England's late 20th century good old days - reality or rose-tinted?

[Philip]

A lot of people in this country like to refer to 'the good old days' of the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s; I've heard people say life was simpler and easier, people were friendlier and had manners and respect, that you could go out in urban areas and leave your front door unlocked, better music, no 'elf and safety', more character etc. Is any of this really true or is it rose-tinted glasses? Despite the problems we've faced over the last 20-30 years, could it even be argued that life is better now than it was in the 60s, 70s and 80s?

 

[Thirteen]

I've never really believed the whole people left the front door open as if burglary is a recent phenomenon which is clearly isn't.

 

[Welly]

The "Good Old Days" - yeah, good if you were a solvent straight white male aged between 21 and 50 without any disability - yeah, I miss them days ... not!

 

[dangie]

I've never really believed the whole people left the front door open as if burglary is a recent phenomenon which is clearly isn't.

I’m 72 so I do remember the 50’s & 60’s etc. Yes from what I remember people wouldn’t leave the doors unlocked when going out. However in most cases the keys were usually left under a brick or on a nail in the coal house. Burglaries were far less common back then or indeed quite rare. If anyone broke in there was b*gger all to nick anyway.

 

[Snow1964]

People were much less stressed then, no social media, they could leave work and relax, no mobile phones, no one expecting emails to be answered outside office hours. No last minute changes of arrangements if agreed to meet friends as they couldn't contact you. Kept it simpler and less stressful.

In most places of work, defined (tea) breaks, and anywhere of any size had a staff canteen, weren't expected to munch a sandwich at your desk and look busy like in some firms today.

But there were harder things too, starting a car in winter before electronic ignition (remember troublesome points, and getting right amount of choke), or having to find and wire up a plug on your new appliance etc

 

[12LDA28C]

If you were a child growing up during one of those decades then clearly there was a good chance you had very few responsibilities or pressure and remember that period with fondness, that is to be expected given that you might not have been aware of, for example the bin men's strike, power shortages, rampant inflation and so on. These are adult concerns but even those who do remember the things that were not so great tend to place less importance on those issues after a generation has passed.

Certainly people had more manners and respect though, at least to a certain extent kids respected their elders and if they didn't they'd get a clip round the ear. Of course the generalisation nowadays is that parents don't discipline their kids resulting in a lack of respect and unruly behaviour.

 

[birchesgreen]

I've never really believed the whole people left the front door open as if burglary is a recent phenomenon which is clearly isn't.

Oh my Nan used to in Liverpool, but the family were so poor the burglars would bring more stuff.

 

[Gloster]

It depends on what you want. If you want an enormous choice of entertainments and leisure activities, all sorts of ways of communicating and keeping up with things, a wide variety of devices that make daily life simpler, etc., then maybe you are better off now. If you don’t want to constantly worry how you are going to pay for everything, whether the world is going to self-destruct in your childrens’ (or even your) lifetime, fear being victim of a far wider variety of crime than used to exist, etc., well maybe the last century was better. It is a personal choice, but not an easy one.

I once mentioned to my father (born 1928, died 2011) that he was lucky to have lived through the best period to be alive (World War II taken into consideration). For the rest of us it is downhill.

 

[Thirteen]

I've always roll my eyes at the suggestion that kids and teenagers had more respect for their elders in the past. Clearly I imagined things like West Side Story, Grease, Brighton Rock, bands like the Sex Pistols etc then...

 

[Calthrop]

Will confess that hearing any stuff of this kind, makes me roll my eyes and disregard it. This is in my opinion, a habitual thing which humans do; and have done ever since there have been humans -- entertaining the notion that back in their youth, life was easier and more pleasant, and folk were better-behaved, than has come to be the case in the person's declining years. Learned ancient Greeks were wont to write, in the times when they were in or approaching old age: of how disrespectfully / riotously / selfishly / disgustingly, young people behaved -- doing stuff which would have been unimaginable when the writer was young. To me, an age-old delusion -- every generation engages in it; with variations in detail, mankind continues ever to carry on pretty much the same.

 

[dangie]

Will confess that hearing any stuff of this kind, makes me roll my eyes and disregard it. This is in my opinion, a habitual thing which humans do; and have done ever since there have been humans…..

You are probably correct. Most probably when my children/grandchildren are my age (72) they too will look back at the ‘old days’ with some fondness. That is of course as has already been mentioned there will be a future to look back from. That’s a cheery thought isn’t it……

 

[Scotrail12]

As a 2001 baby, I'd have been curious to live through the 90s. Any earlier than that, nah. Too much oppression in too many countries. I'm not really envious of previous generations' lives.

