British heritage lines which are returning to normal, post Covid-19 restrictions.

[Solent&Wessex]

Just back from an excellent day out to the KWVR today, and would thoroughly recommend. Completely back to ‘normal’ normal with all stations open, tickets bought on the day, no silly mask requirements and most importantly the real ale buffet car open. For anyone worried about Covid the train included a suburban compartment coach but for me to be sat with a pint in the buffet with a great atmosphere as we steamed out of Keighley it was almost like the past 18 months had been a bad dream. If any volunteers are on here a huge well done to all involved and we look forward to returning very soon.

Glad to hear it.

Following on from lots of the posts above, the "tourists who want an out and back train ride and never break their journey" model doesn't fit everywhere, and certainly not at the KWVR. It did for a bit last year and earlier this when people were generally more cautious and not visiting as many shops or attractions, but for some time now it hasn't been right.

The KWVR is nearly the closest you'll get to public transport on a heritage railway. The vast majority of visitors break their journey, normally at Haworth. There is no one very busy station which is the obvious start point. Keighley is normally the busiest and pretty much everyone wants to break their journey at Haworth- they are using the train to get to Haworth, something they can't do on prebooked out and back tickets. The railway also carries lots of walkers and people doing single journeys as well as local people having a quick trip (and perhaps a pint!). The compartment round trip model was starting to loose revenue as once Haworth village opened up and people were visiting more, there was huge demand for "a train to Haworth" and "can we come back later on".

To that end it was decided to follow Transport Operator guidance since late May and as such normal tickets with all stations open and normal walk up options, along with the relevant Members, Local Railcard etc discounts were then available. There was a period when the compartments on the train were reservable and the open coaches were for walk up passengers but it was found that the compartments simply weren't selling so that was dispensed with in late June.

 

[WestRiding]

Glad to hear it.

Following on from lots of the posts above, the "tourists who want an out and back train ride and never break their journey" model doesn't fit everywhere, and certainly not at the KWVR. It did for a bit last year and earlier this when people were generally more cautious and not visiting as many shops or attractions, but for some time now it hasn't been right.

The KWVR is nearly the closest you'll get to public transport on a heritage railway. The vast majority of visitors break their journey, normally at Haworth. There is no one very busy station which is the obvious start point. Keighley is normally the busiest and pretty much everyone wants to break their journey at Haworth- they are using the train to get to Haworth, something they can't do on prebooked out and back tickets. The railway also carries lots of walkers and people doing single journeys as well as local people having a quick trip (and perhaps a pint!). The compartment round trip model was starting to loose revenue as once Haworth village opened up and people were visiting more, there was huge demand for "a train to Haworth" and "can we come back later on".

To that end it was decided to follow Transport Operator guidance since late May and as such normal tickets with all stations open and normal walk up options, along with the relevant Members, Local Railcard etc discounts were then available. There was a period when the compartments on the train were reservable and the open coaches were for walk up passengers but it was found that the compartments simply weren't selling so that was dispensed with in late June.

Seems the KWVR are deserving of the trade with their sensible approach. Very glad to hear it. I think I'll pay them a visit as a result of hearing this. Not been to Haworth since I was a kid.

 

[SeanG]

I like the approach by the KWVR - it seems a sensible option if possible to have a compartmented coach for those who are cautious or those, like myself, still awaiting their second dose (after which I will be a lot more confident of returning to 'normal'). But then an open coach for those who have had two doses / don't care if they become ill or transmit

 

[wagwan my g]

Nene Valley railway is also going back to pre-covid operating for this weekend, the flexible "hop on hop off" Rover tickets are returning with walk-on tickets available from all 5 stations ( although you can buy tickets online if you wish) . No more allocated seats and the train will consist of a mix of open and compartment mark 1s. Masks are encouraged in busier areas but will not be forced, in line with government guidance. Certain aspects such as cleaning trains between trips and hand sanitiser points will remain.

