Essex Road

[simple simon]

Tbh the NSE signage looks better than the new stuff!

My view exactly! The only positive thing I can say about the new station name frieze is that its functional.

I find the older NSE frieze to have been more attractive (visually). A nicer font, more colourful, even some transport operator branding!

I wonder what is the fate of the old signage - dumped? for sale? donated to a transport museum?

It would be a shame to see it dumped, especially when there will people people who would 'show the love' with hard earned cash. After all, if the London Transport Museum can make money selling former train parts (luggage racks, passenger door buttons, etc) and even BR sold off things at its Collectors Corner shop near Euston station, so the same should be possible with this iconic, historic and authentic Network SouthEast signage.


re: the platform wall tiles, I hope they are kept. They are very acceptable visually and my concern is that any replacement would be horrid - by way of example, Kings Cross Underground subsurface station (ie: Met, Circle Hamm& City lines) which had attractive 1940's era tiles but these were replaced with what I can only describe as a visual dogs dinner. Sheer vandalism - things which are not broken should not be 'fixed'.

However, the passageways would benefit from a refresh, as these are dull and uninspiring - maybe the new tiles could be installed over the old ones?

 

[simple simon]

This is the photo which I tweeted last night.

First image from March 2009, second image from December 2018.

Simon

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Have they changed the official passenger flow as well?

Look at the direction sign above and to the immediate left of the passageway in the two images...

 

[edwin_m]

Have they changed the official passenger flow as well?

Look at the direction sign above and to the immediate left of the passageway in the two images...

I think it's still the same. The old image had a "Way Out" on the station name frieze pointing to the left, a few inches to the right of the centreline of the cross passage, and the "Way Out" sign beyond appears to be pointing to the right. So I think both of these are meant to indicate the exit that is visible, albeit that the first one is pretty misleading. By accident or design the placement of the new signs is a bit better. The suspended sign is clearly indicating the same exit on both pictures.

 

[pdeaves]

I wonder what is the fate of the old signage - dumped? for sale? donated to a transport museum?

Is it not just covered over with new (un-)branded stickers?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is it not just covered over with new (un-)branded stickers?

Wasn’t one of the points made some years ago that the frieze couldn’t be vinyled because of underground fire safety rules? Then because they couldn’t afford the proper enamelled metal signs nothing happened. Always thought that was a bit of a suspect excuse...

 

[OvergroundMatt]

Also, the new frieze is REALLY dirty! I don't know why the new signage should be so filthy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also, the new frieze is REALLY dirty! I don't know why the new signage should be so filthy.

If it it vinyl, it's probably got a lot of static and so attracting muck. Just needs someone to walk along with a brush.

 

[Fred26]

If they took the wall tiles etc off, there’d be so much asbestos need sorting that they would need to shut the line for months. The report into air quality down there was absolutely damning as drivers had to start wearing face masks: mould, bacteria, yeast and asbestos were all there. It was shocking.

The tunnel cleaning didn’t happen, the asbestos isn’t going to be moved and I dare say the one small thing done was cab cleaning once at Hornsey.

That's not entirely true. There are plenty of places where tiles have fallen off and are cracked, etc, but it's just concrete behind, nothing more. However, you are right about the air quality report. It is awful. Even just the dust is horrific. Go down there, by all means, but my advice is don't touch anything. Just look at the emergency light handrails (which don't work), they're covered in filth.

Also, drivers don't have to wear masks. The union would like them to, but most don't. If anyone should be wearing masks it's the station staff, but again, most don't. The problem is they're uncomfortable and cumbersome, and wearing them for 8 hours a day would be a horrible experience. They're not designed to be worn for that long, but unless you're going to wear it for the whole shift, what's the point?

Wasn’t one of the points made some years ago that the frieze couldn’t be vinyled because of underground fire safety rules? Then because they couldn’t afford the proper enamelled metal signs nothing happened. Always thought that was a bit of a suspect excuse...

They are vinyls laid over what is already there.

 

[simple simon]

Northern City Line Network SouthEast branding removal status:

Highbury and Islington, Essex Road: Done.

Old Street: Northbound platform done except for NSE branded platform number
sign. Southbound platform not done.

Moorgate: Not done!

Situation might change daily!

Simon

 

[jon0844]

I wonder what will happen to the tiles? Surely if they want to upgrade the look, these are what makes the platforms look old? That and the other 'furniture' like the hand rails, cabinets etc.

The station name signs actually looked fine and most people probably didn't even know what the logos represented. Change them last!

 

[Hadders]

I was in London this afternoon and had an hour to kill so went to have a look at the NCL stations.

The rebranding is simply vinyl over stickers placed over the old enamel signs. If you look carefully enough you can see the old lettering beneath. I'm surprised the fire regs allow them to do this.



