EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ainsworth74, 23 Jun 2016.

  1. 404250

    404250 Member

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    UKIP were a one policy party and got what they campaigned for, an EU referendum. After leave won they should have folded the party. There will be space for a new party for disalusioned leave voters if there's a long Brexit delay, which is looking increasingly likely.
    Arguing about if UKIP had a lot of support or not by using two completely different forms of measurement (MPs/MEPs vs %) is a waste of time.
     
  2. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    The 2016 crystal ball has proved just as inaccurate in a much shorter period. If we can re-visit the 1975 referendum we can re-visit 2016.
     
  3. nidave

    nidave Member

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    I suspect that's due to the fact he makes a fool of himself and makes entertaining TV as people watch to see the rubbish he comes out with.

    The only way Ukip will ever get in Westminster is if fptp is scrapped
     
  4. NSEFAN

    NSEFAN Established Member

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    Scrapping FPTP would be no bad thing. Applying day-to-day parliamentary politics over this issue has only worsened the division it causes. A solution on Brexit requires compromise and concensus, neither of which are likely to happen in a political system where the one opposition party is expected to be constantly adversarial and undermining the ruling party as a matter of course. It has taken 2 years for Labour and Conservative to even consider talking to one another, when really it should have been this way from the start of the process.
     
  5. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Established Member

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    Or by infiltrating and taking over the Tory Party - and judging from the troubles that Dominic Grieve and Nick Boles have faced, it seems possible that that is what is actually happening in places.
     
  6. Senex

    Senex Established Member

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    And it seems that the other 27 haven't really understood that this is how the British system works. They seem to think they reached a deal with Britain, whereas in fact all they have is a deal with the party of government, and in this case perhaps not even that, but just a deal negotiated with May in the interests of a portion of her own part only.
     
  7. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    Now there was a vote with a 1 majority that there may be not a No Deal. Was there not already a vote about that and that the voting was otherwise. The UK is surely not in a hurry to leave the EU. Many companies/countries have invested large amount of money to cope with the Brexit. And than maybe the chance it will come to that. Please leave: than rather have the chaos and see where the ship runs to the ground (dutch expression). How difficult is it to leave? Extension of months or even years? You had nearly 3 years!
     
    Last edited: 4 Apr 2019
  8. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    And it will take at least another two. Wonder how long it will take for a referendum result to become invalid due to the length of time passed? (!!). We could well have had two general elections by the time we fully leave (if ever).
    Meanwhile hoping the two worst party leaders of all time can scramble up some kind of deal....or maybe that was the plan all along, let parliament exhaust itself and then leave us with a fluffy-soft Brexit which the leaders can absolve themselves of all blame "it's parliament that ruined it, don't blame us matey".
     
  9. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    I believe 40 or so years is the current standard! :)
     
  10. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    I am not sure whether someone already said that the talks between May and Corbyn led to nothing at this moment in time. They remain however talking in the future.
     
  11. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Which is ironic as everyone was worried about Momentum entryism of the Labour Party!
     
  12. Arglwydd Golau

    Arglwydd Golau Established Member

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    Everyone? The usual media outlets were constantly bleating about it, not sure that constitutes 'everyone'! Never saw it in my area...however I realise this is the wrong thread for this discussion!
     
  13. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    The same could apply in other countries if the government was foolish enough to take a negotiating line that didn't have the support of the legislature. We aren't used to that in Britain because the systems normally ensures that a government with a decent majority can get away with almost anything. This government doesn't have a majority and even if it did the divisions within parties would probably have led to a similar situation.

    There have been several votes by large majorities against No Deal but they have been "indicative" so the government is free to ignore them. This one, if passed by the House of Lords, will have legal force. However it only compels the PM to ask for an extension - the EU has to grant one and probably won't unless there is a clear plan to resolve the situation. It could only fully rule out a no-deal if it also compelled the government to revoke Article 50 if there was no deal by the last day. An indicative vote for that solution fell well short of a majority last week.
     