To celebrate this for this weekend only for every 1 adult rover ( £18) up to 3 children can travel for a £1 so great for families/grandchildren etc.
Yellow timetable in operation consisting of 3 round trips of the line.
Class 45 diesel (45041) on Saturday (24 July), and then Polish tank engine 5485 will operate services on Sunday (25 July).
More info on their website.

 

[John Webb]

The preserved St Albans South Signal Box opened to the public, fairly quietly, yesterday. (Sun 25th July). We had 37 visitors.

Opening dates for the rest of the year are on Sundays, 2-5pm:
August 8th and 22nd, September 26th, October 10th and 24th, November 14th and December 12th.

There will be, hopefully, EXTENDED OPENING Sat/Sun September 11th/12, 10am to 5pm for HERITAGE OPEN DAYS.
In addition to our usual displays there will be some special features.

Full details at our website www.sigbox.co.uk - all open days subject to any Government directive, of course!

There is no booking required but we have placed a limitation on numbers at any one time in the ground floor museum room as this has no natural ventilation, other than gaps in the lapboarding.

 

[steamybrian]

I am planning to visit the Mid Hants (Watercress Line) but not until the "normal service" returns.
I do not want to pre-book but will plan my visit according to the weather.
I will be travelling from Waterloo to Alton and want to do Alton- Alresford spend several hours there and return around 1500 hrs.
The "covid" timetable gives little choice from Alton with many of the MHR trains are shown to stand at Ropley for between 45 and 60 minutes which I wish to avoid.
Can MHR member state when "normal" is going to return?

 

[WestRiding]

I am planning to visit the Mid Hants (Watercress Line) but not until the "normal service" returns.
I do not want to pre-book but will plan my visit according to the weather.
I will be travelling from Waterloo to Alton and want to do Alton- Alresford spend several hours there and return around 1500 hrs.
The "covid" timetable gives little choice from Alton with many of the MHR trains are shown to stand at Ropley for between 45 and 60 minutes which I wish to avoid.
Can MHR member state when "normal" is going to return?

Sick of it mate. Its like certain railways want to carry on the rediculous rules for no other reason than, it suits them. My main bugbear is the Ravenglass Railway, I absolutely love it, but will absolutely not pay my money for pre-booking and in-flexibility, especially with lake district weather. There is no need to carry on this performance of pre 19th July, but it seems some are adamant of carrying on their own version of the rules for no other reason than they hate Boris. Must go against Boris to score brownie points. Not stopping at Intermediate Stations, how bloody rediculous, its a railway. Rant over, I cannot be the only one who feels this way. Next thing, we'll be getting told how difficult its been for preserved railways. I must add, top marks for the KWVR. Visited and it was brilliant, no nonsense, enjoyable, and no pre booking. Seriously, Thank You anyone who has anything to do with the KWVR.

 

[24Grange]

I agree we need to make the best of a bad job at the moment, but I don’t think we should be talking as though this should become the new normal.

I can get £90 for a round trip on the NYMR (presumably that would have been a day rover rather than simple return?), however the railway we were planning on visiting is quite a bit shorter. £110 for a few miles travelling is excessive, and to add to it they seem to want masks worn the whole time while on site.

Its not just the price of the actual ticket - its the price of getting to the site ( and return) as well, ( and food and drink whilst you are there) -its not a cheap day out by any means. To bring the "ordinary families" ( not enthusiasts) back - do heritage railways need to consider Special offers and promotions?

 

[paul1609]

Its not just the price of the actual ticket - its the price of getting to the site ( and return) as well, ( and food and drink whilst you are there) -its not a cheap day out by any means. To bring the "ordinary families" ( not enthusiasts) back - do heritage railways need to consider Special offers and promotions?

From a Kent & East Sussex Railway point of view our 10.40 departure from Tenterden this week has been approaching full and we've been encouraging pre- bookers to travel on later departures through social media. We've also suddenly had a last minute surge of enquiries from independent coach operators. We always offer a discount for advance bookings but it's not really a climate where we'd be making special offers or discounts to be honest.

 

[steamybrian]

Its not just the price of the actual ticket - its the price of getting to the site ( and return) as well, ( and food and drink whilst you are there) -its not a cheap day out by any means. To bring the "ordinary families" ( not enthusiasts) back - do heritage railways need to consider Special offers and promotions?

