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EU Referendum - my vote

Has the EU debate here and elesewhere changed you mind?

  • YES - I have changed my mind

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • NO - my mind has not changed because of the debate

    Votes: 25 33.8%
  • I will vote leave

    Votes: 9 12.2%
  • YES - I have changed my mind and will vote leave

    Votes: 4 5.4%
  • I wil vote remain

    Votes: 34 45.9%
  • YES -I have changed my mind and wil vote remain

    Votes: 1 1.4%

  • Total voters
    74
  • Poll closed .
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cjp

Member
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In front of a computer
This is a place to declare if all the discussion here and elsewhere has changed your opinion.

It also give you a fresh chance to declare your vote should you choose.

This is not a place for discussion or challenging mine or other members views.
If you want to do that go here http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=126375



FWI
I am still not satisfied that a body whose Court of Auditors has yet to sign off on it books is one we should be giving millions to spend.
Nor am I impresses by a CAP which gave money to farmers to grow nothing, and harmed fishermen' s livelihoods.
I am dismayed that leavers seemed to tying their thought to immigration as this country has thrived on peaceful immigration and has been a refuge for those in genuine need for years and years. We need immigrants .
The fact that so much is spent on people who do not contribute and that the rich continue to get tax breaks – benefits BHS & Vodafone – is all down to corrupt/greedy British MPs elected by simply being on a party ticket continuing to be influenced by big business, power and money.

Do vote.
 
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LateThanNever

Member
Joined
18 Jul 2013
Messages
1,011
This is a place to declare if all the discussion here and elsewhere has changed your opinion.

It also give you a fresh chance to declare your vote should you choose.

This is not a place for discussion or challenging mine or other members views.
If you want to do that go here http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=126375



FWI
I am still not satisfied that a body whose Court of Auditors has yet to sign off on it books is one we should be giving millions to spend.
Nor am I impresses by a CAP which gave money to farmers to grow nothing, and harmed fishermen' s livelihoods.
I am dismayed that leavers seemed to tying their thought to immigration as this country has thrived on peaceful immigration and has been a refuge for those in genuine need for years and years. We need immigrants .
The fact that so much is spent on people who do not contribute and that the rich continue to get tax breaks – benefits BHS & Vodafone – is all down to corrupt/greedy British MPs elected by simply being on a party ticket continuing to be influenced by big business, power and money.

Do vote.

I'm advised by accountants that it is in effect impossible for the court of Auditors to sign off on EU accounts. Indeed when were the British governments' accounts last signed off?

And indeed I agree that our governments are just overinfluenced by corporations and banks (90% of MP's according to some reports, do not know where money comes from).
To think that we will get rid of any problems by ditching the EU, that do not in fact engender worse ones is fanciful. It is Scottish Nationalism writ large!
 

me123

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2007
Messages
8,517
The debate has been dire. When I look back to the Scottish Independence Referendum, I remember a positive debate. People becoming politically engaged, talking about the issues, debating the issues. Over 80% of the electorate turned out to vote. This, by contrast, has been one of the most dull political spectacles that I can recall, and that's up against some stiff competition. Whilst there are good arguments coming from both sides, in general the debate seems to centre on vague and unsubstantiated claims. "Vote to stay in or your pension will vanish!". "Vote to leave or millions of Turkish people will steal your jobs!". Surely no-one believes any of this garbage?

The public already have a pretty poor understanding of what the EU actually do - and I'd count myself amongst those who have only a general idea of the role of the EU. I suspect quite a few campaigners on both sides also fall into this category! Quite remarkably, I seem to have a poorer understanding of the EU than what I did several months ago. The debate has been abysmal. There are very few facts from either side, it's mostly unsubstantiated drivel and vague predictions. I like to think of myself as being quite politically involved in general, and I did originally keep up to date with the EU debate, but I'm now actively avoiding the TV debates and news articles.

