EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Mag_seven]

I'm going to predict that the response will be "it's nothing to do with Brexit".

Indeed - whats going to happen now is that the usual suspects who told us that predictions of job losses as a result of Brexit were all "project fear" will now claim that the actual job losses as result of Brexit are "nothing to do with Brexit". They will claim that they know more about the reasons behind these closures that the companies actually making the closures.

Had we stayed in the EU, I'm sure the plant will have remained. We'll just have to see.

They are moving production to Japan which has just signed a free trade agreement with, guess who, the EU.

Well done everyone.

 

[Howardh]

Confirmed on the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47282603 (Honda set to close Swindon car plant)

Brexit is understood to be a factor in the decision, with the carmaker concerned about the imposition of new tariffs after the UK leaves the EU.​

Any of our resident Brexiteers happy with this?

We're slowly, no make that quickly, being strangled to death. Swindon was a leave area, so are they pleased with their vote now?

Stop This Nonsense. We'll lose everything and gain nothing. It's madness, total cultism.

 

[eotw]

Swindon was a leave area, so are they pleased with their vote now?

Until last year I worked in Swindon and was stunned when they voted leave. Both BMW and Honda will leave. I don't know how many people BMW employ but Honda employ over 3,000 directly. How many indirectly?

 

[Groningen]

Those workers do maybe not life in Swindon itself.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Relying on foreign investors was never going to restore our motor industry. Unfortunately, I am inclined to doubt if anything can.

 

[Ianno87]

Indeed - whats going to happen now is that the usual suspects who told us that predictions of job losses as a result of Brexit were all "project fear" will now claim that the actual job losses as result of Brexit are "nothing to do with Brexit". They will claim that they know more about the reasons behind these closures that the companies actually making the closures.



.

What's particularly laughable is how when companies specifically mention Brexit as part of their reasoning and it is *still* dismissed as 'Project Fear'.

The fanciful idea that somehow it is in a businesses interest to make a concious long term change to its business and arbitrarily blame it on Brexit for no reason whatsover other than some strange political agenda.

 

[dgl]

[insert name of company here] unfortunately due to Brexit we are closing our UK sites and moving to elsewhere in the EU

[brexiteer] it's all project fear and they were going to leave anyway

I somehow think that a company that cites Brexit as a reason for making certain business decisions knows a fair bit more abut what issues are impacting them than some random brexiteer, that Brexit really is the reason (I mean it's far cheaper for not just the business but for the end consumer to but products which do not have import fees attached) and it's not just some lame excuse.

Brexiteers are starting to look more and more like "flat earthers" every day, if only May had the balls to stick up to people like the ERG, realise Brexit is a massive mistake and get article 50 withdrawn ASAP.

 

[HH]

It's all gone quiet over there...

 

[nidave]

Honda: @RobertBuckland & I have already spoken to the Business Secretary & Honda. They are clear this is based on global trends and not Brexit as all European market production will consolidate in Japan in 2021.

https://twitter.com/JustinTomlinson/status/1097507582820995072?s=19

MP who said Honda would never leave now says its not Brexit. Considering they are keeping the other eu factory (Belgium I believe) open. Of course it's nothing to do with brexit or the fta the eu has signed with happen. The dates and timing are all purely a coincidence.

He is also lying as Honda have said they would move due to brexit but he dismissed it as project fear.

HONDA bosses are warning of ‘unprecedented’ disruption to its supply chain if Britain leaves the customs union after Brexit.

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk...ears-of-unprecedented-disruption-from-brexit/

 

[JamesT]

https://twitter.com/JustinTomlinson/status/1097507582820995072?s=19

MP who said Honda would never leave now says its not Brexit. Considering they are keeping the other eu factory (Belgium I believe) open. Of course it's nothing to do with brexit or the fta the eu has signed with happen. The dates and timing are all purely a coincidence.

He is also lying as Honda have said they would move due to brexit but he dismissed it as project fear.


https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk...ears-of-unprecedented-disruption-from-brexit/

The 'factory' in Belgium appears to be a minor site for doing parts. http://www.environment.honda-eu.com/greenfactory/aalst.htm
A rather different scale from a major plant for one of their models.

 

[Howardh]

https://twitter.com/JustinTomlinson/status/1097507582820995072?s=19

MP who said Honda would never leave now says its not Brexit. Considering they are keeping the other eu factory (Belgium I believe) open. Of course it's nothing to do with brexit or the fta the eu has signed with happen. The dates and timing are all purely a coincidence.

He is also lying as Honda have said they would move due to brexit but he dismissed it as project fear.