The Spa Valley Railway have REDUCED fares this year on ordinary service days for the whole line return . Last year it was £12 adult return (£11 for seniors) for the whole line return and this year it is £10 adult return (£9 seniors). Any other examples of heritage railways reducing their fares this year...?.

 

[E759]

From a Kent & East Sussex Railway point of view our 10.40 departure from Tenterden this week has been approaching full and we've been encouraging pre- bookers to travel on later departures through social media. We've also suddenly had a last minute surge of enquiries from independent coach operators. We always offer a discount for advance bookings but it's not really a climate where we'd be making special offers or discounts to be honest.

Visited yesterday (29 July 2021) on a Rover ticket (unlimited travel) and had a superb day including a whistle-stop visit to Bodiam Castle. The Diesel Observation Train seemed very well received by everyone on board including myself. Many thanks to staff and volunteers for making it a very enjoyable day out in glorious sunshine.

 

[James H]

From a Kent & East Sussex Railway point of view our 10.40 departure from Tenterden this week has been approaching full and we've been encouraging pre- bookers to travel on later departures through social media. We've also suddenly had a last minute surge of enquiries from independent coach operators. We always offer a discount for advance bookings but it's not really a climate where we'd be making special offers or discounts to be honest.

It WAS full on Tuesday - we had to wait for the 11.45 (as did a number of other passengers)

It was nice to be back at the K&ESR after many years.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Sick of it mate. Its like certain railways want to carry on the rediculous rules for no other reason than, it suits them. My main bugbear is the Ravenglass Railway, I absolutely love it, but will absolutely not pay my money for pre-booking and in-flexibility, especially with lake district weather. There is no need to carry on this performance of pre 19th July, but it seems some are adamant of carrying on their own version of the rules for no other reason than they hate Boris. Must go against Boris to score brownie points. Not stopping at Intermediate Stations, how bloody rediculous, its a railway. Rant over, I cannot be the only one who feels this way. Next thing, we'll be getting told how difficult its been for preserved railways. I must add, top marks for the KWVR. Visited and it was brilliant, no nonsense, enjoyable, and no pre booking. Seriously, Thank You anyone who has anything to do with the KWVR.

I too was a long time regular visitor to the Ravenglass & Eskdale Railway pre-covid, but haven’t wanted to do so since as I nearly always used the intermediate stations and want be flexible on what services I use on the day. The current prebook online, inflexible, out and back fairground ride with inflated prices doesn’t appeal to me at all. The suspension of through fares from Northern is a downside too. I suspect that the problem for the R&ER is that they have already sold reserved journeys on trains up to the end of September and so are stuck with the current system until then. Hopefully they can return to normality after that and go back to providing a more usable public transport service like they used to do.

 

[WestRiding]

I too was a long time regular visitor to the Ravenglass & Eskdale Railway pre-covid, but haven’t wanted to do so since as I nearly always used the intermediate stations and want be flexible on what services I use on the day. The current prebook online, inflexible, out and back fairground ride with inflated prices doesn’t appeal to me at all. The suspension of through fares from Northern is a downside too. I suspect that the problem for the R&ER is that they have already sold reserved journeys on trains up to the end of September and so are stuck with the current system until then. Hopefully they can return to normality after that and go back to providing a more usable public transport service like they used to do.

I notice the other only real comparison, the RH&DR have now resumed normal service. I shall pay them a visit next week.

 

[paul1609]

It WAS full on Tuesday - we had to wait for the 11.45 (as did a number of other passengers)

It was nice to be back at the K&ESR after many years.

Hi there, I hope it didn't spoil your visit.
The demand for our first train last Tuesday was exceptional but we have adjusted our online booking quotas to try and avoid a reoccurrence. We've also been trying to encourage travel on the later trains for advance online bookings and started a social media campaign to that effect as well. Generally our target is for trains to be loaded to 80% of capacity.
We cant increase the length of the trains because of the length of the run round loop at Bodiam, this is the maximum that could be achieved within our footprint at this site. Prior to preservation there was no run round loop and the platform was only 2 coaches long.