The over stickers are poorly fitted in some cases and already starting to peel. I was tempted to try and and completely pull one off!



As noted above the new signs are filthy. Maybe this is deliberate to fit in with the general ambiance of the stations on this part of the line



They seem to be working north to south. As stated above Highbury & Islington is done, Essex Road is done, Old Street Northbound is done but the southbound is only partially complete, Moorgate is yet to be done.



Happily there is still copious Network South East branding remaining at Essex Road. Hopefully this will remain as it is trackside.



You do have to wonder about the wisdom of doing this rebranding at this time - it's taken over 20 years since Network South East ceased to exist to change the branding yet if rumours are to be believed re-branding will need to happen again if the service gets transferred to TfL. I know TfL are strapped for cash but I absolutely guarantee that the signs would get changed on day 1!

I do hope this isn't part of the £15 million passenger improvement works GTR have agreed to pay for as a penalty for their part in the Thameslink shambles.

 

[387star]

I'd hate to drive trains down there not the most salubrious line!

Really is a timewarp

I think the route map waa revealed after removing a great northern map

I guess it is no more dusty than a standard underground station?

 

[choochoochoo]

I'd hate to drive trains down there not the most salubrious line!

Really is a timewarp

I think the route map waa revealed after removing a great northern map

I guess it is no more dusty than a standard underground station?

It's worse than LU stations. LU have a cleaning regime. GTR/NR never bothered to clean the tunnels

 

[Hadders]

I'd hate to drive trains down there not the most salubrious line!

Really is a timewarp

I think the route map waa revealed after removing a great northern map

I guess it is no more dusty than a standard underground station?

The route map's been there for years - not covered up by a Great Northern map. I've got photos I took of it earlier this year.

 

[moogal]

Out of interest, based on a few comments here - why would over-vinyled signs be a problem for fire regs?

 

[Hadders]

Out of interest, based on a few comments here - why would over-vinyled signs be a problem for fire regs?

The the event of a fire the last thing you want is vinyl burning giving off toxic smoke underground.

 

[swt_passenger]

Extract from “The Fire Precautions (Sub-surface Railway Stations) (England) Regulations 2009”.
What used to be generally termed ‘section 12’ stations.

Materials used in internal construction of premises
8.—(1) Any material which is used in the construction of an internal wall or ceiling in any
public area must be of limited combustibility.
(2) To inhibit the spread of fire within the premises, any material which is applied to the surface of an internal wall or ceiling in any public area must—
(a) adequately resist the spread of flame over the surface; and
(b) have, if ignited, either a rate of heat release or a rate of fire growth, which is reasonable in the circumstances
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ment_data/file/15114/subsurfacerailsafety.pdf

The linked doc is a guidance note which includes the current regulations within.

 

[sprunt]

If it it vinyl, it's probably got a lot of static and so attracting muck. Just needs someone to walk along with a brush.

I kept a look out for the new signs while I was passing through today, and although I only saw them from the inside of a train they looked absolutely filthy - it's not just dust that's been attracted by static, it's a thick looking layer. A brush isn't going to get rid of it, it's weird.

 

[paulravuslante]

The the event of a fire the last thing you want is vinyl burning giving off toxic smoke underground.

Similar problem at Heathrow 2&3 and Terminal 4 stations then as most of the wall tiles have had vinyl stuck to them for a number of years now.

 

[387star]

I was in London this afternoon and had an hour to kill so went to have a look at the NCL stations.

The rebranding is simply vinyl over stickers placed over the old enamel signs. If you look carefully enough you can see the old lettering beneath. I'm surprised the fire regs allow them to do this.

View attachment 56490

The over stickers are poorly fitted in some cases and already starting to peel. I was tempted to try and and completely pull one off!

View attachment 56489 View attachment 56492

As noted above the new signs are filthy. Maybe this is deliberate to fit in with the general ambiance of the stations on this part of the line

View attachment 56493

They seem to be working north to south. As stated above Highbury & Islington is done, Essex Road is done, Old Street Northbound is done but the southbound is only partially complete, Moorgate is yet to be done.

View attachment 56497

Happily there is still copious Network South East branding remaining at Essex Road. Hopefully this will remain as it is trackside.

View attachment 56496 View attachment 56494

You do have to wonder about the wisdom of doing this rebranding at this time - it's taken over 20 years since Network South East ceased to exist to change the branding yet if rumours are to be believed re-branding will need to happen again if the service gets transferred to TfL. I know TfL are strapped for cash but I absolutely guarantee that the signs would get changed on day 1!

I do hope this isn't part of the £15 million passenger improvement works GTR have agreed to pay for as a penalty for their part in the Thameslink shambles.

These signs still here ?

The new moorgate tiles are a massive improvement but the other stations are untouched

Why is it only Essex road that has trackside network southeast branding,?
Doesn't old street have trackside WAGN era signs?