Epileptic Seizures on Trains - Are they common?

[bAzTNM]

Hi! Was on the 9:18am train from Bellgrove to Balloch in Scotland today and the train had to stop at Queen Street Low Level due to somebody taking ill after taking a fit. I must say, the behaviour of the guard was great. He literally went to everybody on that train and said what was happening and what was going to happen. He must have said the same thing 200 times. Good job. I wasn't going anywhere special, so I could wait.

Onto my question, this isn't the first time this has happened to me. Just wondering if fits are very common on the railway system? What brings them on? Is it the fast bright lights battering off the windows?

Thanks for reading!

 

[Domh245]

Most epileptic fits have no apparent cause, they just happen randomly. As such they are no more common than epileptic fits on taxis or in homes, or at least once you've factored out the amount of people -ie, measuring in fits/day rather than fits/person

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I couldn't tell you how many trains I have been on in my life, it's probably five or six thousand at this point (I'm a driver by the way) and I have never known anybody to have an epileptic fit on a train I've been on. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, just that I've never known it.

So if you use me as a sample then you would conclude they are very rare, but we live in a country where more than 4,000,000 rail journeys are made every day (that is journeys made, not people travelling by the way) so just by the sheer volume of people travelling the law of averages says that an epileptic fit is going to be something that probably happens almost every day somewhere on the network, it's just that an individual is highly unlikely to ever see it.

 

[edwin_m]

Agreed. I was a commuter for 17 years and am still a reasonably frequent traveller and I only recall one instance that was definitely an epileptic fit. Of couse this will be the reason for some of the incidents described as "delayed due to a passenger being taken ill" - but even these don't seem too common compared with things like signal failure (or no explanation at all).

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I've never been to someone having a fit on a train, or indeed any form of public transport. In fact, I've only ever been to drunks on platforms so far. Also, remember that epilepsy is only one of many causes of seizures.

 

[Clip]

Onto my question, this isn't the first time this has happened to me. Just wondering if fits are very common on the railway system? What brings them on? Is it the fast bright lights battering off the windows?

Thanks for reading!

I can say that I have dealt with more Cardiac arrest incidents on the railway than I have Epileptic fits - a lot more.

 

[tsr]

Onto my question, this isn't the first time this has happened to me. Just wondering if fits are very common on the railway system? What brings them on? Is it the fast bright lights battering off the windows?

Most epileptic fits have no apparent cause, they just happen randomly. As such they are no more common than epileptic fits on taxis or in homes, or at least once you've factored out the amount of people -ie, measuring in fits/day rather than fits/person

Quite. And of course some epileptic people/those prone to fits do not have fits as a result of strobing lights or other "more common" causes, but may suffer as a result of something like their diet or one of a myriad of other circumstances. The phrase "could be anything" is almost justified when you start to speculate about the cause! Of course, there could be truth in flickering bright lights through train windows causing seizures in some people.

I have known (and still know) several epilepsy sufferers with varying symptoms, so fortunately am aware of how best to react, but that doesn't mean it's an easy situation to deal with. It sounds like the guard in question was well aware of what was happening and was doing well in trying to keep everyone calm - and control the incident as much as possible without harm to the casualty or others (which funnily enough can actually be a good coping strategy to prevent yourself overreacting, as much as anything!). An ill human body can do weird and wonderful things to itself and it can be tough to accept that there are times where you have to clear a space and wait until the fit/seizure is over before full assessment can be made.

I have never personally found myself in a situation where I have definitely known someone to be having a fit on a train which I was on (or delayed behind, etc.).

 

[Darren R]

Curiously though I have noticed that the phrase "delays due to a person taken ill on a train" seems to be more common on the Tube system than the national network - although of course this covers a myriad of things and not just someone having a form of fit or seizure.

I've also seen some less-than-sympathetic reactions from people delayed in such circumstances.

 

[Llanigraham]

Please people, as the father of an epileptic, they are not "fits" but episodes or seizures.
That derogatory term was dropped years ago!!

 

[Darren R]

Please people, as the father of an epileptic, they are not "fits" but episodes or seizures.
That derogatory term was dropped years ago!!

I did wonder about that, I must admit, when posting. But surely "fit" is just a generic, non-medical term and doesn't necessarily imply any specific medical condition. (That's certainly what I meant by the use of the word anyway, and it certainly wasn't used in a derogatory way.)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

My wife is epileptic and she uses the term "fits".

She has never had one on a train although she did once have one in a car ( this was before we were married ).

 

[thenorthern]

From experience of people with epilepsy I know they either travel by taxi or travel by car with someone else driving. Most people I know with epilepsy usually travel with someone else who is trained just in case they do have a fit it can be dealt with quickly.

 

[michael769]

Epilepsy is not the only cause of fits.

There are several drugs (legal and illegal) that can trigger fits, and a few other medical conditions that can trigger a fit. A stroke can often cause fit like symptoms, for example. So it is entirely possible for a seemingly health person to fit out of the blue.

 

[VP185]

I've been a driver for 10 years. 2 people on the train have had seizures and 1 on the platform.

1 person on the train had a seizure and the ambulance was called as they were travelling alone and no one knew his medical history.
The second person was travelling with a friend who confirmed she suffered from epilepsy and everything was OK so we were able to continue without much of a delay.

We were trained by FGW that a ambulance only needs to be called if
You know it's their first seizure
The seizure lasts for more than 5 minutes
If they injure themselves, or
If they have multiple seizures without regaining consciousness

Admittedly it is very frightening to witness though!

 

[AlexS]

Curiously though I have noticed that the phrase "delays due to a person taken ill on a train" seems to be more common on the Tube system than the national network - although of course this covers a myriad of things and not just someone having a form of fit or seizure.