I've always supported remaining in the EU, and that's how I will vote next week. The leave campaign have not managed to change my position. To be honest, if I had supported leaving the EU previously, I don't think the "in" campaign would have swayed me either.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Joined
21 Apr 2016
Messages
2,319
Location
Sunny South Lancs
Perhaps the most dishonest aspect of the campaign has been the leavers trying to make promises as if this is an election which will put them into power if the result goes their way. Barring a change in Conservative Party leadership, which might in itself lead to an early general election, it would be the responsibility of the current Prime Minister/Cabinet to lead negotiations with the EU over arrangements for a Brexit. Remember that Cameron made it very clear that he would accept whatever verdict we, the electorate, come up with. And a decision to leave will almost certainly open up the Scottish independence issue all over again which could have even bigger repercussions for Parliament than Brexit.
 

Spamcan81

Member
Joined
12 Sep 2011
Messages
777
Location
Bedfordshire
I was undecided but having seen some of who want us to leave and the thought of them possibly running the country, I'm intending to vote remain. The campaign has been mostly dire with increasing amounts of hyperbole emanating from both camps.
 

Harbornite

Established Member
Joined
7 May 2016
Messages
3,634
I was undecided but having seen some of who want us to leave and the thought of them possibly running the country, I'm intending to vote remain. The campaign has been mostly dire with increasing amounts of hyperbole emanating from both camps.

Agreed, it has been a crap campaign with hysteria and bullcrap in place of the facts. The flotilla thing sums it up really, it's beyond a parody.
 

507021

Established Member
Joined
19 Feb 2015
Messages
4,351
Location
Liverpool
I had decided how I was going to vote before the referendum campaign started, and my decision hasn't changed.
 

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,597
I was undecided but having seen some of who want us to leave and the thought of them possibly running the country, I'm intending to vote remain. The campaign has been mostly dire with increasing amounts of hyperbole emanating from both camps.

Vote whichever way you want but that seems a pretty bizarre way of deciding, why don't you just toss a coin?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I had decided how I was going to vote before the referendum campaign started, and my decision hasn't changed.

Neither has mine and the same is probably true for the vast majority.
 

Busaholic

Established Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
10,053
I am too old to consider emigrating, especially with health considerations in mind, plus I am not well off financially, but if Brexit are successful I shall be in despair - the people most behind it are the worst possible people to be in charge of this country's affairs - I am hardly a fan of Cameron or Osborne, but they are paragons of virtue compared to the current alternatives.
 

Glenmutchkin

Member
Joined
14 Dec 2011
Messages
617
Location
Scotland
This is not a place for discussion or challenging mine or other members views.


FWI
I am still not satisfied that a body whose Court of Auditors has yet to sign off on it books is one we should be giving millions to spend.
Nor am I impresses by a CAP which gave money to farmers to grow nothing, and harmed fishermen' s livelihoods.
I am dismayed that leavers seemed to tying their thought to immigration as this country has thrived on peaceful immigration and has been a refuge for those in genuine need for years and years. We need immigrants .
The fact that so much is spent on people who do not contribute and that the rich continue to get tax breaks – benefits BHS & Vodafone – is all down to corrupt/greedy British MPs elected by simply being on a party ticket continuing to be influenced by big business, power and money.

Do vote.

Let me get this right.

You don't want people to express their opinions on this thread.

You are, however, happy to express your own views here.

Are you one of those Democratic Brexiteers?
 

ExRes

Established Member
Joined
16 Dec 2012
Messages
3,402
Location
Back in Sussex
The flotilla thing sums it up really, it's beyond a parody.

I think Geldof may well have convinced some to vote Leave by his sick and selfish actions, he should try to remember, or at least find out, what fisherman have to do in order to put food on his very expensive plate, not to mention how few of them there are since the EU forced fleets to be scrapped with as little recompense as possible and men put on the dole, if the EU was held responsible in the way that Maggie Thatcher has been over the miners then perhaps people might reconsider their views of the EU somewhat

Meantime I doubt Geldof will be visiting any British fishing communities in the near future
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Let me get this right.

You don't want people to express their opinions on this thread.

You are, however, happy to express your own views here.

Are you one of those Democratic Brexiteers?

I don't think you are right, I think you need to read the original post again
 

317666

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Joined
4 Sep 2009
Messages
1,633
Location
Ely
I've always intended to vote remain, from the start I didn't think anything would change my mind and unsurprisingly it hasn't.
 

