EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Bromley boy]

Yes, the Poles were awesome. Their achievements are hidden by the invasion of their country but they really deserve as much credit as any of the Allies for defeating fascism.

In addition to forming eight fighter squadrons in the RAF, there was also an astonishingly brave Polish organisation which dedicated itself to shielding and rescuing tens of thousands of Jews (the Zegota), they had a huge resistance effort, they captured the Enigma machine, they got very far along the track of decrypting it and shared their efforts with the British (essentially kickstarting the Bletchley Park effort), they saved many lives in London by disrupting German rocket production and sharing technology secrets they discovered with us, they supplied almost half of the external intelligence received by the precursor to MI6, their navy fought alongside ours, they invented the periscope to fit to our tanks, and much more.

I don't necessarily think it's the best way forward, but if we ever did design an immigration system around historic friendships, then Poland has to be in the top division.

Absolutely. I wish these facts were better known.

The Poles get a lot of undeserved stick in the U.K, especially from some of my fellow brexiteers!

 

[Howardh]

Source please.

You mis-understand. That wasn't a statement, just a question that concerns (at government level) about C02 emmissions seem to have gone off the radar - as has a lot of stuff - or at least hiden by all this Brexit stuff.

 

[dosxuk]

Looks like the Chequers Agreement has finally shuffled of this mortal coil after being layed to rest by the EU this afternoon.

 

[greyman42]

Absolutely. I wish these facts were better known.

The Poles get a lot of undeserved stick in the U.K, especially from some of my fellow brexiteers!

I agree. The Poles have integrated very well into the UK and generally are popular. I have worked with quite a number of them and have never come across a bad one yet.

 

[Howardh]

Looks like the Chequers Agreement has finally shuffled of this mortal coil after being layed to rest by the EU this afternoon.

No deal or remain? And on the grounds that there's not one jot of infrastructure in place to support a no-deal situation, other than to let anything and everything in and out unchecked, May can either go back to the country to end this farce (whichever side you are on, you have to agree it's farcical) or to leave office and call Rees-Mogg/Fox/Gove's bluff and put them in charge of Britain after Bidet.
I think they will end up leaving, but outside we will be more in than before, in other words having to accept anything the EU wants us to (even FoM) with the cost (divorce bill) but wihtout the say. The EU is just tooo big folks.

 

[muddythefish]

I think our EU partners have been astonishingly patient with May's delusional and at times hostile time-wasting this last two years.

Time to get real and acknowledge the price to be paid for the Conservatives' precious Brexit - and to let the people decide whether that price is simply too high for the largely fictitious opportunities Brexit allegedly offers.

 

[trash80]

This has been obvious for months, years. The EU stated it's position and have stuck to it, the British government have wasted so much time trying to pretend the EU would accept compromising their own red lines.

 

[muddythefish]

Looks like the Chequers Agreement has finally shuffled of this mortal coil after being layed to rest by the EU this afternoon.

Typical May. Like Nick Clegg and a few other cabinet members have famously said in the past (and Merkel), she sits across the table ignoring requests or questions put to here with a gormless half smile. I can imagine her meeting with Tusk, who's probably had enough of it.

Dear Maybot. The deal doesn't fly. Just because it has your name on it, it isn't acceptable. Not to the EU, North or southern Ireland specifically nor over half of the UK people if polls are believed. Nor the ERG. Best of luck with that rabid lot Theresa.

What should she do? Obvious. Give it back to us. We the people will advise her on the next step rather than wait till November. And then she can go for a long but secret frolic through a nearby wheat field for as long as she likes.

 

[Bromley boy]

What should she do? Obvious. Give it back to us. We the people will advise her on the next step rather than wait till November. And then she can go for a long but secret frolic through a nearby wheat field for as long as she likes.

We the people have already spoken. And we’ve asked to leave.

 

[muddythefish]

We the people have already spoken. And we’ve asked to leave.

We the people spoke in the 1970s to join.

 

[trash80]

What should May do now? To quote one of her predecessors...

In the name of God, go!

 

[muddythefish]

What should May do now? To quote one of her predecessors...

In the name of God, go!

Macron said today that the Leave victory in Britain’s 2016 EU referendum was “pushed by those who predicted easy solutions,” adding: “Those people are liars.”

They should erect a statue of Macron outside of Parliament with his words engraved beneath. Speak the truth and shame the devil.

