EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[dosxuk]

I did come across this gem

Property downturn could reduce number of affordable homes built by 25%

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ld-halve-building-of-affordable-homes-savills

Which seems to throw a spanner in the idea mooted that stopping people from the eu coming here and causing house prices to fall will solve the housing issue.

It's this type of misinformation that the Leave campaign relies on - reduce an entire issue that affects everyone to a single resolution homes are too expensive for young people= no more foreigners so there's less people to buy homes so prices will go down - easy!

Except, when you look into the facts... E.g. if the demand on housing decreases, we won't continue to build as many houses, so prices won't come down. Secondly, the reduction in the labour force means the cost of building the homes is actually going to go up. And finally, with the reduction in the value of the pound, people's buying power is being reduced, so it's going to cost even more.

 

[Esker-pades]

Then there's the question many would ask which is "why should I move home to make way for immigrants?".

You don't have to do that. That isn't a thing.

 

[bramling]

... E.g. if the demand on housing decreases, we won't continue to build as many houses, so prices won't come down.

You can't say that. Price is a function of where demand and supply intersect, so prices would only fail to come down if the reduction in demand was matched by an equivalent reduction in supply. That's not a given at all.

...
Secondly, the reduction in the labour force means the cost of building the homes is actually going to go up. And finally, with the reduction in the value of the pound, people's buying power is being reduced, so it's going to cost even more.

Again, it all depends on what happens with demand versus supply. The massive inflation in house prices in the last decade or two I don't think has been caused by cost of construction.

 

[bramling]

Is it because of all those foreigners going to work every day. So you want to ban other people from working just so you get a seat on a train or don't have to queue at a junction for as long. That's rather selfless of you.

Why not work from home or look elsewhere where you don't have to travel so much if it's all to hard for you.

I don't work office hours and my train journey often gives me a carriage to myself, so it's certainly not all too hard for me!

 

[nidave]

You can't say that. Price is a function of where demand and supply intersect, so prices would only fail to come down if the reduction in demand was matched by an equivalent reduction in supply. That's not a given at all.



Again, it all depends on what happens with demand versus supply. The massive inflation in house prices in the last decade or two I don't think has been caused by cost of construction.

Why are you so angry at EU nationals - all your problems could be solved by you making changes to things without having to stop EU nationals being allowed to work if they want. You seen to want to fix your problems by making others change.

 

[nidave]

I don't work office hours and my train journey often gives me a carriage to myself, so it's certainly not all too hard for me!

So whats your problem - you said

You might find a morning peak road journey in parts of Hertfordshire a sobering experience!

So if it does not impact you - why are you so insistent that we stop eu migrants from working in the UK. I really don't understand your reasoning. Its all "Oh, Wont someone please think of the children" of the Express and DM

 

[bramling]

Plus government austerity and the unwillingness to borrow at historically cheap rates to improve the country.

For that read burden the taxpayer with shed loads of debt, and improve the country by building new council houses on every under-used space possible? No thanks!

Plus the unwillingness to actually pay for things through higher taxes like Dr's and teachers.

Like it or not, this isn't a government thing. People don't like paying tax, hence why governments prefer to keep taxes low to enhance their electoral prospects. If public opinion changes then perhaps this might change, but there doesn't seem to be much sign of that. If there is a general election any time soon it will be interesting to see how Corbyn's vote holds up - ICBW however I have a feeling people will hesitate, even as late as when they reach the privacy of the polling booth, when the thought comes to mind "if he gets in *I* will have to pay more tax".

 

[bramling]

. Its all "Oh, Wont someone please think of the children" of the Express and DM

Isn't a key part of the remain argument along the lines of "Oh, Wont someone please think of the children and their precious right to live or work elsewhere in the EU (which most won't take up)"?

 

[nidave]

For that read burden the taxpayer with shed loads of debt, and improve the country by building new council houses on every under-used space possible? No thanks!



Like it or not, this isn't a government thing. People don't like paying tax, hence why governments prefer to keep taxes low to enhance their electoral prospects. If public opinion changes then perhaps this might change, but there doesn't seem to be much sign of that. If there is a general election any time soon it will be interesting to see how Corbyn's vote holds up - ICBW however I have a feeling people will hesitate, even as late as when they reach the privacy of the polling booth, when the thought comes to mind "if he gets in *I* will have to pay more tax".

So its about you not willing to help others is it. You dont care about the 1000's of people who are using food banks or sitting in corridors or the fact that home help has been cut to the bone so much that people are expected to do a call within about 10min on average. You claim its all for future generations - yet so far all indications point to you being selfish and only looking out for yourself.