LateThanNever

Member
Joined
18 Jul 2013
Messages
1,011
I think Geldof may well have convinced some to vote Leave by his sick and selfish actions, he should try to remember, or at least find out, what fisherman have to do in order to put food on his very expensive plate, not to mention how few of them there are since the EU forced fleets to be scrapped with as little recompense as possible and men put on the dole, if the EU was held responsible in the way that Maggie Thatcher has been over the miners then perhaps people might reconsider their views of the EU somewhat

Meantime I doubt Geldof will be visiting any British fishing communities in the near future
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I don't think you are right, I think you need to read the original post again
I thought Geldof's demolition of Farage was complete.
It is undoubtedly true that the EU hasn't covered itself in glory on the fishing issue, but then Farage doesn't help if he attends less than one meeting in 40 of the fishing committee - of which he is a UK member.

But fishing is not everything. The important part of remaining in the EU is the increased opportunity it offers to our youth who already suffer much more than their parents from high debts and low pay. Leaving will just shut down another avenue of possibilty and who on earth wishes for that?
 

Phil.

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Joined
10 Oct 2015
Messages
1,323
Location
Penzance
I thought Geldof's demolition of Farage was complete.
It is undoubtedly true that the EU hasn't covered itself in glory on the fishing issue, but then Farage doesn't help if he attends less than one meeting in 40 of the fishing committee - of which he is a UK member.

But fishing is not everything. The important part of remaining in the EU is the increased opportunity it offers to our youth who already suffer much more than their parents from high debts and low pay. Leaving will just shut down another avenue of possibilty and who on earth wishes for that?

"..but fishing is not everything".

I'd like to see you and the tax dodger Geldof come to Newlyn and state that.
Geldof is just another millionaire champagne socialist who works in dreams and theory.
 
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LateThanNever

Member
Joined
18 Jul 2013
Messages
1,011
"..but fishing is not everything".

I'd like to see you and the tax dodger Geldof come to Newlyn and state that.
Geldof is just another millionaire champagne socialist who works in dreams and theory.

But fishing IS everything - in Newlyn!
 

Harbornite

Established Member
Joined
7 May 2016
Messages
3,634
"..but fishing is not everything".

I'd like to see you and the tax dodger Geldof come to Newlyn and state that.
Geldof is just another millionaire champagne socialist who works in dreams and theory.

The needs of the many vs the needs of the few.
 

AntoniC

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2011
Messages
752
Location
Southport
I have always been a passionate Europhile and was going to vote Remain when the Referendum was called.

My opinion has NOT changed through the weeks since the vote was called, and I have to say that both campaigns have been as bad as each other with the misinformation that they have pedalled.

I am an inner, as I can see the benefit that European money has made to my home city of Liverpool and I would much prefer to see the UK staying in Europe and having some influence, than being outside and having no influence.

Whatever the result on Thursday, the future is going to be interesting !
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Location
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As regards the flotilla/fishing issue I wonder how many people bothered to watch some of the more detailed background reporting on the subject which appeared on Newsnight (I think). It does appear that for many fishermen the main objection to the CFP is the EU having the temerity to impose quota restrictions to protect fishing stocks. But without such attempts at protection some fish stocks would no longer be viable. This affects other countries too, just ask the Dutch herring fishers.
 

bavvo

Member
Joined
22 Nov 2014
Messages
153
Location
Henley on Thames
My vote hasn't changed, I was and still am for remaining. But while I have been totally dismayed by the lacklustre and cynical remain campaign, the leave camp has utterly disgusted me with their thirties style xenophobic nationalism and deceit.
 

Gutfright

Member
Joined
22 Jan 2016
Messages
639
If the poll results are anything to go by, then campaigners on both sides have been quite poor at actually changing people's minds.
 

chris89

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Joined
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West Midlands (Severn Valley)
Since the option i would choose on the poll isn't there.

I am still currently undecided, but leaning towards Remain though, As believe it will be better for the UK. But the EU has to change it's self though.

Although, i don't agree with the 'United States of Europe' idea (Two Tier Europe is a better idea, so those who want a more federalised EU, can have it and those who don't can opt into the other tier) One Europe Army just sounds like a complete disaster waiting to happen.

Uncontrolled Immigration as many others are (Am not against Immigration though) The current situation throughout Europe with the current Migrants including those at Calais has brought it to light for many people. Although that is also up to our own Government to actually do something as well.

