England's new three-tier lockdown system

[Howardh]

I'm getting tons of twitter stuff that my town (Bolton) will be in tier 2 with Greater Manchester, meaning the pubs will be open until 10pm. Dodge a bullet there, and that means travel should be allowed. Also hearing that Merseyside will be on extreme levels, but if travel isn't banned won't they come over to Manchester? So all seems a ppintless exercise.

But waiting for the actual conformation of the level, but surely the local councils know already?

 

[MattA7]

As much as I like going to the pub I am sure I could cope without, if needs be.

What I cannot cope without is any other human interaction, nor being confined to my local area, nor being able to visit and stay with my support bubble, and having to live like a hermit in solitary confinement for a prolonged period.

I think this is the issue I have and why the restrictions are having such a impact on both my physical and mental health. I don’t drink so pubs being closed isn’t a major issue with me (I’ve only been in a pub twice in my adult life)

living in a small rundown rural town the travel restrictions are a nightmare. pre lockdown I had evening college classes, attend place of worship in the nearest city and family would visit every 6 weeks. Now all of that is gone and unfortunately looks like it will be for the foreseeable future.

The only place I’ve been since March is the local supermarket and takeaway occasionally. depression and anxiety is through the roof. My insomnia is worse than ever and I have lost a considerable amount of weight even though I was already severely underweight as it is. I live in Scotland so the 3 trie system doesn’t apply but sturgeon has her own pathetic restrictions in place.

 

[Trackman]

I'm getting tons of twitter stuff that my town (Bolton) will be in tier 2 with Greater Manchester, meaning the pubs will be open until 10pm. Dodge a bullet there, and that means travel should be allowed. Also hearing that Merseyside will be on extreme levels, but if travel isn't banned won't they come over to Manchester? So all seems a ppintless exercise.

But waiting for the actual conformation of the level, but surely the local councils know already?

This is breaking news in the last hour.
An Oldham MP has been quoted on saying Greater Manchester will be in Tier 2.
Although he only mentions Oldham, all the major news outlets are now saying the whole of Greater Manchester.

Jim McMahon tweeted: "Call with the Secretary of State confirms GM will be placed in Tier 2 with household restrictions on meeting indoors in any setting, but not outdoors Pubs serving food remain open Oldham will be removed from its enhanced lockdown measures and brought into line with GM *at last*."

edit:
Just pubs serving food?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Predictably of course Sturgeon says she will also have a 3 tier system "closely aligned" (but no doubt different) to the rest of the UK. She also comments, according to the BBC, that at the COBRA meeting this morning "professional advisors" said the Tier 3 restrictions didn't go anywhere near far enough.

 

[Howardh]

This is breaking news in the last hour.
An Oldham MP has been quoted on saying Greater Manchester will be in Tier 2.
Although he only mentions Oldham, all the major news outlets are now saying the whole of Greater Manchester.


edit:
Just pubs serving food?

No, in T2 it's as you were. However there does appear to be a situation where in the most severe tier (3?) that those pubs which serve food "substantially" can stay open, the rest shut. I'm following twitter on this so it could be complete ...... ahem.

It'll all come clear when Boris addresses the nation. And I'm off to spend this £500k on a new Lambo.

there are only so many pigs that can fly at the same time....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Predictably of course Sturgeon says she will also have a 3 tier system "closely aligned" (but no doubt different) to the rest of the UK. She also comments, according to the BBC, that at the COBRA meeting this morning "professional advisors" said the Tier 3 restrictions didn't go anywhere near far enough.

So you can conclude that Sturgeon's level 3 will be full lockdown, then?

No, in T2 it's as you were. However there does appear to be a situation where in the most severe tier (3?) that those pubs which serve food "substantially" can stay open, the rest shut. I'm following twitter on this so it could be complete ...... ahem.

In all seriousness, if alcohol is the issue, then why not just ban the sale of that for consumption on the premises?

 

[S&CLER]

How can a travel ban from one part of England to another be enforced? I'm interested because I'm due to lead a walking club holiday from Southport (in the Merseyside city region) to North Devon on the 26th. I sent all tickets, luggage labels, Covid guidance and itineraries out on Friday (22 letters). If our coach firm (Alfa) says it has to cancel because of government panic, that will be the second holiday, each costing nearly £8000, this year, for which I have had to refund 36 passengers. For the first one, the cash refunds and credit notes came in 5 or 6 weeks. This time I will insist on cash, as most of those who took credit notes for the cancelled April holiday in mid-Wales eventually cashed them in.

 

[Howardh]

How can a travel ban from one part of England to another be enforced? I'm interested because I'm due to lead a walking club holiday from Southport (in the Merseyside city region) to North Devon on the 26th. I sent all tickets, luggage labels, Covid guidance and itineraries out on Friday (22 letters). If our coach firm (Alfa) says it has to cancel because of government panic, that will be the second holiday, each costing nearly £8000, this year, for which I have had to refund 36 passengers. For the first one, the cash refunds and credit notes came in 5 or 6 weeks. This time I will insist on cash, as most of those who took credit notes for the cancelled April holiday in mid-Wales eventually cashed them in.

