Entire 800/801/802 fleet stood down for safety checks

[Western Sunset]

Do the SE Javelins have the same problem?

 

[F Great Eastern]

I'm disappointed that modern technology could not have modelled stresses better to make this sort of unexpected failure a thing of the past. This seems akin to the 1950s DH Comet fatigues when all they had was a tank of water!

Don't use the failings of one product to bash all modern technology from all manufacturers.

 

[Robertj21a]

It will be rather less than 0.1% of the population that are affected.

I was trying to soften the blow of reality!

 

[TheEdge]

But, is it really the case in these situations that things change so quickly that at 6.20 they wouldn’t have known that they’d be running a train 40 mins later?

Yes, because at something like 06.50 control may have suddenly got a call saying 80xxxx was good for service and they then will have thrown it on the next available service.

 

[A0wen]

Strategic reserve of HST's anyone? ( to be stored next to all the old steam engines and brought out in when national emergency.
Thinking about it, back in the day the loading gauge across BR was pretty much the same ( with some exceptions0 and trans could go anywhere. Now virtually every line has its own exceptions and loading gauge, so ( even if had the spare stock) can't swop around

BIB - no it wasn't. A legacy of having many companies originally building the railway network.

 

[43096]

but are there enough HST's still in working order for there diesel routes and for GWR?

Pretty obviously, no.

 

[73128]

It is fairly quick to do a visual inspection, is it broken and hanging off, or visibly cracked.

Rather slower if you intend to ultrasonic weld scans to pick up a minute hairline flaw

GWR are running a limited service. At least their website was clear that there would be minimal trains on a all their InterCity routes today and travel should be avoided, unlike LNER (and HT) who just say that certain trains are cancelled and that you need to rebook on the next one...

 

[gimmea50anyday]

This raises another question. With LNER not running, are they expecting XC or TPE to help out and carry their passengers? Would they do the same if the roles were reversed, given the compulsory reservations?

given the problem is affecting both LNER and TPE as well as GWR and HT, this is an industry wide problem.

LNER and TPE are reunnong buses between newcastle and York, some TPE services are in the hands of 185s and mutual ticket acceptance is in place. XC have stated only flexible tickets are being accepted as capacity is limited. There is only so much that can be done until each unit is examined and accepted back in to traffic. I cant see this returning to normal until Monday given the size of the fleets involved

 

[73128]

The only station I can think of that can't be reached from London by rail alternative routes (generally the North & Midlands via Midland Mainline and changing or via Birmingham, Wales via Birmingham and changing once or twice, West County via Birmingham & Cross Country, or on local trains) is Pewsey.

which is (booked) buses from Swindon anyway.

 

[TheEdge]

Do the SE Javelins have the same problem?

Seemingly not. It would be interesting to know if any of the other A-Train family have had this issue, specifically the Japanese members.

 

[F Great Eastern]

GWR are running a limited service. At least their website was clear that there would be minimal trains on a all their InterCity routes today and travel should be avoided, unlike LNER (and HT) who just say that certain trains are cancelled and that you need to rebook on the next one...

That's because GWR are run by a proper railwayman in Mark Hopwood who cares about such things and no doubt he has created a team of staff who do the same.

LNER meanwhile see protecting their image and the DfT as being most important.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Is this design in use in other countries ? If so have they reported similar problems ?

what about southeasterns Javelins? they share much of the design as the IET

 

[Dai Corner]

Plenty at Newport at the mo…..

Apparently they are in little pieces ready to be taken away within hours of arrival at SIMS.

 

[DanNCL]

Can anyone confirm how Polmadie and Heaton have both got some 800/801s out in service today despite not being Hitachi depots? I was of the understanding that Hitachi had to be the ones to inspect these, yet as they don't have staff at Heaton and Polmadie they can't have inspected these units? Or am I misunderstanding?

 

[F Great Eastern]

what about southeasterns Javelins? they share much of the design as the IET

They were built in Japan, the 800s were built in the UK with some pre-production work in Japan.

 

[RobShipway]

I'm disappointed that modern technology could not have modelled stresses better to make this sort of unexpected failure a thing of the past. This seems akin to the 1950s DH Comet fatigues when all they had was a tank of water!

It is very difficult to produce certainly computer software, that allow for certain types of stresses when items are in use. With a trains, it would face different stresses on say travelling between London to Bristol, than it would going along the Dawlish coast route.