 

[trash80]

Someone on twitter posted a video of a chap putting his todger into a plug socket and electrocuting himself, seems to be the perfect comment on Brexit

 

[fowler9]

Absolutely. I wish these facts were better known.

The Poles get a lot of undeserved stick in the U.K, especially from some of my fellow brexiteers!

Yeah, the highest "scoring" squadron in the Battle Of Britain was Polish 303 squadron, although I believe their highest scoring pilot was a Czech called Josef Frantisek. I believe he asked to stay with the Poles rather than move to a Czech squadron. There is a new film out called Hurricane about the squadron which I like the look of. My grandfather was always funny about foreigners but he lionised the Poles and the Ghurkas. One of my best mates is a Polish, never claimed benefits since he has been here and works his f**king arse off.

 

[Bromley boy]

We the people spoke in the 1970s to join.

No, the people asked to remain in the 1970s. They asked to leave in 2016.

Which part of that can’t you understand?

 

[Bromley boy]

Yeah, the highest "scoring" squadron in the Battle Of Britain was Polish 303 squadron, although I believe their highest scoring pilot was a Czech called Josef Frantisek. I believe he asked to stay with the Poles rather than move to a Czech squadron. There is a new film out called Hurricane about the squadron which I like the look of. My grandfather was always funny about foreigners but he lionised the Poles and the Ghurkas. One of my best mates is a Polish, never claimed benefits since he has been here and works his f**king arse off.

Quite right.

I’m anti free movement for various reasons but I certainly don’t buy into the idea that immigrants come to the U.K. in order to claim benefits. My experience is quite the opposite, as supported by the data.

Immigration is a good thing and a necessary thing for the U.K: I’d just like us to control it for ourselves.

 

[muddythefish]

No, the people asked to remain in the 1970s. They asked to leave in 2016.

Which part of that can’t you understand?

And they should be another vote on the final deal (if there is one).

Which part of that can't you understand or are you afraid of democracy and the inevitable defeat ?

 

[Bromley boy]

And they should be another vote on the final deal (if there is one).

Which part of that can't you understand or are you afraid of democracy and the inevitable defeat ?

“There should be another vote”, according to whom? You? We had a democratic vote on this matter in 2016.

How many votes do you want? Or do you just want to keep having votes until you get the answer you want?

It seems it isn’t me whose afraid of democracy.

 

[muddythefish]

“There should be another vote”, according to whom? You? We had a democratic vote on this matter in 2016.

How many votes do you want? Or do you just want to keep having votes until you get the answer you want?

It seems it isn’t me whose afraid of democracy.

Same old nonsense. Have you swallowed the Daily Mail ?

The 2016 vote was based on lies on both sides - even that must have penetrated the fugg inside your driver's cab.

Now all the facts have come to light it's entirely reasonable that the future direction of the country for decades should be put to a vote.

Why should 65 million people pay for the excruciating consequence of Conservative party infighting and incompetence?

 

[Bromley boy]

Same old nonsense. Have you swallowed the Daily Mail ?

The 2016 vote was based on lies on both sides - even that must have penetrated the fugg inside your driver's cab.

Now all the facts have come to light it's entirely reasonable that the future direction of the country for decades should be put to a vote.

Why should 65 million people pay for the excruciating consequence of Conservative party infighting and incompetence?

But no more facts have come to light than we were told about in the run up to the referendum in 2016.

Ok I’ll bite. Why do you keep make off topic disparaging references to the job I do? What’s wrong with being a train driver, exactly, and why does the job I do make my opinion any less valid?

What is it that you do for a living that makes you so superior?

You’d get a shock if you saw my cv, and I’d hazard a guess I earn more than you for less work in my current role, let alone what I did previously...

 

[muddythefish]

You’d get a shock if you saw my cv, and I’d hazard a guess I earn more than you for less work in my current role, let alone what I did previously...

Away from the deadbeats in the engine shed and back on subject, Chris Grayling (of all people) was trotted out to play defence for the government on Newsnight. Besides showing the complete paucity of talent in the Tory party, it reminded me of that stage in a war when one side starts sending 12-year-olds out to do battle shortly before it loses.

I'll give Failing Grayling this: he exerts a certain fascination because after making a mess of every govt department he has come into contact with, he obviously has nothing in the tank but, somehow, he persists.

Oh, what fun! I hope those Giacometti action figures, Deadwood Redwood, Peter Bonehead, Andrew Johnson and Seamus O'Rees-Mogg, get to stew good and long in the rancid juices from the decaying corpse of the political abomination they have spawned.