 

[Taunton]

There are many businesses (not least main line TOCs) whose marketing side seems to have taken to pre-booking "only", because they know that a lot of people who might be minded to come decide on the day to do something else, whereas get their paid booking in advance and you are stuck with it. This explains how places like The Shard with a high view offer cheap tickets if booked in advance - because when it's obviously raining or low cloud nobody buys on the day. Wholly a marketing team thing.

Likewise the "round trip only" is just a thing of convenience to the operator. Notably the KWVR, who unusually have their principal point at an intermediate stop, at Haworth, managed to readily think otherwise.

 

[bramling]

There are many businesses (not least main line TOCs) whose marketing side seems to have taken to pre-booking "only", because they know that a lot of people who might be minded to come decide on the day to do something else, whereas get their paid booking in advance and you are stuck with it. This explains how places like The Shard with a high view offer cheap tickets if booked in advance - because when it's obviously raining or low cloud nobody buys on the day. Wholly a marketing team thing.

That's an interesting one, as if one reads Tripadviser reviews for something like the Snowdon Mountain Railway (which has always been pretty skewed towards pre-booking) one of the biggest moans is about the view being spoiled by the weather.

To be fair to Snowdon their setup is genuinely quite unique, as they are very weather dominated, very popular, and by definition have severely limited capacity. It isn't really something other railways should be attempting to emulate though.

As an aside, anyone expecting a refund in cloudy conditions on SMR is in my view being rather unreasonable. We "did" Snowdon twice, once on foot so we had the control to coincide with good weather, and once by train to tick off the railway. As it happens we were fortunate to get good clear weather for the train ride as well, but I wouldn't have moaned if we hadn't.

 

[Djgr]

Went on East Lancs on Saturday. Essentially back to normal with light touch common sense precautions

 

[Planesandtrain]

The Epping Ongar Railway is running almost as normal with day tickets on sale again, apart from the few family events that were planned before the 19th. Heritage bus services from Epping to Shenfield are also running again (as a registered service).

 

[Bikeman78]

There are many businesses (not least main line TOCs) whose marketing side seems to have taken to pre-booking "only", because they know that a lot of people who might be minded to come decide on the day to do something else, whereas get their paid booking in advance and you are stuck with it. This explains how places like The Shard with a high view offer cheap tickets if booked in advance - because when it's obviously raining or low cloud nobody buys on the day. Wholly a marketing team thing.

I would never pay in advance to go up a tall building. I've been up the Empire State building a few times and also One World Trade Center. Every time I have shown up on the day. If you turn up early there is no queue.

That's an interesting one, as if one reads Tripadviser reviews for something like the Snowdon Mountain Railway (which has always been pretty skewed towards pre-booking) one of the biggest moans is about the view being spoiled by the weather.

I've been up Snowdon four times. The first time was in 1997 when I walked up; the weather was great. I've subsequently done the train three times and the weather was grim every time. I only go for the experience of hearing a steam loco working hard for an hour. I have no interest in the diesels although if they sounded like a class 37 I would be more interested! It used to be pot lock which trains were steam although the 10:30 from Llanberis was always a good bet. More recently they have advertised specific steam trips which cost a bit more.

 

[Taunton]

I've been up Snowdon four times.

I've only managed it by walking. I've been staying near Llanberis and have gone to the station a couple of separate times in the morning, only to find they are sold out, communicated in a rather smug "it's your fault, for not booking" manner. Judging by the number of others similarly being turned away they could have sold double the number. This of course was how they operated in the days before the Internet, when many services were run doubled up.

Today they seem to be sold out for the next two weeks ahead. They also nowadays seem to use only a fraction of their available rolling stock. Bit of a shame really.

 

[Falcon1200]

That's an interesting one, as if one reads Tripadviser reviews for something like the Snowdon Mountain Railway (which has always been pretty skewed towards pre-booking) one of the biggest moans is about the view being spoiled by the weather.

