Ethiopian Airways flight crashes (10/03) + 737 MAX grounding

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by atillathehunn, 10 Mar 2019.

  1. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    The FAA is usually considered to be a regulator with integrity. That reputation may become tarnished if they sit on their hands much longer. It will look like they are being held back to make America great again, - wrong move!
     
  2. Tim R-T-C

    Tim R-T-C Established Member

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    [​IMG]

    A Smartwings 737 MAX flight from Cape Verde to Prague is forced to circle as it cannot enter EU airspace.

    This seems utterly daft, surely increasing risk - of pilot fatigue if nothing else.
     
  3. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    On the move again. Wonder if it's being diverted to Tunis.
     

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  4. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    There is also one from dubai circling over Turkey, doesn't seem. Right to not let them in surely landing approval is given before takeoff?
     
  5. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    Looks like the Cape Verde one is landing in Tunis and the dubai one in Ankara, i assume smartwings are sending alternative planes to go collect them.
     
  6. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    Next Gen 800's can still fly, just in case anyone gets confused. (Next Gen's are the previous gen to the MAX)
     
  7. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

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    Has this happened before in recent years?

    I can understand reputational concern and image but can't help feeling something is definitely known here.
     
  8. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    Last one's that come to mind are Concorde, the DC-10 and the Comet 1. And I've just covered the History of the Passenger Jet Aircraft.
     
  9. TheEdge

    TheEdge Established Member

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    It depends how you want to measure it. The Comet 1 was at the cutting edge of aviation and no one really understood how metal fatigue worked on a pressurised airliner.

    The DC10 issues were based around a newly but poorly designed door.

    But both incidents saw previously big players in the industry go down.
     
  10. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    FAA are refusing to ground them. Not surprising to be fair, although a friend did say how quick would they have done it if this happened to the Airbus A321 Neo.

    I am not in anyway suggesting this is going to happen, as I am sure the planes are still airworthy but until this issue is sorted out many are taking precautions, but if an American Boeing 737MAX was to crash now can you imagine the uproar, it would be huge.
     
  11. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    One thing I find to be quite interesting on this one is reports of flames from the rear of the plane before it crashed - unless the APU was running there is not a lot in the tail that *could* catch fire. Does the 737 MAX have lithium-ion batteries of the type that caused issues on the 787? If this is found to be the cause this could ground a *lot* more aircraft for major redesigns.
     
  12. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    Is there anything that could cause that if part of the aircraft broke during the dive due to the forces involved? I have also heard the eyes can play tricks on you with the light due to the speed sometimes as well. Or they could be lying. Or it could be true!
     
  13. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I suppose there is the fuel line to the APU.

    The most likely, if it isn't true, is confirmation bias - people expect to see a crashing plane on fire, so they "see" fire even if it is not there.
     
  14. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    True, they didn't have 65+ years of experience in building passenger jets unlike Boeing. In fact the 737 is a derivative of the 367-80 like the 707 and it's sister aircraft, the 727.
    Well from the Lion Air crash, it seems to be like this, although those 2 were design faults. Concorde was just the combination of the right things on the right day (ironically, caused by an improper repair to a Continental DC-10!).
    Your friend is stating the obvious there, although Trump may force the 737 MAX to be grounded.
     
  15. robk23oxf

    robk23oxf Member

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    Witness statements tend to be unreliable. The crash investigators will look into these reports of fire coming from the back as it came down but I doubt they'll be a significant part of the investigation.
     
  16. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The flight recorders will be the main place to start as they have been found, and if there was a fire they will contain evidence of it.
     
  17. DimTim

    DimTim Member

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  18. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    That could force US carriers to remove them from some services as there are agreements between Canada and the US that flights on domestic services in either country that are routed near to the border can divert over the border to airports in the other country in emergencies. Not long now before the FAA climbs down. Are there any in Mexico?
     
  19. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    Well they can't fly to Alaska anymore.
     
  20. cjp

    cjp Established Member

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    from the bbc https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47553787 with a quote from Canada's transport minister
     
  21. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    The uneven air flow can cause the fuel not to be burnt properly and so you get lots of smoke out of the APU, not flames just smoke (unburnt fuel).

    Whats particularly interesting with the Canada ban is they've said they didn't base it directly on the crash but on analysing the flight paths of MAX flying within their airspace and seeing that they were experiencing the same struggle for altitude and erratic ascent speed.
     
  22. robk23oxf

    robk23oxf Member

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    Moments ago the United States announced they're grounding the 737 MAX fleet. It seemed likely they would do so after Canada grounded them earlier today.
     
  23. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The APU wouldn't normally be running in flight.
     
  24. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    Yup, Trump has grounded them.
     
  25. cjp

    cjp Established Member

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    Not before time - I now expect Boeing share price to nose dive like their planes.
     
  26. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    It was already down 10% earlier this week, and another 2% today. However that was set against quite a lot of growth already this year so essentially it is back to where it was 6 weeks ago.
     
  27. DimTim

    DimTim Member

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  28. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    On the 737 is provides secondary and backup power during flight charging the battery and air conditioning and cabin pressurisation during take off. MAX does use it less, the new APU has three air intake settings Closed, Ground position (45deg) and Flight position (17deg). Having the APU in flight position increases fuel consumption by 1%.
     
  29. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    Bbc reports that US pilots have also reported the issue of having sharp nose down instructions.
     
  30. cjp

    cjp Established Member

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    From the BBC web site
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47567039
     

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