 

[Bromley boy]

Deadbeats in the engine shed indeed.

Some questions from this particular bloke in the engine shed to you:

1. What do you do for a living, and how much do you earn;
2. How many London properties do you own?
3. Where was your degree from, and what did you study?

Answer those honestly and I reckon we’ll soon find out who the deadbeat is.

Back on topic, what does your blessed leader Jezza think of the EU exactly? Newsflash - he’s more in favour of leaving than I am.

It seems the joke is entirely on you, chappy.

Ha. Ha. Ha.

 

[AlterEgo]

Well, yes.

I’m glad someone else sees that as a loss of sovereignty.

 

[NSEFAN]

I’m glad someone else sees that as a loss of sovereignty.

Indeed, in the same way that the multiple countries which make up the UK lose sovereignty to Westminster. I was merely trying to show that there may be advantages in doing this. Perhaps the desire to leave the EU, Scottish Independence and for devolution to the regions have a common motivator.

 

[dosxuk]

But no more facts have come to light than we were told about in the run up to the referendum in 2016.

Er, no, plenty have, including (but not exclusive to):
1/ Project Fear is actually Project Reality
2/ The Leave campaign has been proven to have broken the rules
3/ Our Government are even more incompetent than we realised and are incapable of negotisting an exit
4/ The EU have managed to stick together and negotiate as one block, so the concerns of German car workers and French wine sellers are less important than the Single Market, contrary to everything we were told
5/ Getting a deal is not going to be the easiest thing in tge world
6/ We will never get the fabled £350 million
7/ The Northern Ireland border (and Gibraltar, but that's being ignored for now) is a major hurdle, not a minor bump
8/ Those in power are more concerned about staying in power than doing what's right for country and it's population

Avoiding a second vote simply because we've already had one is the equivalent of hearing a fire alarm, deciding to leave one way, and ignoring the increased smoke, heat and flames. Surely if the evidence starts stacking up that this might not be the best idea after all, it's only proper to re-evaluate that decision?

And just for the record, had the referendum returned a remain, but the EU was now forcing us to join Schengen, join the Euro, scrap bendy bananas and hand over our armed forces to their control - you know, a change in circumstances / more clarity from the result - I'd be supporting calls for a new referendum because what we then had is not what anyone voted for.

With Chequers dead, there's now three options on the table: carry on and crash out, make the tories unelectable forever; put the option to crash out to parliament, lose and call a general election; put the option to crash out to parliament, lose and call a new referendum. None of those options look good for May's continued governence.

 

[yorksrob]

And just for the record, had the referendum returned a remain, but the EU was now forcing us to join Schengen, join the Euro, scrap bendy bananas and hand over our armed forces to their control - you know, a change in circumstances / more clarity from the result - I'd be supporting calls for a new referendum because what we then had is not what anyone voted for.

It's a pity our leaders didn't show such a commitment to democracy in relation to all of the material changes to our terms of membership between 1974 and 2016 !

 

[NSEFAN]

And just for the record, had the referendum returned a remain, but the EU was now forcing us to join Schengen, join the Euro, scrap bendy bananas and hand over our armed forces to their control - you know, a change in circumstances / more clarity from the result - I'd be supporting calls for a new referendum because what we then had is not what anyone voted for.

Indeed. I can't imagine anyone, remainer or Brexiteer, would be asking for the "hard remain" option of a United States of Europe.

 

[trash80]

Its all gone a bit Pete Tong hasn't it, what a surprise.

The problem was the referendum was flawed from the start, the question of leaving is a very complicated one. Once the decision was to think about leaving the government should have come up with at least 2 options (plus the status quo) FIRST, then do a referendum so people knew what they were voting for. Not invoke A50 then try and think about what to do with the sword of Damocles hanging over us.

But this is all so predictable. Personally i am pretty ambivalent about the EU but voted remain because i feared this madness that's enveloped the country if we voted to leave. Its a big and complicated process and we have political pygmies all over the shop.

So who is going to step forward and sort it all out? Unfortunately i don't see any contenders.

 

[Howardh]

We the people have already spoken. And we’ve asked to leave.

"Asked"
Heard the phrase "don't celebrate too early"?
If your boss gave you instructions that turned out to be impossible, you would expect a half-decent boss to change those instructions. They will eventually bottle out and come back to the country to get themselves out of this mess; so if it's a second referendum or general election I assume you will boycott it in protest?

 

[trash80]

Whats happened is the boss gave you impossible instructions then left to do another job.