• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

Status
Not open for further replies.

EM2

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
7,523
Location
The home of the concrete cow
I think they are referring to those in positions of power and influence, e.g. MP’s, others in high office, or formerly in high office (e.g. Blair) and certain business leaders, when they say “elite”. Not the ordinary voters.
Because that doesn't apply to Farage, Johnson, Gove, Dyson etc.?
Just on this thread, I've been told that I'm 'out of touch' when it comes to immigration, even though I lived in a London borough that was 29% white British.
'Latte-drinking left-wing intelligentsia' was another description used.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Groningen

Established Member
Joined
14 Jan 2015
Messages
2,866
Somewhere i see that 25 % will vote on UKIP and the Brexit party. But it is only a poll. With added Tories about 38,5 %, but with polls as we say in the Netherlands it is wet finger work.
 

Gooner18

Member
Joined
24 Oct 2018
Messages
539
I am fuming with all the MP’s countries is on the verge of its biggest crisis in god knows how long , so what do they do , have a Easter break.
They all need to go !
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,542
Location
Redcar
I am fuming with all the MP’s countries is on the verge of its biggest crisis in god knows how long , so what do they do , have a Easter break.
They all need to go !

I'm not so sure. The cliff edge has moved back to October so taking a few weeks to regroup and recuperate might not actually be a bad idea. I'd rather these sorts of decisions are being made by people who aren't coping on three hours sleep and eighteen gallons of coffee...
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,688
Location
Devon
I'm not so sure. The cliff edge has moved back to October so taking a few weeks to regroup and recuperate might not actually be a bad idea. I'd rather these sorts of decisions are being made by people who aren't coping on three hours sleep and eighteen gallons of coffee...
I agree.
No matter how much disdain we feel for our politicians at times, they’ve had some very long days recently - fatigue isn’t conducive for making long term rational decisions.
 

DynamicSpirit

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2012
Messages
8,027
Location
SE London
I am fuming with all the MP’s countries is on the verge of its biggest crisis in god knows how long , so what do they do , have a Easter break.
They all need to go !

Oh come on!

  1. The so-called 'Easter break' isn't really much of a break at all. To a large extent, it's a time when MPs don't sit in Parliament and therefore spend more time on constituency business - helping constituents etc.
  2. This 'crisis' has been ongoing for about 4 months now. It's not something that has suddenly turned up overnight. Human beings do actually need rests in order to function properly. How would you like it if you were expected to forego all your holidays for an extended period, and it was suggested that you should be sacked if you weren't willing to do that. I bet you'd be up in arms if that happened to you. So why are you demanding that MPs are treated in that way? MPs are after all human beings, just like you and me.
  3. Even if the Easter recession was cancelled, what do you expect MPs do do in that time? Right now, work on Brexit is focused on the negotiations between the Government and Labour. And until that's completed, there's not much that MPs can do.
  4. As others have hinted at, if you make people work continuously without a break, the result is inevitably tired people, low productivity, and bad decisions. Is that really what you want?
  5. There are loads of things that are far more important than whether MPs get a bit of time back in their constituencies. Climate change. Poverty. The Health Service. Various wars going on around the World. And so on. Do you really have nothing more important to start fuming about than whether a (in global terms) tiny number of people get a few days off or not?
 

fowler9

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2013
Messages
8,367
Location
Liverpool
Oh come on!

  1. The so-called 'Easter break' isn't really much of a break at all. To a large extent, it's a time when MPs don't sit in Parliament and therefore spend more time on constituency business - helping constituents etc.
  2. This 'crisis' has been ongoing for about 4 months now. It's not something that has suddenly turned up overnight. Human beings do actually need rests in order to function properly. How would you like it if you were expected to forego all your holidays for an extended period, and it was suggested that you should be sacked if you weren't willing to do that. I bet you'd be up in arms if that happened to you. So why are you demanding that MPs are treated in that way? MPs are after all human beings, just like you and me.
  3. Even if the Easter recession was cancelled, what do you expect MPs do do in that time? Right now, work on Brexit is focused on the negotiations between the Government and Labour. And until that's completed, there's not much that MPs can do.
  4. As others have hinted at, if you make people work continuously without a break, the result is inevitably tired people, low productivity, and bad decisions. Is that really what you want?
  5. There are loads of things that are far more important than whether MPs get a bit of time back in their constituencies. Climate change. Poverty. The Health Service. Various wars going on around the World. And so on. Do you really have nothing more important to start fuming about than whether a (in global terms) tiny number of people get a few days off or not?
I admire your optimism. I thought the crisis had been going on three years not four months .
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
As others have hinted at, if you make people work continuously without a break, the result is inevitably tired people, low productivity, and bad decisions. Is that really what you want?
That's what some Brexit-minded politicians probably want, trying to compete with Europe by means of deregulation.
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
14,191
Location
St Albans
That's what some Brexit-minded politicians probably want, trying to compete with Europe by means of deregulation.
- and we already have one of the lowest workforce productivity figures of the industrialised countries in the EU anyway. Maybe all these working-hour derogations from the EU norm are making that worse.
 

Esker-pades

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2015
Messages
3,766
Location
Beds, Bucks, or somewhere else
- and we already have one of the lowest workforce productivity figures of the industrialised countries in the EU anyway. Maybe all these working-hour derogations from the EU norm are making that worse.
We have the loosest workers rights in the EU. Employers can fire people much more easily than in other EU member states. Pointing to EU-wide law when making comparisons within the EU is inappropriate.
 

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,674
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
- and we already have one of the lowest workforce productivity figures of the industrialised countries in the EU anyway. Maybe all these working-hour derogations from the EU norm are making that worse.