  14. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Leaks again from the House of Commons. The roof's caved in.

    So, no change there, then. As it happens today's action is in the Lords and apparently they will stay awake all night to get the Bill's through. Make a change for that lot, staying awake. They only rouse when someone mutters "expenses".
     
  15. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    Perfect metaphor for Brexit:
    Nothing is done until it is too late, and then they all leave when it goes wrong.
     
  16. takno

    takno Established Member

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    I'm not especially keen on having an unelected second chamber, but that's a pretty cheap shot. Just because the media don't take a lot of notice of them, and they can ultimately be overruled by the commons, doesn't mean that they don't work hard on suggesting and pushing for improvements in legislation. Second chambers, are there to act as a moderating force, and it's a job they do pretty well.
     
  17. nlogax

    nlogax Established Member

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    Prediction is Royal assent for the bill by Monday evening.
     
  18. Struner

    Struner Member

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    The second biggest "parliament" after China's "people's congress". With jezusfreaks added.
     
  19. Please Explain

    Please Explain Member

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    Yes, they all do a fine job indeed and spend the tax payers money so well don't they, this fine gentleman in particular set a wonderful example:


    *I do NOT endorse this scumbag "newspaper" by the way...
     

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  20. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I feel that we're starting to wander off the topic slightly here. Reform of the House of Lords is an interesting and worthy topic but better suited to a new thread. If anyone wishes to start such a thread please feel free to do so but otherwise let's return to the never ending delight of Brexit.
     
  21. Cowley

    Cowley Established Member

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    Amen to that. :lol:
     
  22. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    And on Tuesday the EU to turn around and either say "No" or "you can have an extension for X months however you need to have elections"
     
  23. Giugiaro

    Giugiaro Member

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    I wonder which country will have the ***** to vote NO against the extension.
     
  24. dosxuk

    dosxuk Member

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    France

    They've been quite clear that they don't want this dragging on and will robustly put forward that no extension should be forecoming.
     
  25. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Off-thread I know, but it's increasingly depressing to know that had Remain won in 2016, we'd have forgotten about it by the Monday morning and would have just got on with our lives. Brexit just feels like a permanent headche now (which won't go away even after Brexit day - if it happens - as there'll be the future relationship to discuss until the cows come home).

    My hope is for it to be conditional on the confirmatory referendum to check people still want to go ahead with this shambles, know they know the full terms. I'm getting the impression that EU leaders are stsrting to recognise the general increase in hostility towards Brexit in the UK
     
  26. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    A part of me just wishes we had no-deal and then the Brexiters up top had to answer to it all - except they wouldn't "it's all the EU's fault boo hoo, they wouldn't play with us". And the public would believe them, which is even worse. It's a cult where no-one can see any wrong, and they follow their leaders blindly. Wouldn't mind if I could see one way I'd be better off. Here are the details;
    60, full time carer on carer's allowance (about £65/wk), receiving moderate first pension, enjoy holidays in Spain and the Low Countries when cover allows, expecting state pension of around £8.5k @66.
    How's Brexit gonna make my life better???
     
  27. 404250

    404250 Member

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    It's not, but probably won't make it worse either.
     
  28. fowler9

    fowler9 Established Member

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    I've seen plenty of Brexiteers behaving completely as expected saying it is the Remainers fault for not getting behind Brexit despite Brexit apparently being what the majority want. Others blaming the EU.
     
  29. Cowley

    Cowley Established Member

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    I wonder how much this farce has cost other nearby European countries in preparation, for instance France/Holland etc that share ferry and tunnel routes with us?
    It feels like they’ve been pretty patient with us so far. But there must be an enormous amount of frustration simmering quietly away...
     
  30. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    If the result was the other way round (52% for remain) then the likes of UKIP will still be trying to get another vote as it is 'unfinished business'.

    The only time it might have died a death if the result was something like 65/35+
     

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