Sympathies. I'm amazed there's a travel industry left, even domestic.

On another thread I posted, last week, that I intended to visit the national Tram Museum this week. then cam enews of the possible lockdown and inability to travel, so that's now been abandoned due to the uncertainty. So the rail doesn't get my fare, and the tram museum doesn't get my entrance fee + food/drink. Like yourself, in normal times I could have got up quite a gaggle of tram fans to go on a coach.

 

[WelshBluebird]

In all seriousness, if alcohol is the issue, then why not just ban the sale of that for consumption on the premises?

Tbh I think the main issue there would be enforcement, especially in the more "local" pubs!

How can a travel ban from one part of England to another be enforced? I'm interested because I'm due to lead a walking club holiday from Southport (in the Merseyside city region) to North Devon on the 26th. I sent all tickets, luggage labels, Covid guidance and itineraries out on Friday (22 letters). If our coach firm (Alfa) says it has to cancel because of government panic, that will be the second holiday, each costing nearly £8000, this year, for which I have had to refund 36 passengers. For the first one, the cash refunds and credit notes came in 5 or 6 weeks. This time I will insist on cash, as most of those who took credit notes for the cancelled April holiday in mid-Wales eventually cashed them in.

I'm going to be pretty blunt - did you really book that without considering what may happen if circumstances change?

I appreciate it isn't a nice position to be in, but it has been pretty obvious to me that any trip booked atm is basically being booked under risk of having to be cancelled.
Please don't take this as an attack or me having a go, but I booked a trip also to North Devon for the start of September, with the full understanding and slight expectation that it could be cancelled. Thankfully it wasn't, but I was prepared for that situation to happen (and to potentially lose the money along with the cancellation).

Ignoring government restrictions for a second - surely it could have easily been yourself and anyone else involved in leading / organising the trip needing to self isolate that would have caused issues with the trip too?

I wouldn't know. I have not been to the pub since this all started but apparently the atmosphere just is not the same so I guess rather quiet.

I've not either, and my local pub only opened last Thursday so unlikely to last a week.
I feel guilty not going in supporting them, but the atmosphere would definitely not be same plus I cannot sit or stand at the bar- my usual haunt with friends. Table service only so I could be stuck on my own or near someone I'd rather not.

I guess it depends on your pub of choice and what your normal is usually like there!
I've been to a few different pubs with some friends over the last 2 months and the vast majority still did have a good atmosphere! Sure quieter than normal, but still fun with some friends. Granted I can see that if you are usually the type the sit at the bar etc then the current situation may well take away the enjoyment! And some pubs certainly are managing the whole situation better than others atm - there certainly is a balance to be found with the restrictions.

 

[Howardh]

I think the address to the nation is now 7pm, put back from 6pm. I'll watch it in the pub.

If this doesn't work in bringing infections down, and it lasts four weeks, then do we have a stronger lockdown from mid-November, which will hit office parties and the like in mid-December?

 

[Bletchleyite]

There will not be any office parties this year. Best case would be a slackening of the rule of 6 for a short period to allow for family get togethers on Christmas Day and Boxing Day. And that's best case. Worst is a Zoom Christmas this year.

 

[Yew]

I think the address to the nation is now 7pm, put back from 6pm. I'll watch it in the pub.

If this doesn't work in bringing infections down, and it lasts four weeks, then do we have a stronger lockdown from mid-November, which will hit office parties and the like in mid-December?

Office parties? My work is going to the assumption that we're not going to have any.

 

[S&CLER]

Tbh I think the main issue there would be enforcement, especially in the more "local" pubs!



I'm going to be pretty blunt - did you really book that without considering what may happen if circumstances change?

I appreciate it isn't a nice position to be in, but it has been pretty obvious to me that any trip booked atm is basically being booked under risk of having to be cancelled.
Please don't take this as an attack or me having a go, but I booked a trip also to North Devon for the start of September, with the full understanding and slight expectation that it could be cancelled. Thankfully it wasn't, but I was prepared for that situation to happen (and to potentially lose the money along with the cancellation).

Ignoring government restrictions for a second - surely it could have easily been yourself and anyone else involved in leading / organising the trip needing to self isolate that would have caused issues with the trip too?





I guess it depends on your pub of choice and what your normal is usually like there!
I've been to a few different pubs with some friends over the last 2 months and the vast majority still did have a good atmosphere! Sure quieter than normal, but still fun with some friends. Granted I can see that if you are usually the type the sit at the bar etc then the current situation may well take away the enjoyment! And some pubs certainly are managing the whole situation better than others atm - there certainly is a balance to be found with the restrictions.

