift or line capabilities. The units reprofile railhead contours for extended rail life and smoother operation, thus reducing fuel consumption, operating costs and noise. Grinding also corrects surface damage that could lead to rail fractures.

 

[trainmania100]

Didn't realise the harsco grinders were three cars I thought that looked like two with an extra unit on the front ,. Vid on the tiwtter link on first page looked like one of them lash ups like you get with 158/7s in 3 car

 

[Railcar]

Among the consequences of the derailment was the complete cancellation in the morning of the Sutton to Victoria via Norbury service. That of course included the trains from Epsom Downs station where the advice was to go to Tattenham Corner station! (the stations are at least a mile apart across the Downs and mostly over roads that have no pavement).

Trains from Sutton were skip-stopping to Victoria via Carshalton and using the reversible fast spur at Streatham South Junction to transfer to the Up Brighton Fast with a stop at Clapham Junction on Platform 12.

 

[Edders23]

couldn't have picked a worse spot to come unzipped but judging from the pics on the bbc news site it has been jacked back onto the track.

Sounds like the biggest problem was the loss of platforms at Victoria and a few units stuck in the sidings. Unfortunate but as they say SH^t happens they'll sort it as quick as they can

 

[causton]

That of course included the trains from Epsom Downs station where the advice was to go to Tattenham Corner station! (the stations are at least a mile apart across the Downs and mostly over roads that have no pavement).

To be honest I've done that walk and it isn't very taxing and not overly long... although if I had to be in London for a meeting and rushing from one to the other, I admit I may have a different view on it!

 

[TrainGeekUK]

London Bridge has been very busy this evening.... not helped with the southbound Bank branch of the Northern line out of commission for virtually the whole day, and signal problems affecting the Jubilee line.