Certainly I do have nostalgia for the 2000s before social media and technology really took over things though that may be because I was a child then.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

If you were a child growing up during one of those decades then clearly there was a good chance you had very few responsibilities or pressure and remember that period with fondness, that is to be expected given that you might not have been aware of, for example the bin men's strike, power shortages, rampant inflation and so on.

Nail on the head!

 

[nlogax]

Rose-tinted in the extreme. Life in the past was Not Great in myriad ways, all of which tend to be forgotten or rarely discussed. Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think people hark back to childhood as better times because when you're a kid you have basically no significant responsibilities and so more time to enjoy life.

Obviously there are exceptions, e.g. those who were severely bullied or abused (and there was a lot more of that back then, sadly), but for most childhood will be halcyon days regardless of whether it was in 1960 or 2023.

 

[Snow1964]

I've always roll my eyes at the suggestion that kids and teenagers had more respect for their elders in the past. Clearly I imagined things like West Side Story, Grease, Brighton Rock, bands like the Sex Pistols etc then...

Prior to Sunday shopping, there was lot more of formalised Sunday lunch and regularly visiting (or visited by) Grandparents. So good behaviour and respect were emphasised and embedded from young age more.

Probably no coincidence that the riots of about 20 years ago all happened in areas that had been bending the then Sunday Trading rules and thus weakened the unwritten respect rules instilled by senior members of one's family.

Of course, not as tough as my grandfather told it when visiting their grandparents (probably just before WW1) when children had to stand still at side of room, don't fidget, be quiet, not speak unless spoken to etc. Most 10 year olds wouldn't know what hit them if rules like that existed now.

 

[nw1]

A lot of people in this country like to refer to 'the good old days' of the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s; I've heard people say life was simpler and easier, people were friendlier and had manners and respect, that you could go out in urban areas and leave your front door unlocked, better music, no 'elf and safety', more character etc. Is any of this really true or is it rose-tinted glasses? Despite the problems we've faced over the last 20-30 years, could it even be argued that life is better now than it was in the 60s, 70s and 80s?

I wasn't around in the 60s and barely remember the 70s. In the 80s I was a child or teenager (to give a rough indication of my age, the 1992 General Election was the first one I could vote in) so didn't really see it through an adult's eyes. So I don't think I can honestly comment on the 80s from an adult point of view. Thus, while I don't like 80s politics (Thatcher) I liked 80s culture and especially music, as well as 80s railways

I'd definitely say the 90s and 00s (and in particular, the period between about 1995 and 2006 when there was no recession) were better than the 2020s, and to a lesser extent the late 2010s.

I would say a lot of the current problems are down to the after-effects of Covid, so it's difficult to be completely objective: I think most would agree that the 2020s have been a grim decade so far, but without Covid and its after effects things wouldn't have been nearly so bad.

Nonetheless, there are some unfavourable trends, in my opinion, which were coming in even before Covid. Given we're talking about England, specifically, the country seemed to be more liberal and tolerant in the years round the millennium. The currently-favourable views regarding anti-immigration policies and leaving the EU, for example, was fomerly seen as fringe views, held only by aging Conservative backbench MPs, pub bores, and some minority parties.

But more than that, the country had better public services and more character. We've been closing pubs left, right and centre since the late 00s and many shops in town centres have closed. Banks and post offices have been closing. Rural bus services have been steadily declining: go back 20 years and the situation was much better.

We also had much more national culture and real and genuine reasons for national pride in the past. British pop music arguably peaked in the 40 years or so starting in about 1963, and the world saw Britain as an international centre of pop music. Seems to be much less the case now. We had real reasons for national pride back then, rather than the meaningless faux-pride of Brexit.

Most of this is market forces, admittedly, and not restricted to England, but a global phenomenon.

 

[AlterEgo]

One definitely major shift in my lifetime has been the birth of online and internet culture. I am 36 and can remember not having a mobile phone until I was 14. A few friends didn't have them until they were 16.

As an example of how culture has changed, I went to school in Aylesbury and lived in Leighton Buzzard, and my best friend lived in Wendover. He didn't have a mobile phone, so if we agreed to meet in Aylesbury on a Saturday, we both had to pre-agree a time and place, and trust the other to turn up. If his bus broke down, well, that was that - a day wasted. No such thing as a text saying "turning into the bus station now".