 

[bramling]

So its about you not willing to help others is it. You dont care about the 1000's of people who are using food banks or sitting in corridors or the fact that home help has been cut to the bone so much that people are expected to do a call within about 10min on average. You claim its all for future generations - yet so far all indications point to you being selfish and only looking out for yourself.

Facts of life I'm afraid.

What you and I may or may not think is irrelevant. Reality is the wider electorate tend to be motivated by how much tax they pay, and government are scared of upsetting the apple-cart on this. At my work the biggest source of bitching between people tends to be over money.

 

[nidave]

Facts of life I'm afraid.

What you and I may or may not think is irrelevant. Reality is the wider electorate tend to be motivated by how much tax they pay, and government are scared of upsetting the apple-cart on this. At my work the biggest source of bitching between people tends to be over money.

The government is capable of borrowing at what was the lowest rate for a generation - why didn't they do that then.

I repeat. Why are you so upset at EU nationals (working ones we have established) having the right to work in the UK (ignoring the right of UK Nationals to work in the EU)

 

[Esker-pades]

Facts of life I'm afraid.

Just to be clear, food banks are a fact of life? Is that what you're saying?

 

[AlterEgo]

because in Spain they would have private health insurance. In the UK they wouldn't need that.

Private health insurance is expensive and not something just anyone can afford. We aren’t talking about poor pensioners.

This is exactly my point.

 

[EM2]

Like it or not, this isn't a government thing. People don't like paying tax, hence why governments prefer to keep taxes low to enhance their electoral prospects.

British people, maybe. There are a number of countries (the Scandinavian nations spring to mind) where there is high taxation, and high quality of life, with a highly satisfied populace.

 

[dosxuk]

You can't say that. Price is a function of where demand and supply intersect, so prices would only fail to come down if the reduction in demand was matched by an equivalent reduction in supply. That's not a given at all.

Price only becomes a real element when either the supply or the demand of something is fixed and the other varies. We currently have a shortage of housing, not because we have no space for new homes, or because we don't have the ability to build new homes, but because the home builders are happy with the price they can change for a new home.

When prices drop in an over supply situation, all that's happening is the suppliers have to take the hit to get rid of something they don't want to keep hold of, it's not some natural law that reduces the prices. What you're suggesting is that home builders, given the choice of reducing their expenditure by building less homes but keeping the same profit levels will actually decide to slash their profits and keep on building homes, even if they don't know they'll sell them. Sorry, but that's clear-as-day nonsense!

Again, it all depends on what happens with demand versus supply. The massive inflation in house prices in the last decade or two I don't think has been caused by cost of construction.

No, a massive part of it was the reduction in home building caused by the 2008 financial crash where home builders decided to reduce the risk of building homes for less money than they wanted by reducing the number of homes they built.

 

[nidave]

Private health insurance is expensive and not something just anyone can afford. We aren’t talking about poor pensioners.

This is exactly my point.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-in-spain

If you are in receipt of a UK old age state pension, request an S1 form (previously E121) from the Overseas Healthcare Team on +44 191 218 1999. If you are in receipt of an exportable DWP benefit you can request an S1 form the office which pays your exportable benefit.

It is your responsibility to keep the Overseas Healthcare Team or office which pays your exportable DWP benefit up to date with any changes in circumstances which may affect your entitlement to an S1 (E121). When received, register the S1 form with your local INSS office, before you register with your local GP surgery and obtain a medical card..

As from the 1 July 2014, early retirees are no longer able to apply for a residual S1 form based on National Insurance contributions. The NHS website has more information about this change.

 

[pemma]

Plus government austerity and the unwillingness to borrow at historically cheap rates to improve the country.

Plus the unwillingness to actually pay for things through higher taxes like Dr's and teachers.

Plus George Osborne funding hand outs from money saved through austerity e.g. 50p tax rate cut to 45p, Help2Buy scheme, married tax allowance, increasing annual ISA allowance substantially plus introducing £1,000 tax free interest allowance etc.

 

[nidave]

Plus George Osborne funding hand outs from money saved through austerity e.g. 50p tax rate cut to 45p, Help2Buy scheme, married tax allowance, increasing annual ISA allowance substantially plus introducing £1,000 tax free interest allowance etc.

But it is all the fault of the EU and these nasty EU people coming over and working ergo we should not invest in any infrastructure.

 

[bramling]

But it is all the fault of the EU and these nasty EU people coming over and working ergo we should not invest in any infrastructure.

One way of funding infrastructure enhancements in the congested parts of the UK would be to even out the level of spending per head between the four constituent nations!

