Ethiopian Airways flight crashes (10/03) + 737 MAX grounding

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by atillathehunn, 10 Mar 2019.

  1. atillathehunn

    atillathehunn Established Member

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    It says so on the booking (our travel agent is also not booking flights on it), and if it turns up at the gate, don't get on it.

    What's the cost of rebooking: $1000.
    The cost of losing a human life: Discuss.

    I'm travelling to Nairobi tomorrow. I almost booked Ethiopian a few weeks ago, but Air France edged them out on price and convenience. It's superstitious, but I'm a bit glad.
     
  2. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    As long as you're not talking one of those highly dodgy African small airlines banned from the EU, an airline that's just had a serious accident is about as safe an airline as you'll get - they will be totally paranoid and attentive about everything and all the built-up complacency will have gone.

    And flying on a 737 Max 8 is probably still safer than driving to the airport or flying was in the 60s and 70s, though this does have a nasty undertone of the de Havilland Comet crashes.

    I wouldn't read too much into Asian countries banning them - Asian countries are very big on "not losing face" and "something being seen to be done", whereas European countries tend as a whole to be much more factual and calculated about actions like this. If any European country or major airline grounds them, that's really time to listen.
     
  3. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    That's my view as well. The commercial aircraft industry has long based its sales pitch on each new generation being just like the existing one with a few goodies added. This plays into the airlines who want to avoid pilot retraining costs which include simulator time and additional crew on the flight deck. It's no coincidence that the 737, the most successful jet passenger aircraft ever, has the same (737) number as it did in the late '60s when introduced. The current planes may look vaguely like the -100 models, but they are a totally different beast from almost every aspect plus their passenger capacity is heading towards three times the -100' and range similarly up to three times also. Each generation has been aggressively sold on the ease in which crew can operate almost without any additional training. They have clearly dropped the ball this time. The FAA seems to be defending Boeing at the moment. I doubt if they would if the first or second crash had been on an internal US flight.
     
  4. TheEdge

    TheEdge Established Member

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    It does have a tiny air of Comet to it, hopefully not as serious!

    Well Australia has now banned it, that's a bit more like a European nation
     
  5. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Yes, I'd certainly listen to that, and so I'd expect the EU or US may come soon.
     
  6. RichJF

    RichJF Member

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    737 Max 8 now temporarily banned in the following countries:
    Australia, Indonesia, China, Singapore (all Max family), Mongolia, South Korea

    Following airlines have grounded their Max 8 fleets:
    Ethiopian, Comair, Cayman, GOL Brazil, jet Airways, Aeromexico, Aerolíneas Argentinas.

    I suspect the MCAS suite has not been fully bedded down & pilots not been given enough training time to get used to the subtle differences over the older 737 versions
     
    Last edited: 12 Mar 2019
  7. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It's a bodge-job. Some are comparing it to the Airbus flight laws, but it's nothing of the sort and is totally counter to Boeing's principle that the pilot is king by potentially contradicting what the pilot wants to do at a critical moment (not just, as per Airbus[1], stopping them doing something - but directly countering them). It's a bodged-on mess that was added because fixing it properly would have cost too much.

    That it even exists in my view speaks volumes. But anyone who was involved in the decision not to tell pilots about it has blood on their hands. Pilots need to know EVERYTHING about their aircraft.

    There is no room for this kind of thing in aviation.

    [1] I know Airbus are not angels, cf that crash on a test flight when it decided it was landing.
     
  8. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    CAA has now banned B737 MAX8 from UK airspace. Going global now then?
    Boeing shares will plummet today.
     
  9. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    I haven't seen this anywhere, have you got a source or are the big news channels just a bit behind?

    Is the MAX8 particularly different to the other MAX varieties for that one to be singled out as the only one with this issue?
     
  10. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    You reckon the US might? I very much doubt it.

    https://www.caa.co.uk/News/Boeing-737-MAX-Aircraft/

     
  11. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I don't think there is anyone operating the MAX9 to, from or in the UK.
     
  12. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    TUI and Norwegian do.
     
  13. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    As I said above, McDonnell Douglas. Remember the MD-11's short horizontal stabilisers?
     
  14. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    I thought Norwegian only had the MAX8s and TUI's MAX10s are not yet delivered?
     
  15. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    In any case they have banned all 737 MAX, not just the 8.
     
  16. RichJF

    RichJF Member

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    Appears to be just the Max 8 & 9 atm.

    Royal Air Maroc have also grounded their Max 8 too in other news
     
    Last edited: 12 Mar 2019
  17. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    The title of the just released news from the CAA says "Boeing 737 MAX Aircraft"
     
  18. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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  19. jellybaby

    jellybaby Member

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    The CAA Safety Directive is at http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=11&mode=detail&id=9020

     
  20. rdeez

    rdeez Member

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    BBC is reporting that a Turkish Airlines flight on its way to Birmingham from Istanbul was turned around back to Istanbul following the announcement. No idea how far into its journey it was (presumably less than half?)
     
  21. 87015

    87015 Established Member

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    TK1969 just shy of Frankfurt, pulled a u-turn and storming back.
     
  22. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    France and Germany now also added to the list.
     
  23. The 4th Rail

    The 4th Rail Member

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    Will Airlines receive any sort of compensation for the groundings?

    If not I would hate to see Norwegian's finances...
     
  24. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I guess that'll be because UK ATC would refuse entry into UK airspace.
     
  25. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    Not sure about that. Two TUI 737MAXs were allowed to enter UK airspace and land, I think it might be Turkish Airlines who possibly don't want two of their assets grounded in the UK when there was an oppurtunity to get them back to Turkey. Thats my best guess anyway!
     
  26. AndrewE

    AndrewE Established Member

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    Well the problem does seem to be soon after take-off, so it would be reasonable to ground them so they didn't fall out of the sky while still climbing over London...
     
  27. TheEdge

    TheEdge Established Member

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    So now the EASA has now banned MAX flights. @Bletchleyite does this now make it "time to listen"? :lol:

    By my maths of the 350 or so MAXs delivered across the world at least 160 are grounded.
     
  28. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    Lot of US senators pressing FAA to ground as well.
     
  29. RichJF

    RichJF Member

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    UAE have now issued a temporary ban on 737 Max. That' s a biggy. FlyDubai (one of the largest Max operators) technically unable to fly them now!
     
  30. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    Aeromexico and Brazil's GOL have grounded their 737MAX fleets too.

    Pretty much only US carriers still fying them.
     

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