 

[Bletchleyite]

As an example of how culture has changed, I went to school in Aylesbury and lived in Leighton Buzzard, and my best friend lived in Wendover. He didn't have a mobile phone, so if we agreed to meet in Aylesbury on a Saturday, we both had to pre-agree a time and place, and trust the other to turn up. If his bus broke down, well, that was that - a day wasted. No such thing as a text saying "turning into the bus station now".

Generally we'd wait a reasonable time. If a train was cancelled, say, we'd assume they'd be on the next one, and if not give up.

One of my schoolmates didn't have a telephone at all. He went to a payphone if he wanted to call, and so I couldn't call him. (As a result, just showing up at peoples' houses was far more common).

 

[nw1]

I think people hark back to childhood as better times because when you're a kid you have basically no significant responsibilities and so more time to enjoy life.

True, hence my favourable opinion of the 80s despite being in no way a fan of Thatcher.

However I find that, more than that, I find myself harking back to the years round the millennium: the second half of the 90s, and much of the 00s (see post above) when I was an adult, and did have to work.

Obviously there are exceptions, e.g. those who were severely bullied or abused (and there was a lot more of that back then, sadly), but for most childhood will be halcyon days regardless of whether it was in 1960 or 2023.

I think that's true but I suspect the percentage of adults over the age of 25 having a favourable opinion of 2023 will be much lower than the percentage of adults over 25 at the time having a favourable opinion of say 2013, 2003, 1993 or 1983. I've said "over the age of 25" because student years are also subject, I suspect, to positive bias in the same way that childhood is.

 

[AlterEgo]

Generally we'd wait a reasonable time. If a train was cancelled, say, we'd assume they'd be on the next one, and if not give up.

One of my schoolmates didn't have a telephone at all. He went to a payphone if he wanted to call, and so I couldn't call him. (As a result, just showing up at peoples' houses was far more common).

Yes, that's another thing - "knocking for people". Doesn't happen now really, it's mostly preceded by a text.

The internet and mobile phones have enabled us to live more siloed lives - it's easier than ever to get out of that silo, also thanks to the internet (!), but it does feel like more people are left behind.

 

[RichJF]

Growing up in the late 90s/early 00s certainly was a much more relaxed, fun time to discover your adolescence & the world.

"Just" the right amount of technology without it becoming intrusive & all-consuming as today.

 

[Thirteen]

The 1990s benefitted from the fact that a long of big events happened like the end of the Cold War, the Conservatives 18 years of power ruling and it was like the World was opening up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The internet and mobile phones have enabled us to live more siloed lives - it's easier than ever to get out of that silo, also thanks to the internet (!), but it does feel like more people are left behind.

One example there is those of us who are IT minded. I used to do a lot of coding when I was a kid, but there weren't easy mechanisms to get it out there - even as freeware you had to write to separate public domain libraries and see if they would accept it. If I was say 13-14 today I'd almost certainly have a small business selling some sort of mobile apps.

 

[DustyBin]

Growing up in the late 90s/early 00s certainly was a much more relaxed, fun time to discover your adolescence & the world.

"Just" the right amount of technology without it becoming intrusive & all-consuming as today.

I’m not old enough to remember anything pre-90s, but I’m not convinced that earlier decades were really all that good to be honest. Seemingly a lot of people who were around at the time agree!

I’m with you regarding the late 90s/early 00s though.

 

[nw1]

I’m not old enough to remember anything pre-90s, but I’m not convinced that earlier decades were really all that good to be honest. Seemingly a lot of people who were around at the time agree!

I’m with you regarding the late 90s/early 00s though.

Interesting that a lot of us are converging on that era, irrespective of our actual age, though even I wasn't so very old in this period (in the second half of my 20s at the millennium).

I wonder if people rather older, born between say 1940 and 1955, would also rate the late 90s and early 00s highly? If all generations are rating this period well, it does seem to lend weight to the theory that it was, indeed, a relatively "good" time.

 

[DustyBin]

Interesting that a lot of us are converging on that era, irrespective of our actual age, though even I wasn't so very old in this period (in the second half of my 20s at the millennium).

I wonder if people rather older, born between say 1940 and 1955, would also rate the late 90s and early 00s highly? If all generations are rating this period well, it does seem to lend weight to the theory that it was, indeed, a relatively "good" time.

It’s difficult to be totally objective as I was a teenager at the time, but it just seemed to have right “balance”. I’m not sure living standards have notably improved in the intervening years, yet life seems much more complicated. I have teenage relatives and don’t envy them; they seem to carry a lot of weight on their shoulders relative to me at their age.

