Essex Thameside ITT Issued

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LNW-GW Joint

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This has popped up on the DfT web site http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/essex-thameside-franchise
It was due in "June", but has overtaken the GW ITT which was due in "May".

I'm not a specialist in the LTS world, but I was interested to see that new rolling stock was not ruled out in the ITT, which is for 15 years.
I think the Class 357s are currently leased till March 2013 and it is not mandated that they are used thereafter (though I expect there is little immediate choice).
Bidders are asked for their rolling stock plans to cater for growth on the LTS system. It mentions the possible use of "Metro" high-capacity stock.
Bids in by 27 September (bidders are Abellio, First, MTR and NX), winner announced Jan 2013, startup May 2013.
 
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Aictos

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This has popped up on the DfT web site http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/essex-thameside-franchise
It was due in "June", but has overtaken the GW ITT which was due in "May".

I'm not a specialist in the LTS world, but I was interested to see that new rolling stock was not ruled out in the ITT, which is for 15 years.
I think the Class 357s are currently leased till March 2013 and it is not mandated that they are used thereafter (though I expect there is little immediate choice).
Bidders are asked for their rolling stock plans to cater for growth on the LTS system. It mentions the possible use of "Metro" high-capacity stock.
Bids in by 27 September (bidders are Abellio, First, MTR and NX), winner announced Jan 2013, startup May 2013.

IF the winning bidder decides to go for new rolling stock, one place I like to see the 357s go is up north working Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Victoria to Liverpool Lime Street services.

Let the 319s work the Thames Valley instead.
 

spurs4life

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By all mean take 357s they really annoy me having to log in on that bloody computer every time would not miss that.lol
 

fgwrich

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By all mean take 357s they really annoy me having to log in on that bloody computer every time would not miss that.lol

Windows by any chance? :lol:

I wonder if this franchise could be a usefull platform for units such as the Desiro City? They'd certainly work on the 'Metro High Frequency' type services.
 

spurs4life

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Correct windows 95 at that.I know that they wanted to run more Laindon services so they could uses something like 313 or similar because the 357s are so over board for that service.
 

tbtc

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IF the winning bidder decides to go for new rolling stock, one place I like to see the 357s go is up north working Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Victoria to Liverpool Lime Street services

357s would be fine for most Northern routes (where a four coach unit would generally suffice - without getting into yet another debate about Bolton to Oxford Road in rush hour...), which would allow the Thamesside franchise to get something with corridor connections suited to working in multiple (which most C2C services will do).
 

spurs4life

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That's a very good comment about the 357s and getting units with corrider connection would help problem is commuters have been spoiled with these units and might not be very happy with any thing less than what they have.
 

tbtc

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That's a very good comment about the 357s and getting units with corrider connection would help problem is commuters have been spoiled with these units and might not be very happy with any thing less than what they have.

I appreciate that DOO means no Guard needs to walk through the entire train, but it seems daft to be running four/eight coach services so often with no way of passengers walking from one unit to another.

Since the Thamesside franchise seems to need additional units, why not go "all new"?
 

Aictos

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There is one tiny detail which I have yet to see in any published plans by the DfT and that's if guard panels to operate the doors will be able to be retrofitted in the carriages or in the actual cabs of any rolling stock that's currently used in DOO operations.

I wonder if this will be covered by any refurbishment....?
 

IanXC

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There is one tiny detail which I have yet to see in any published plans by the DfT and that's if guard panels to operate the doors will be able to be retrofitted in the carriages or in the actual cabs of any rolling stock that's currently used in DOO operations.

I wonder if this will be covered by any refurbishment....?

Not quite the same but weren't the 180s delivered with Driver control of the doors, and was some modification not made when they were in service with Northern so that the Guard operated the doors? Subsequently removed now that they have returned to FGW.
 

telstarbox

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That's a very good comment about the 357s and getting units with corrider connection would help problem is commuters have been spoiled with these units and might not be very happy with any thing less than what they have.

Commuters will still use the trains whether they like the stock or not.

 

jopsuk

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The single class of stock is both a blessing a curse for the LTS- blessing, as obviously it is hugely beneficial to operational reliability- and the nature of the line means a single seating layout is just about suitable for all services. Curse, as from what I've read the fleet is being used to its maximum, leaving no way to increase capacity.

Ideally new stock would be a total replacement and expansion..

Question: are the 12 car services run with a guard/second driver? Used the line on Saturday, the 12-car boards didn't seem to have monitors or mirrors at them
 

HH

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Since the Thamesside franchise seems to need additional units, why not go "all new"?

Money. The Rolling Stock plan might be what wins or loses this Franchise - there's not a lot of room for differential on the other numbers, unless someone gets over-optimistic on revenue (this is not a "stockbroker" railway, even if 80% of the journeys are commuting to London).

Bidders have the choice of refreshing the existing units and adding a small additional fleet, or replacing the whole fleet. There's no doubt that every bidder would prefer to do the latter, but it all depends on what they can get - and most importantly at what price.
 

87015

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The single class of stock is both a blessing a curse for the LTS- blessing, as obviously it is hugely beneficial to operational reliability- and the nature of the line means a single seating layout is just about suitable for all services. Curse, as from what I've read the fleet is being used to its maximum, leaving no way to increase capacity.
Its also proved to be too inflexible for the current railway, four cars are not enough for many services but eight is too much - hence the massive amount of fresh air carried around at weekends with 8 cars because 4 cars lead to too many complaints...
 

Aictos

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Its also proved to be too inflexible for the current railway, four cars are not enough for many services but eight is too much - hence the massive amount of fresh air carried around at weekends with 8 cars because 4 cars lead to too many complaints...

Simple solution is for a 6 car fleet to be introduced then run them in pairs in the peaks.
 

tbtc

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Money. The Rolling Stock plan might be what wins or loses this Franchise - there's not a lot of room for differential on the other numbers, unless someone gets over-optimistic on revenue (this is not a "stockbroker" railway, even if 80% of the journeys are commuting to London).

Bidders have the choice of refreshing the existing units and adding a small additional fleet, or replacing the whole fleet. There's no doubt that every bidder would prefer to do the latter, but it all depends on what they can get - and most importantly at what price.

I guess there's very little for the bidders to "differ" on - the timetable basically writes itself, there are no new links you can really open up as eyecatching promises in your tender... (compared to, say, the WCML bids including links from London to Blackpool)
 

HH

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I guess there's very little for the bidders to "differ" on - the timetable basically writes itself, there are no new links you can really open up as eyecatching promises in your tender... (compared to, say, the WCML bids including links from London to Blackpool)

Yes, exactly. This could actually be won on quality unless someone "buys" it or comes up with something very clever.
 

calc7

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Anybody who knows the line's operations in detail - what is the scope for cutting down costs through operational efficiencies (at all levels in the company)?
 

jopsuk

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No detailed knowledge, but I'd got the impression this is a very efficient line as it is, and there's not really space for reliability improvements
 
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