I've also seen some less-than-sympathetic reactions from people delayed in such circumstances.

It tends to be down to the intensity of service and lack of passing points on the tube. Less than sympathetic people tend to get less than sympathetic responses from other people anyway!

 

[bAzTNM]

I didn't like the attitude of some of the other passengers on the service though. Some posh couple were worried how they were going to pick up somebody from Balloch, when the wee guy was being worked on in the next carriage.

Wasn't just a couple of people working on him too. Must have been 10 -15.

Sorry about using the word "fit".

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Please people, as the father of an epileptic, they are not "fits" but episodes or seizures.
That derogatory term was dropped years ago!!

While we're at it, I am surprised at the insensitivity of referring to a person - of whatever age - who is unfortunate enough to suffer from one of the forms of this debilitating condition, as "an epileptic", although I appreciate the irony in this context.

 

[Murph]

I didn't like the attitude of some of the other passengers on the service though. Some posh couple were worried how they were going to pick up somebody from Balloch, when the wee guy was being worked on in the next carriage.

While I agree that there are some people who display a dreadful and inhumane attitude in such situations, it's also important to not judge any discontented people too quickly. Some of them might be worrying about picking up a young/elderly/vulnerable person, for example.

I'm not suggesting just dumping the casualty on the platform to allow the train to continue, just that it's worth remembering that some of the people complaining may be quite reasonably worried about something.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

If you see anyone having a fit wherever then try to move everything that could hurt them (including bystanders!) from around them, and if you can, without getting yourself hurt, put something soft underneath their heads. Don't put anything in their mouths.

If it's their first fit, or they don't know a reason for it, or they have injured themselves/been incontinent, the seizure lasts for longer than 5 minutes, there are repeated seizures or are post ictal for longer than usual
then call 999.

 

[TEW]

My uncle suffers from epilepsy and whilst I can't remember him having a seizure on a train I have been with him having seizures in many public places, including most scarily of all in the sea. To a bystander it must be very scary and it must be hard to know what to do.

 

[leedstraindude]

We cant do that anyway. A couple of years ago, my service blocked the ECML at Alnmouth going north while an ambulance crew attended to a young girl who had an episode.

She had come round by time we got there and refused to let the ambulance crew take her to be checked out. Amulance crew had to do a form with her stating she'd refused treatment so they were covered legally before they would let us resume our trip. Cost us about 30 minutes in the end in delay minutes, which when the crew working it only had a 40 minute turnaround at Edinburgh did not go down well.

 

[Mojo]

Never come across one myself, but I will always attempt to remove a person from a train if they are ill, provided there is adequate support to move them (usually from other customers) and there is somewhere safe to put them. This is the advice from the company and the local ambulance service.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Patients should always be removed from trains where possible. Partly because it ends up delaying a lot of people (with LUL, in hot tunnels with no air movement and a large amount of people in a small space), and partly because a crowded train is not an appropriate place to treat someone when there's a carriage full of passengers all offering "helpful" advice and listening to everything that's said.

In some circumstances it's best to leave the person where they are and wait for an ambulance crew to make the decision to move.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

My wife is epileptic and she uses the term "fits".

My brother is epileptic and he uses the term 'fits' too. This thread is the first time I have ever seen anybody take exception to the term.

 

[Llanigraham]

While we're at it, I am surprised at the insensitivity of referring to a person - of whatever age - who is unfortunate enough to suffer from one of the forms of this debilitating condition, as "an epileptic", although I appreciate the irony in this context.

I hope you were trying to be funny!
My son is an epileptic; he suffers from epilepsy; his Driving Licence states it, as does his ID bracelet.
And yes, you can drive as long as you haven't had an episode in the last 12 months (in his case) and they are controlled by drugs.

Well done to SWt for some very good advice, as stated earlier.

 

[Greenback]

One of my oldest friends is epileptic, and we went inter railing together in the 1980's. I knew what to do if he had a fit, and he referred to himself as epileptic and referred to his episodes as fits.

Maybe the terminology has changed now, but I doubt he has. I'm pretty sure he still calls them fits.

 

[1e10]

A paramedic told me that on average everyone has a fit of some sort in their life, most often in their sleep without them ever knowing. Not sure how much truth there is in that though.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

While we're at it, I am surprised at the insensitivity of referring to a person - of whatever age - who is unfortunate enough to suffer from one of the forms of this debilitating condition, as "an epileptic", although I appreciate the irony in this context.

I hope you were trying to be funny!
My son is an epileptic; he suffers from epilepsy; his Driving Licence states it, as does his ID bracelet.

I'm afraid you have missed the point, to some perhaps rather a subtle one, which is about not defining, or worse stereotyping, people in terms of a condition or disability which they might have. For example, I'm short sighted and wear glasses to correct this and other minor visual impairments and I am happy to discuss having myopia and astigmatism but these conditions do not define me. I would take exception to being referred to as "a myopic" or "an astigmatic."

I remember this being raised with specific reference to epilepsy in professional training in supporting various form of disability fully 20 years ago.

Some people have epilepsy; this is noted in medical and employment records and other documentation. Such persons may well consider themselves to be "epileptic" (adjective), but that does not entitle others to describe them as "an epileptic" (noun), as this encourages unhelpful stereotyping.

That is why I remain surprised that you are unhappy with "fits" but seem untroubled by describing someone as "an epileptic". Driving licences do not do this, they note the condition of epilepsy.

 

[pethadine82]

There are other things such as tumours that can trigger a fit. A tumour in the brain

 

[14xxDave]

Interestingly, the Tyne and Wear Metro have a policy of not removing an ill person from the train, thus of course causing massive delays while the ambulance attends.