 

[deltic]

Prior to Sunday shopping, there was lot more of formalised Sunday lunch and regularly visiting (or visited by) Grandparents. So good behaviour and respect were emphasised and embedded from young age more.

Probably no coincidence that the riots of about 20 years ago all happened in areas that had been bending the then Sunday Trading rules and thus weakened the unwritten respect rules instilled by senior members of one's family.

Of course, not as tough as my grandfather told it when visiting their grandparents (probably just before WW1) when children had to stand still at side of room, don't fidget, be quiet, not speak unless spoken to etc. Most 10 year olds wouldn't know what hit them if rules like that existed now.

So how do you explain the series of riots that happened in the early 1980s across many cities?

 

[Techniquest]

Being born late 1984, the 1990s have some amount of nostalgia for me but not much. Like others have already said, the 2000s are where I get nostalgic. Towards the end of 2003 I discovered the joy of railways, and while still very immature back then (which makes me cringe when I think back!) I do kind of miss the early-to-mid-2000s. It was a very different time, without social media and online presence possible everywhere. Mobile phones were basic, but would hold charge for days on end.

Stuff like that I do miss, but I absolutely don't miss being in the dark with train times and running information, for one big example. Things like Real Time Trains has been incredibly useful, an absolute game-changer for things like a full day out on a rover ticket for one example. Other things I wouldn't want to go without now, which if I'd had 20 years ago may have led to me having a completely different lifestyle:

- GPS on smartphones, and the ability to keep track of one's activity in apps like Strava, MapMyRide etc.

- Huge mobile data allowances, meaning there's no need to keep checking how much one has left. My first smartphone had an allowance of just 250MB of data per month!

- Easy access to things like online maps for free, and the ability to download digital OS maps for a fee. On a related note, being able to use said free maps to have a search around an area to see what's there before visiting and not getting bowled out by a lack of shops/opening hours

- Being able to take photos/video without the need for separate equipment. I don't miss that at all, I get oddly nostalgic sometimes when I see disposable cameras in Asda and I remember how commonplace that sort of thing used to be, but I couldn't go back to that now.

- Similarly, being able to access music without the need for extra devices like portable CD players, thanks to services like YouTube, Apple Music and others. I don't miss things like having to make sure the CD player was on a flat surface, or having to carry spare batteries with me for my devices, or indeed planning in advance what music I wanted to play during a trip!

There's plenty of other things I don't miss, but I still remember the 2000s with some nostalgic goggles. Now I'm pretty much middle-aged, and while there's so many good things going on now compared to back then, I have fondness for the days when I was still naive and had a lot less concerns etc.

Not that I'm saying everything is bleak now, far from it. Personally, despite not being where I want to be with physical health, I'm not far from it and I have plenty of opportunity to sort that out. Back in the 2000s, I was far from fit and I led a pretty sedentary lifestyle. The end of the 2010s saw that finally change, and the early 2020s have been hugely dreadful for many things but it has also been when I took more steps forward to being an improved version of myself, and there's still more to come

In short, nostalgia is great for a bit, you know when you're feeling it and go 'Oh yeah I remember that, wow things have changed' etc. However, I much prefer to live in the here and now! Things are getting better and long may that continue! I cannot imagine what the world would be like if recycling was not as big a thing as it became. I cannot imagine how bad the world would have become if we'd not started being much more environmentally friendly in general, if society as a whole never moved forward with public health concerns.

Personally, right now I'm looking forward to reflecting on the 2020s when I hopefully reach the 2040s. If in 2043 I can look back and think 'yeah, it was a good era, but wow we are so much better off now' then I'll be happy.

 

[deltic]

It depends on what you want. If you want an enormous choice of entertainments and leisure activities, all sorts of ways of communicating and keeping up with things, a wide variety of devices that make daily life simpler, etc., then maybe you are better off now. If you don’t want to constantly worry how you are going to pay for everything, whether the world is going to self-destruct in your childrens’ (or even your) lifetime, fear being victim of a far wider variety of crime than used to exist, etc., well maybe the last century was better. It is a personal choice, but not an easy one.

I once mentioned to my father (born 1928, died 2011) that he was lucky to have lived through the best period to be alive (World War II taken into consideration). For the rest of us it is downhill.

People were terrified by the prospect of a nuclear war in the 1960s, there were a number of films/programmes about the consequences of such a war that were banned by the BBC at the time. In the 1970s the government were sending copies of "Protect and survive" to every home saying what you should do in the case of a nuclear war. Car crime was rampant, every hoodlum knew how to hot wire a car, sexual and racial harassment was endemic.