Yes, I knew there was a risk (for the October holiday, that is, not for the April one, which was booked last year). I also knew that as long as the tour was cancelled by the (solvent) coach firm and not by us, we would eventually get all our money back, so it would be a nuisance but not a disaster. The fairly prompt refunds for the first holiday were sufficiently reassuring in my judgment. If I had to self-isolate, I would ask someone else, maybe another committee member, to step in.

 

[LAX54]

So we 'lockdown a bit' certain areas, but that will of course not mean no one travels in / out of the 'infected zone', so will still find its way around !

 

[Jamesrob637]

Cue loads of people looking at future lives in Devon and Cornwall having only had experience there as a child in the back seat of a Ford Sierra in the 1990s

 

[kristiang85]

I think the address to the nation is now 7pm, put back from 6pm. I'll watch it in the pub.

If this doesn't work in bringing infections down, and it lasts four weeks, then do we have a stronger lockdown from mid-November, which will hit office parties and the like in mid-December?

I doubt anybody will be having office parties this year. Ours are already off.

In all seriousness, if alcohol is the issue, then why not just ban the sale of that for consumption on the premises?

I doubt pubs would be able to open if that happened. The beer-only drinkers would just stay at home, and many people enjoy wine/beer with a meal, so would probably also stay at home maybe. I just can't see it being viable to pay staff to open if there is so much to not entice the customer in.

 

[LAX54]

It does seem on the face of it that China went for elimination initially in Wuhan, which to be fair wasn’t entirely unreasonable at the point where there was still a valid hope that it might have been confined. Italy then copied, again seemingly partly because their outbreak was heavily focussed on one specific area.

From there it certainly seems to be the case that there’s been a copycat effect.

I have to say I’m not entirely convinced we’d have had such good results as Sweden, as we just don’t seem to have the mentality they have there. We also have the disadvantage of a very high population density (though Scotland is considerably less dense, and they don’t seem to be deriving much benefit from that?). On balance however whilst we might not have got as good a result as Sweden it would almost certainly have been better than the current “worst of all worlds” approach we seem to have here.

It was copycat one Country after another, and now they have not got a scooby what to do, they know it is not that much worse than a bad influenze year, but they are all in a corner, having runaway from it, and of course it will keep coming back to bite until we say 'just get on with it' ! even Italuy said a month or more ago they over reacted, based on China and Facebook hysteria

 

[Howardh]

I doubt pubs would be able to open if that happened. The beer-only drinkers would just stay at home, and many people enjoy wine/beer with a meal, so would probably also stay at home maybe. I just can't see it being viable to pay staff to open if there is so much to not entice the customer in.

I would have thought that after 10pm they would have "drinking up" time + the ability to sell snacks, soft drinks and coffee etc until any time they choose, to stop the saturday night crush on the surrounding streets etc. Throwing out everyone at the same time is just causing chaos in some places.

 

[Trackman]

Boris is speaking in the commons now about the new tear tier system.

 

[Howardh]

Boris is speaking in the commons now about the new tear tier system.

I think I'll give that a miss.
Listening to him only makes things worse.

 

[Trackman]

He's unclear about Greater Manchester, only Liverpool is going to be Tier 3 on Wednesday at the moment.
Some sort of debate about other areas tomorrow.

 

[greyman42]

In all seriousness, if alcohol is the issue, then why not just ban the sale of that for consumption on the premises?

Alcohol is what the vast majority of people go to the pub for.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Alcohol is what the vast majority of people go to the pub for.

It is, but if you support your local pub, you would still go there for food and soft drinks/coffee, unless you really don't care for the business in which case you deserve to lose it.

 

[birchesgreen]

There will not be any office parties this year.

Finally a bright spot in this whole affair.

 

[Yew]

Is there any formal word about what the tiers will be?

 

[takno]

Office parties? My work is going to the assumption that we're not going to have any.

I think the policy is "have it in the office, and for the love god don't tell the damn Covid warden"

 

[Huntergreed]

I think the policy is "have it in the office, and for the love god don't tell the damn Covid warden"

That has certainly been my experience of it so far, at least with most of the people I know.

 

[al78]

Surely it would be impractical to have different time between Northern Ireland and the rest of Ireland?

America manages with different time zones, and even locally where daylight saving time is and isn't implemented.

(2:15)

I live in the Greater Manchester area and sadly we will fall into Tier 3.

Greater Manchester is in tier 2, at least according to the news sources I have looked up.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Greater Manchester is in tier 2, at least according to the news sources I have looked up.

Just been reading it. There is a village called Billinge just up the road from me - one half comes under St Helens Council (Merseyside) while the other comes under Wigan Council (Greater Manchester), so I can imagine that's going to be a very bizarre situation for many residents.

CJ

 

[Chester1]

America manages with different time zones, and even locally where daylight saving time is and isn't implemented.

(2:15)



Greater Manchester is in tier 2, at least according to the news sources I have looked up.

Greater Manchester has 9 Tory MPs and all of them represent marginal seats....

Interesting off topic conversation - The obvious solution would be to switch to GMT all year around alongside Republic of Ireland which is more suited to GMT than GB.