Both sides have been sprouting rubbish like anything it appears, trying to scare people into what they want to vote. Just reminds me a lot of the Scottish Independence Referendum, especially towards the later stages off it.

As many other areas, my one in particular after the floods in 2007 were helped a lot by EU Money, especially places like the SVR did.

Will most likely leave it until Thursday to make my mind up in total, what ever way the UK votes the future of our country and of the European Union will be changed. Comes down for many people i imagine vote with your Heart (Out of EU) or with your Head (Stay within).

I've got a idea what most of my friends will be voting for (Mostly Remain) Brother is undecided and Parents vote leave (They did both vote for joining the EEC in 1975 though)

Other half, i haven't asked her again yet, will see what she is thinking though.
 

LateThanNever

Member
Joined
18 Jul 2013
Messages
1,011
Since the option i would choose on the poll isn't there.

I am still currently undecided, but leaning towards Remain though, As believe it will be better for the UK. But the EU has to change it's self though.

Although, i don't agree with the 'United States of Europe' idea (Two Tier Europe is a better idea, so those who want a more federalised EU, can have it and those who don't can opt into the other tier) One Europe Army just sounds like a complete disaster waiting to happen.

Uncontrolled Immigration as many others are (Am not against Immigration though) The current situation throughout Europe with the current Migrants including those at Calais has brought it to light for many people. Although that is also up to our own Government to actually do something as well.

Both sides have been sprouting rubbish like anything it appears, trying to scare people into what they want to vote. Just reminds me a lot of the Scottish Independence Referendum, especially towards the later stages off it.

As many other areas, my one in particular after the floods in 2007 were helped a lot by EU Money, especially places like the SVR did.

Will most likely leave it until Thursday to make my mind up in total, what ever way the UK votes the future of our country and of the European Union will be changed. Comes down for many people i imagine vote with your Heart (Out of EU) or with your Head (Stay within).

I've got a idea what most of my friends will be voting for (Mostly Remain) Brother is undecided and Parents vote leave (They did both vote for joining the EEC in 1975 though)

Other half, i haven't asked her again yet, will see what she is thinking though.

I think this half hour lecture
https://www.facebook.com/UniversityofLiverpool/videos/1293361974024537/?pnref=story
from a Law Professor from Liverpool University looks at the EU from a practical, legal view and really demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt that it is either remain or something like a mixture of the unknown and chaos for the next decade as a minimum. Well worth a watch as much of it concerns things we rarely hear about in any coherent way!
 

chris89

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1,286
Location
West Midlands (Severn Valley)
I think this half hour lecture
https://www.facebook.com/UniversityofLiverpool/videos/1293361974024537/?pnref=story
from a Law Professor from Liverpool University looks at the EU from a practical, legal view and really demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt that it is either remain or something like a mixture of the unknown and chaos for the next decade as a minimum. Well worth a watch as much of it concerns things we rarely hear about in any coherent way!

Thank you for the link and shall take a look at it.

Chris
 

miami

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Joined
3 Oct 2015
Messages
2,916
Location
UK
Things that made me move towards leave
* Geldof
* An argument on here, I forget who from, about the rise of the right in europe

Things that made me move towards remain
* Farage and his poster
* £350 million
* Learning how the EU works, and how democratic it is
* Boris Johnson ordering his heavies to go and stop channel 4's broadcast
* The fact that very few people voting Brexit will be happy with the outcome, whatever it is

There may have been others.
 

backontrack

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Joined
2 Feb 2014
Messages
6,031
Location
The UK
My vote hasn't changed, I was and still am for remaining. But while I have been totally dismayed by the lacklustre and cynical remain campaign, the leave camp has utterly disgusted me with their thirties style xenophobic nationalism and deceit.

I agree with this comment wholeheartedly.

There is one side of the referendum that has been forgotten completely.

It's the elephant in the room. No; the elephant across the pond.

If we leave the EU then we will almost certainly become part of NAFTA. It'll escalate from there...we'll end up the USA's lapdog, the 51st state.

Scaremongering? Too far? Well, we're already 'controlled by unelected officials in another country'. Nothing will change. It's just that it'll be less democratic - and the controllers will have more nukes than us.
 
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