 

[gka472l]

I was booked on the 06.30 KGX-LDS this morning. Advised at Kings Cross they didn’t expect trains to run for the rest of the day so hopped over to St Pancras for the 06.33 STP-York up to Sheffield.

Would say a lot of the people on that train had come over from Kings Cross & then changed at Sheffield onto cross country.

Slightly frustrating to then check RTT and see the 07.03 KGX-LDS ran, albeit a little late!! I mean, I’m sure at that time info was patchy & better to get people moving than waiting around at Kings Cross. Ive only end up being an hour later so no big deal (and delay repay!)

But, is it really the case in these situations that things change so quickly that at 6.20 they wouldn’t have known that they’d be running a train 40 mins later?

Yes, as someone who works for a TOC not involved in today's issues, I can tell you that in disruption, we've sent people via different routes only for the issue to be resolved not long after they've departed.....so things can, and do, change very quickly.

 

[AdamWW]

GWR are running a limited service. At least their website was clear that there would be minimal trains on a all their InterCity routes today and travel should be avoided, unlike LNER (and HT) who just say that certain trains are cancelled and that you need to rebook on the next one...

Or possibly no trains - at the moment they aren't committing to even a very limited service (at least according to the link on their front page).

 

[RobShipway]

Can anyone confirm how Polmadie and Heaton have both got some 800/801s out in service today despite not being Hitachi depots? I was of the understanding that Hitachi had to be the ones to inspect these, yet as they don't have staff at Heaton and Polmadie they can't have inspected these units? Or am I misunderstanding?

Is there not Hitachi trained engineers based at Polmadie and Heaton?

 

[Bald Rick]

That's because GWR are run by a proper railwayman in Mark Hopwood who cares about such things and no doubt he has created a team of staff who do the same.

David Horne has been on the railway almost as long as Mark...

 

[DanNCL]

Is there not Hitachi trained engineers based at Polmadie and Heaton?

I don't think so, although I could be mistaken.

 

[AdamWW]

Yes, as someone who works for a TOC not involved in today's issues, I can tell you that in disruption, we've sent people via different routes only for the issue to be resolved not long after they've departed.....so things can, and do, change very quickly.

This is going back a while now, but I used to find GWR very good at promptly diverting trains round the Severn Tunnel if it was blocked, contrary to my usual experience in disruption of spending a lot of time going nowhere while presumably people worked out what to do.

At least once, whatever the problem was resolved itself more quickly than expected, and the train behind us ended up in Cardiff before we did.

 

[bengley]

I don't think so, although I could be mistaken.

I'm guessing you mean Craigentinny.

 

[skyhigh]

If this ends up being a long term problem what is there available to cover them?
I assume LNER can pull most of the 91's back but are there enough HST's still in working order for there diesel routes and for GWR?

Given how many Mk4s have gone for scrap I seriously doubt there's any more sets available than were stored by LNER at Neville Hill until needed (and they'll need exams before coming back out).

 

[D6130]

Following the Sandy derailment in 1998, class 317s and 321/9s ran from King's Cross to Leeds. I wonder who crewed them?

King's Cross crews on the 317s and Leeds and Doncaster crews on the 321/9s.

 

[DanNCL]

I'm guessing you mean Craigentinny.

No, Polmadie. The daily service from Glasgow has operated this morning, albeit with a delay. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y11321/2021-05-08/detailed

 

[bengley]

No, Polmadie. The daily service from Glasgow has operated this morning, albeit with a delay. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y11321/2021-05-08/detailed

I see, cheers! I assumed this would be an ECS move from Edinburgh.

I would imagine a Hitachi engineer or two would have been sent across from Craigentinny in a van to go and have a look at it.

 

[HST274]

So far all but four trains on the pad-hereford line have been cancelled and one started short at Oxford so they could get a 165 on the diagram and the other two ended/started short at Foregate street instead of Malvern. I have doubts whether they will be able to get many (if any) more trains on the Cotswolds line for a bit.
-Robert

 

[contrex]

Regarding "British engineering", weren't the LT D78s hastily modified when, as Roger Ford put it, their bogies decided to 'emulate the Lady of Shallott's mirror'?

 

[AdamWW]

It's possible that inspections showed that the problem was worse/more widespread than had been thought.

On the other hand it's amazing how often timing is "coincidental".... Like a fishing dispute, complete with flag waving, blowing up on Wed/Thu....

I suspect the fraction of voters who would be aware that the DfT procured (most of) these trains is quite small.