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk...ears-of-unprecedented-disruption-from-brexit/

On Sky this morning the union rep insisted it was Brexit related, citing that 150 lorries per day arrive from the EU and tariffs/hold-ups would affect Honda quite severely. Who do you believe; a CEO who knows blaming Brexit would turn 52% of the country (ie the market) against him, or the union rep on the ground? Difficult one, that....

 

[Howardh]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/feb/18/toto-wolff-no-deal-brexit-nightmare-f1-teams-uk

Toto Wolff has issued a strong warning of the dangers facing Formula One and the sport’s place in the UK because of Brexit, describing it as the “mother of all messes”.

So no-deal could mean the F1 teams (and associated jobs) disappearing elsewhere??

 

[dgl]

But... But..., It's fake news, the liberal media, BBC, Europe, China Etc....
No dear these are facts, the primary fact being that Brexit will leave us, poorer, with less employment, seen as jokes across the world and as a severely weakened nation. Plus any company that relies of no customs EU access will leave (as Honda are doing), and most rich Brexiteers will leave anyway as even they know what a s*** show Britain will be after Brexit (after milking Britain for all it's worth).

We will have to accept lower H&S, medical, food Etc.. standards to get (pretty crap) trade deals and American companies will take all they can get for the lowest price possible, the NHS will be no more (as we will not be able to fund it) and we will end up with US priced healthcare (this being the country that allows TV adverts for PRESCRIPTION! drugs).

But hey ho, sovereignty, taking back control, Etc. are a price worth paying for aren't they? Thought not.

 

[furnessvale]

On Sky this morning the union rep insisted it was Brexit related, citing that 150 lorries per day arrive from the EU and tariffs/hold-ups would affect Honda quite severely. Who do you believe; a CEO who knows blaming Brexit would turn 52% of the country (ie the market) against him, or the union rep on the ground? Difficult one, that....

So you have now reached the stage of believing CEOs when they blame Brexit, but not believing them when they don't.

Unbelievable!

 

[t_star2001uk]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47287386

Honda Europe VP states "This is not a Brexit-related issue for us, it's being made on the global-related changes I've spoken about."

"We've always seen Brexit as something we'll get through, but these changes globally are something we will have to respond to. We deeply regret the impact it will have on the Swindon community."

 

[superkev]

Perhaps Mogg, Farage and other Brexit millionaires should be made to visit the closing factories to explain what a good thing leaving the eu is. I suppose they will say we fought 2 world wars on principle when we didn't need to join in. Not much comfort to those on the dole.
I suspect whether Brexit hard or soft or not at all the damage is already done. Like the rich Brexiteers Im moving my limited assets elesware prob into krugorands, bitcoins or similar.
K

 

[greyman42]

They are moving production to Japan which has just signed a free trade agreement with, guess who, the EU.

Their factory in Japan is running well under capacity so it may make sense to move production back to Japan.

 

[Howardh]

So you have now reached the stage of believing CEOs when they blame Brexit, but not believing them when they don't.

Unbelievable!

It's only the same as Brexiters not believing experts when they say something they don't want to hear, but believe them when they do. My money's on the CEO not wanting to upset his Brexit-supporting buyers, I reckon the union rep's nailed it; but let's face it, why are they moving to Japan which has got a free-trade deal with the EU when the UK hasn't?

Anyhow the good news generally is that unemployment's down; so that makes a mockery of leaving the EU to free up jobs. So now what are we leaving for?

 

[HLE]

The UK hasn't because it can't strike one by itself ....yet.

So Honda are shutting their Swindon plant in 2 years time. If it was down to brexit they'd shut sooner - they have the financial clout to do so.
The diesel scandal is partly to blame, the same with JLR. Car factories closing is nothing new in this country. Especially round the midlands - almost nothing now compared to 20 years ago.

Be interesting to see the sales figures for Honda's over the last 5-10 years, in the UK. Wouldn't be surprised if they've gone down, there does seem to be less of them on the roads these days. Companies like Suzuki and Kia have widened their range and sell far more cars over here now than 10 years ago - they've no doubt taken some of their market share.

On brexit, what is also to blame is Anna Soubry, Yvette Cooper and all the rest of them trying to fustrate and delay brexit. This uncertainty is biting on both sides of the channel and a big cause of it is our delightful MP's playing games. Same with people's vote. I'll include the ERG in that too, they aren't much better. The time to argue the pro's and con's of being in or out of the EU was before June 2016, not after.