The weather, totally beyond the railway's control of course, does have a major impact on enjoyment of the SMR. On my first trip, as a kid with the family in 1973, trains were only running as far as Clogwyn due to it. I finally got round to completing the line, this time with my own kids and on a glorious sunny day, in 2006.

 

[Bikeman78]

I've only managed it by walking. I've been staying near Llanberis and have gone to the station a couple of separate times in the morning, only to find they are sold out, communicated in a rather smug "it's your fault, for not booking" manner. Judging by the number of others similarly being turned away they could have sold double the number. This of course was how they operated in the days before the Internet, when many services were run doubled up.

Today they seem to be sold out for the next two weeks ahead. They also nowadays seem to use only a fraction of their available rolling stock. Bit of a shame really.

Yes I remember in the 1990s there were often duplicates. I think they have some new carriages which only work with the diesels now. A round trip with a diesel takes 2.5 hours and they only have four diesels. I suppose they could use steam to run some duplicates, assuming they have some older carriages spare. Those who paid extra for the guaranteed steam will still get what they paid for and they won't know that the people on a steam hauled (or rather shoved) duplicate paid less.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes I remember in the 1990s there were often duplicates. I think they have some new carriages which only work with the diesels now. A round trip with a diesel takes 2.5 hours and they only have four diesels. I suppose they could use steam to run some duplicates, assuming they have some older carriages spare. Those who paid extra for the guaranteed steam will still get what they paid for and they won't know that the people on a steam hauled (or rather shoved) duplicate paid less.

I suspect staffing is their issue just like the mainline, so they will need to plan a fairly minimal service so as to be sure of delivering it.

 

[Bikeman78]

I suspect staffing is their issue just like the mainline, so they will need to plan a fairly minimal service so as to be sure of delivering it.

To be honest it was the same pre Covid in the 2010s. Although the weather was poor when I used it so they were unlikely to send out duplicates. I wonder how duplicates are/were planned? Do they have crew on standby on sunny days when all the timetabled trains are fully booked?

Edit: I see that trains are only going to Clogwyn this year. I'm amazed that it's so popular. You have to come back down on the same train so no chance of walking to the summit.

 

[bramling]

To be honest it was the same pre Covid in the 2010s. Although the weather was poor when I used it so they were unlikely to send out duplicates. I wonder how duplicates are/were planned? Do they have crew on standby on sunny days when all the timetabled trains are fully booked?

Edit: I see that trains are only going to Clogwyn this year. I'm amazed that it's so popular. You have to come back down on the same train so no chance of walking to the summit.

It’s a bit of a bandwagon thing to be honest.

Being brutally honest, it isn’t really a wonderful experience. As previously stated it’s heavily weather dependent - especially for those who aren’t rail enthusiasts which I’d imagine is the vast majority (more so than most heritage railways). Secondly it’s a case of “pack em in”, especially in the diesels, which really are cramped. I’d always recommend paying the extra for the steam.

When one does get to the summit it’s guaranteed to be packed, and of course one is tied to being on the same train down.

To be fair they do face logistic issues with arranging things any other way, but for a “Snowdon experience” personally I’d give it a miss, climbing on foot is the way to go. The Llanberis Path is hardly strenuous, though even in summer one does need to be properly prepared and kitted out.

The absolute best time to enjoy the summit is on a long summer evening when the trains have stopped, and the summit is fairly quiet and isolated. On a still day it is possible to enjoy perfect silence where one can literally hear a pin drop.

Not knocking the railway as it’s a wonderful thing, just not the best way to “do” Snowdon (IMO).