 

[Ken H]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-in-spain

that will entitle you to the same benefits as Spanish nationals get.
That may well fall short of what the NHS provides.
why do you think my father in law sold up in Spain and came back to the UK when he got ill? He was quite aware that for him, living in Spain would become unsustainable if he or his wife started to suffer from a serious health problem. And so it proved.

I have also used the french healthcare system when a child needed antibiotics. That involved a lot of paying and a complex system of claiming back.

many ex-pats travel to the UK and are still illegally registered with british GP's They see that GP and get their repeat prescriptions extended, and a relative posts the pills to them each month. probably because the Spanish health system doesnt cover their drug needs for free. This is fraud.

 

[nidave]

One way of funding infrastructure enhancements in the congested parts of the UK would be to even out the level of spending per head between the four constituent nations!

So now you don't want any people coming over here to work as it would involve spending money to improve things you want to deny infrastructure improvements for other areas as well?

 

[Howardh]

many ex-pats travel to the UK and are still illegally registered with british GP's They see that GP and get their repeat prescriptions extended, and a relative posts the pills to them each month. probably because the Spanish health system doesnt cover their drug needs for free. This is fraud.

My plans were to have two small properties, one here and one in Spain and use my UK property as base and make sure I stay here for over half the year, mainly for tax issues but also to have access to UK health facilities. No wwhether or not I would have to rent in Spain for just under 6 months or I could buy outright I never got to investigating, not because of Brexit but because mummy is still alive and very much kicking - but needs 100% care which I'm providing.
Basically I've no idea how complex issues might (or might not) become after Brexit - I'd actually like to know because if getting care in Spain (even if I'm in the UK 51% of the time) becomes too expensive to insure - after all I'll be over 60 - then retiring there becomes a no-no even if we can still get permits to live and support ourselves.

 

[nidave]

My plans were to have two small properties, one here and one in Spain and use my UK property as base and make sure I stay here for over half the year, mainly for tax issues but also to have access to UK health facilities. No wwhether or not I would have to rent in Spain for just under 6 months or I could buy outright I never got to investigating, not because of Brexit but because mummy is still alive and very much kicking - but needs 100% care which I'm providing.
Basically I've no idea how complex issues might (or might not) become after Brexit - I'd actually like to know because if getting care in Spain (even if I'm in the UK 51% of the time) becomes too expensive to insure - after all I'll be over 60 - then retiring there becomes a no-no even if we can still get permits to live and support ourselves.

If we are loosing freedom of movement as "brexit means brexit" then I would imaging that you will be restricted to a 3 month visa every year - basically an extended holiday.

 

[bramling]

So now you don't want any people coming over here to work as it would involve spending money to improve things you want to deny infrastructure improvements for other areas as well?

Actually it's something I'd like to see happen anyway.

 

[nidave]

Actually it's something I'd like to see happen anyway.

You have backtracked on every argument and and have basically resorted to "we don't want people coming over for no other reason other than they are not from the UK" do you not think that's a little bit selfish. (I wont mention the R word)

 

[bramling]

You have backtracked on every argument and and have basically resorted to "we don't want people coming over for no other reason other than they are not from the UK" do you not think that's a little bit selfish. (I wont mention the R word)

I haven’t backtracked on anything. I’m against freedom of movement, and have been all along, as it contributes to population growth which is something I would like to reduce the rate of. Being unpursuaded is not backtracking.

 

[nidave]

I haven’t backtracked on anything. I’m against freedom of movement, and have been all along, as it contributes to population growth which is something I would like to reduce the rate of. Being unpursuaded is not backtracking.

You cant give a reason why you don't want it. Every reason you have given you have contradicted yourself. Apart from the fact they are from "over there" and it somehow upsets you yet it has no real impact on you.

 

[fowler9]

We were talking about people who specifically retire abroad.

The people I was speaking about are actually retired in Spain .

 

[fowler9]

I haven’t backtracked on anything. I’m against freedom of movement, and have been all along, as it contributes to population growth which is something I would like to reduce the rate of. Being unpursuaded is not backtracking.

Having sex increases population growth. Poor English people are keen on it as well. The ones from the EU tend to put more back in to the pot.

 

[EM2]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46481643

The European Court of Justice (ECJ) has ruled that the UK can cancel Brexit without the permission of the other 27 EU members.

The judges ruled that this could be done without altering the terms of Britain's membership.

A group of anti-Brexit politicians and campaigners argued that the UK should be able to unilaterally halt the Brexit process if it wants to do so.

But their case was opposed by the UK government and the EU itself.

A senior ECJ official - the advocate general - said last week he agreed the UK should be able to change its mind about leaving. His opinion was not legally binding, but the court tends to follow his advice in the majority of cases.

A judgment from the ECJ that recognises the sovereignty of member States. Who'd have thought it, eh?