That's a drawback to democracy - everyone can have their opinion, and repeat it as many time as they wish. There's good arguments on both sides, like there was pre-2016. I do wish people would take their rose tinted specs off and remember that it wasn't a bed of roses before we voted to leave. Factories, industries still closed down. Jobs were lost. Nothing new.

Just my thoughts on this bit of news.

 

[Howardh]

The UK hasn't because it can't strike one by itself ....yet.

So Honda are shutting their Swindon plant in 2 years time. If it was down to brexit they'd shut sooner - they have the financial clout to do so.
The diesel scandal is partly to blame, the same with JLR. Car factories closing is nothing new in this country. Especially round the midlands - almost nothing now compared to 20 years ago.

Be interesting to see the sales figures for Honda's over the last 5-10 years, in the UK. Wouldn't be surprised if they've gone down, there does seem to be less of them on the roads these days. Companies like Suzuki and Kia have widened their range and sell far more cars over here now than 10 years ago - they've no doubt taken some of their market share.

On brexit, what is also to blame is Anna Soubry, Yvette Cooper and all the rest of them trying to fustrate and delay brexit. This uncertainty is biting on both sides of the channel and a big cause of it is our delightful MP's playing games. Same with people's vote. I'll include the ERG in that too, they aren't much better. The time to argue the pro's and con's of being in or out of the EU was before June 2016, not after.

That's a drawback to democracy - everyone can have their opinion, and repeat it as many time as they wish. There's good arguments on both sides, like there was pre-2016

Just my thoughts on this bit of news.

Who's trying to "delay Brexit"? If it weren't for the ERG the withdrawl bill including the Norway+ option thus solving the Irish/UK border issue could have been signed, sealed and delivered months and months ago. The fault lies purely with the ERG and May's red lines to keep them happy, all Soubry and Co. are trying to do is keep Britain away from the hard Brexit the others want - thus saving jobs, livelihoods, keeping some of our freedoms that we are losing and hoping the UK comes out of all this relatively unscathed.

Just remember which politicians would care about Britain when there are European tax avoidance laws coming into force on April 1 I believe...how very convenient that we might be out of their grasp by then.

We've all been had, every one of us (apart from the filthy rich who don't want the EU snooping around - and Monaco is fairly easy to reach if they do....)

 

[HLE]

All Soubry, cooper and co. want is a second referendum. They're deliberately trying to delay brexit so this becomes more likely. Personally I think they just want to be seen in the future as the ones who stopped brexit. Which freedoms are we losing?

Yep, I've said the ERG aren't much better. They're after a complete break which is just gambling on it paying off. I'm not a fan of their approach. Get the deal agreed and let's move on.

Tax avoidance is nothing new. How many of our elite register companies in Malta and other countries to avoid tax? It's been going on for years and believe me they'll be ways around the EU legislation coming into force. It's why tax advisers do just that - the days of the humble accountant advising the super rich are long gone.

I agree with the point about being 'had'. Lies were told on both sides before and after the referendum.

But just like a lot of things, this is being overhyped.

 

[Howardh]

All Soubry, cooper and co. want is a second referendum. They're deliberately trying to delay brexit so this becomes more likely. Personally I think they just want to be seen in the future as the ones who stopped brexit. Which freedoms are we losing?

Yep, I've said the ERG aren't much better. They're after a complete break which is just gambling on it paying off. I'm not a fan of their approach. Get the deal agreed and let's move on.

Tax avoidance is nothing new. How many of our elite register companies in Malta and other countries to avoid tax? It's been going on for years and believe me they'll be ways around the EU legislation coming into force. It's why tax advisers do just that - the days of the humble accountant advising the super rich are long gone.

I agree with the point about being 'had'. Lies were told on both sides before and after the referendum.

But just like a lot of things, this is being overhyped.

Has it actually dropped that if we have a second referendum and Brexit is voted down then that will be the democratic will of the people? If you don't want that then you are denying the people democracy in light of further knowledge. Also those not wanting it are scared of losing, if the will of the people was the same then what's to lose?!!
Like the MOT test, it's inly valid on the day it was taken. And should we vote to remain, we can always vote again at some future point should new circumstances dictate.
Anyhow I'm against another vote. We should just scrap Brexit. Ain't worth doing.

 

[Basher]

The UK hasn't because it can't strike one by itself ....yet.

So Honda are shutting their Swindon plant in 2 years time. If it was down to brexit they'd shut sooner - they have the financial clout to do so.
The diesel scandal is partly to blame, the same with JLR. Car factories closing is nothing new in this country. Especially round the midlands - almost nothing now compared to 20 years ago.