 

[ArchieWoodbine]

I notice that the North Norfolk Railway are clinging on to some of the previous restrictions. Only those with tickets for travel will be permitted access to station platforms and facilities (whereas previously they were open to the public); compartments appear to be reserved for those who wish to pre-book and segregate from other passengers; whilst masks aren't mandatory, all of the publications imply they will be strongly advised on the day: (What’s changing at the North Norfolk Railway from July 19th 2021? – North Norfolk Railway (nnrailway.co.uk))

I hope they relax a bit more in the future; it's strange to see an organisation that's presumably desperate for revenue cling onto restrictions that make their operations more onerous and less appealing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I notice that the North Norfolk Railway are clinging on to some of the previous restrictions. Only those with tickets for travel will be permitted access to station platforms and facilities (whereas previously they were open to the public); compartments appear to be reserved for those who wish to pre-book and segregate from other passengers; whilst masks aren't mandatory, all of the publications imply they will be strongly advised on the day: (What’s changing at the North Norfolk Railway from July 19th 2021? – North Norfolk Railway (nnrailway.co.uk))

I hope they relax a bit more in the future; it's strange to see an organisation that's presumably desperate for revenue cling onto restrictions that make their operations more onerous and less appealing.

It's a bit of a balance. The commercial decision for them (and that's all it is as they are not public transport operations, but rather tourist attractions run as private businesses or charities) is whether more people will prefer the restrictions so they feel safer or will prefer them not to be there.

Based on observation of mask wearing around here, I suspect you're probably over 50% of people who would want the restrictions, but I suspect this will drop over time (certainly if cases continue to do the same), and policies will change accordingly.

It’s a bit of a bandwagon thing to be honest.

Being brutally honest, it isn’t really a wonderful experience. As previously stated it’s heavily weather dependent - especially for those who aren’t rail enthusiasts which I’d imagine is the vast majority (more so than most heritage railways). Secondly it’s a case of “pack em in”, especially in the diesels, which really are cramped. I’d always recommend paying the extra for the steam.

When one does get to the summit it’s guaranteed to be packed, and of course one is tied to being on the same train down.

You can to be fair go up on the train and walk down though I don't think you save any money by doing so - there isn't an exit restriction at the top. This might be a good option for those who aren't fit enough to walk up, as while the Llanberis path is well-defined and easy it is still a mountain*! They also did used to sell standby tickets to walk up and get the train down, so they could get extra revenue from people taking the former option.

I've not been on the train, I've walked up countless times. I will have to tick the box at some point.

* As you rightly say you do still need to be equipped for bad weather. As someone who both runs and hillwalks I won't get into the boots vs. trainers debate which can get rather vitriolic - either would be fine for the Llanberis path in summer provided you don't mind wet feet if it tips down - but you definitely do need decent waterproofs etc, and if you walk up in winter you may need ice axe and crampons.

 

[Meerkat]

It's a bit of a balance. The commercial decision for them (and that's all it is as they are not public transport operations, but rather tourist attractions run as private businesses or charities) is whether more people will prefer the restrictions so they feel safer or will prefer them not to be there.

Based on observation of mask wearing around here, I suspect you're probably over 50% of people who would want the restrictions, but I suspect this will drop over time (certainly if cases continue to do the same), and policies will change accordingly.



You can to be fair go up on the train and walk down though I don't think you save any money by doing so - there isn't an exit restriction at the top. This might be a good option for those who aren't fit enough to walk up, as while the Llanberis path is well-defined and easy it is still a mountain*! They also did used to sell standby tickets to walk up and get the train down, so they could get extra revenue from people taking the former option.

I've not been on the train, I've walked up countless times. I will have to tick the box at some point.

* As you rightly say you do still need to be equipped for bad weather. As someone who both runs and hillwalks I won't get into the boots vs. trainers debate which can get rather vitriolic - either would be fine for the Llanberis path in summer provided you don't mind wet feet if it tips down - but you definitely do need decent waterproofs etc, and if you walk up in winter you may need ice axe and crampons.

I walked up intending to get the train down, only to find almost zero visibility and gale force winds* meant they had shut up shop and gone down so I didn’t even get a cup of tea.
*windy enough that I didn’t actually make the cairn right at the very top - it didn’t feel safe even on all fours!

 

[30907]

Likewise the "round trip only" is just a thing of convenience to the operator. Notably the KWVR, who unusually have their principal point at an intermediate stop, at Haworth, managed to readily think otherwise.

That was because it was impossible to find (and prove to the authorities) a Covid-secure way of managing passenger safety, toilets etc at Haworth. Not to mention that Haworth was scarcely open for tourists at that stage.