Be interesting to see the sales figures for Honda's over the last 5-10 years, in the UK. Wouldn't be surprised if they've gone down, there does seem to be less of them on the roads these days. Companies like Suzuki and Kia have widened their range and sell far more cars over here now than 10 years ago - they've no doubt taken some of their market share.

On brexit, what is also to blame is Anna Soubry, Yvette Cooper and all the rest of them trying to fustrate and delay brexit. This uncertainty is biting on both sides of the channel and a big cause of it is our delightful MP's playing games. Same with people's vote. I'll include the ERG in that too, they aren't much better. The time to argue the pro's and con's of being in or out of the EU was before June 2016, not after.

That's a drawback to democracy - everyone can have their opinion, and repeat it as many time as they wish. There's good arguments on both sides, like there was pre-2016. I do wish people would take their rose tinted specs off and remember that it wasn't a bed of roses before we voted to leave. Factories, industries still closed down. Jobs were lost. Nothing new.

Just my thoughts on this bit of news.

Did a Honda count today as we travelled on the A1M, in approximately 1 hour did not see one Honda, and only saw 3 on the secondary roads. Honda sales in the UK have dropped over the years.

 

[HLE]

No it goes against the democratic decision taken by the people a few years ago. The same crap will be spouted by both sides, and a decision made. Given all that's happened over the last couple of years, I would vote leave - 2 years ago I was borderline before I voted. One argument that makes me laugh, is those that say it should have never been put to the public vote.....then go on to say there should be another referendum.

It's like the Scottish independence referendum number 2 that Sturgeon keeps pushing for. Things have happened since the vote, which strengthen her argument. On a smaller scale than brexit but the principle remains the same. Always be those that call for another vote.

 

[HLE]

Did a Honda count today as we travelled on the A1M, in approximately 1 hour did not see one Honda, and only saw 3 on the secondary roads. Honda sales in the UK have dropped over the years.

Not just me then.
Gave it a Google earlier - their sales have dropped off not just in the UK but in Europe in general.

 

[Howardh]

No it goes against the democratic decision taken by the people a few years ago. .

So we should then only have one general election, no good having another a few years later as that goes against the democratic will of the people. R-i-g-h-t. And don't forget, your Glorious Nigel Farage said clearly - on the night of the election, had they lost it was "unfinished business".

In reality what should have happened is we had the EU vote, and then a little while after, once all the options had been explored, had another on what type of Brexit the voters wanted, and go for that. Even I would be happy with that, as it gives the ignored 48% (16 million is an awful lot of people to ignore) a say in the future. But it's the fact we've been ignored and dismissed that has left Brexit in the total shambles it is.

 

[Howardh]

Did a Honda count today as we travelled on the A1M, in approximately 1 hour did not see one Honda, and only saw 3 on the secondary roads. Honda sales in the UK have dropped over the years.

Must admit I associate Honda more with motorbikes rather than cars!

 

[mmh]

We're slowly, no make that quickly, being strangled to death. Swindon was a leave area, so are they pleased with their vote now?

Stop This Nonsense. We'll lose everything and gain nothing. It's madness, total cultism.

Nowhere was a "leave area", it was a national poll, and the only reason there are any figures by region (which don't equate to parliamentary constituencies) is the count was done, quite practiably, by local authorities with the ability and experience to do it.

In hindsight all the ballot boxes should've been taken to Manchester Town Hall and counted there.

 

[HH]

We don't need those foreign cars anyway. Let's go back to the days of Pony & Trap. Well apart from Farage; he'll have a German car.

 

[HLE]

So we should then only have one general election, no good having another a few years later as that goes against the democratic will of the people. R-i-g-h-t. And don't forget, your Glorious Nigel Farage said clearly - on the night of the election, had they lost it was "unfinished business".

In reality what should have happened is we had the EU vote, and then a little while after, once all the options had been explored, had another on what type of Brexit the voters wanted, and go for that. Even I would be happy with that, as it gives the ignored 48% (16 million is an awful lot of people to ignore) a say in the future. But it's the fact we've been ignored and dismissed that has left Brexit in the total shambles it is.

A general election is a different thing to a referendum which was about a single issue. Completely different.

Take the last general election, I would've been in the 'ignored' percentage. Do we ask the Tories to put down several policies, (say A,B,C) and then get the public to vote on it? Like everyone else I voted and in the end my choice of party lost.
That's democracy.

Quite how you think the 48% minority have been ignored is beyond me. You had your vote and lost.
There's been a significant amount of airtime and commons time given to those who want to remain & have a second vote. Hardly ignored.