I don't have the latest figures, but certainly in 2016 the UK had the highest average working week. So that doesn't reflect well if our productivity is the lowest of the industrialised EU countries. Methinks the problem lies beyond any EU directives, but the EU certainly has been used as a handy scapegoat for all manner of problems. The only trouble is when we leave it will rapidly lose it's scapegoat status, I wonder who will get the blame next?

On average, a full-time employee in the EU works 40.3 hours per week in a usual working week. Men have a longer working week than women, working on average 41.0 hours compared with 39.3 hours for women.

Those in the mining and quarrying industry work the longest hours (42.0), while the shortest working week is to be found in the education sector (38.1).

Working week is longest in the UK, shortest in Denmark

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/DDN-20180125-1
 

Howardh

Established Member
Joined
17 May 2011
Messages
8,120
EHIC>>Trying to take a break from politics; in the meantime got my first set of results back from urology - enlarged prostrate = higher than normal PSA figures but within "grey" area = no biopsy (yet); meaning I have a diagnosis so I can get holiday insurance although I have to be retested in 6 months....except I am still waiting for coronary tests and still can't get insured until June at least; and I can't book a holiday anywhere (with the exception of Gibraltar) as by then the EHIC may be taken off us before we go (as and when May's Deal goes through).

If I get the all-clear shortly after June then watch out Europe here I come - EHIC or not. There's plenty time left on my loverly burgundy passport!!!
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,688
Location
Devon
EHIC>>Trying to take a break from politics; in the meantime got my first set of results back from urology - enlarged prostrate = higher than normal PSA figures but within "grey" area = no biopsy (yet); meaning I have a diagnosis so I can get holiday insurance although I have to be retested in 6 months....except I am still waiting for coronary tests and still can't get insured until June at least; and I can't book a holiday anywhere (with the exception of Gibraltar) as by then the EHIC may be taken off us before we go (as and when May's Deal goes through).

If I get the all-clear shortly after June then watch out Europe here I come - EHIC or not. There's plenty time left on my loverly burgundy passport!!!
I hope it all turns out alright for you Howard. Best wishes to you.
Nick
 

Howardh

Established Member
Joined
17 May 2011
Messages
8,120
I hope it all turns out alright for you Howard. Best wishes to you.
Nick
Thanks - I don't care what's wrong (if anything) I just want a name on it so I can get insured - even if it costs!!
 

Groningen

Established Member
Joined
14 Jan 2015
Messages
2,866
@Gooner18: You worry about the Easter break. What about the summer holiday?

In the Netherlands parlement holidays:
May: April 26 - May 13 > 2 weeks
Summer July 5th - September 2nd 2019 > 8 weeks
Autumn: in October 1 week
Source: website 2nd Chamber Dutch parlement

So 3 of the 6,5 months there is nothing done here.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
Quote feature doesn't seem to be working, but in response to #17867...

I don't think national parliaments other than the UK need to get involved again with Brexit unless the withdrawal deal changes, which the EU has ruled out. Otherwise it would never have been possible, from the EU's point of view, for the UK to withdraw on either of the deadline dates that have now passed.
 

adrock1976

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2013
Messages
4,450
Location
What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Regarding Nigel Farage's new Brexit Party, there is a good chance that they will be participating in the upcoming European Parliament elections soon.

It does seem strange that like UKIP, if candidates were elected, the Brexit Party would have members of the European Parliament - the exact establishment that Farage et al are opposed to. Still, the cynic in me says that they would have done well out of it money wise.
 

NoMorePacers

Established Member
Joined
18 Feb 2016
Messages
1,391
Location
Humberside
I mean, Nigel Farage claims to be a representative of the people and has failed to be elected to Parliament something like 7 times I think.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
It's unfortunate that the parties that are unequivocally opposed to Brexit (LibDems, Change UK/TIG, Greens, Plaid, SNP) haven't agreed a joint list for these elections. It's quite possible that their total votes will exceed those of the pro-Brexit parties, depending which camp Labour is in by then, but the headline will be about the number of MEPs and on their own these smaller groupings will fail to make the thresholds in many regions.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,685
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
It's unfortunate that the parties that are unequivocally opposed to Brexit (LibDems, Change UK/TIG, Greens, Plaid, SNP) haven't agreed a joint list for these elections. It's quite possible that their total votes will exceed those of the pro-Brexit parties, depending which camp Labour is in by then, but the headline will be about the number of MEPs and on their own these smaller groupings will fail to make the thresholds in many regions.

Labour will quite possibly still not be in either camp, as they have three fundamental pulls in different directions which are very hard to reconcile:
- a membership very pro remain
- a voter base very pro leave (apart from London)
- a leader apparently pro leave

One might well also add to that a complication that they need Scottish seats to form a majority, and it’s not really fully clear whether Scotland is actually as ardently pro-remain as Sturgeon likes to have us believe. Yes Scotland voted remain, but a substantial number did still vote leave, and the raw figures don’t tell us how much of that remain vote actually care strongly about the issue.

If I were Corbyn I’d possibly be tempted to go for a remain strategy and hope that the blue-collar seats vote Labour based on habit, but it’s a risky strategy and would appear to go against his own beliefs.
 
Last edited:

Carlisle

Established Member
Joined
26 Aug 2012
Messages
4,124
- a voter base very pro leave (apart from London)
As it’s become increasingly clear leaving won’t really benefit the vast majority of ordinary northerners lives in any meaningful way, I think it’s been replaced by an indifference to the whole process or present day politics & politicians in general for some, with largely just those who voted on immigration issues alone now demanding we pull out immediately deal or no deal .
 
Last edited:

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,038
Labour will quite possibly still not be in either camp, as they have three fundamental pulls in different directions which are very hard to reconcile:
- a membership very pro remain
- a voter base very pro leave (apart from London)
- a leader apparently pro leave

One might well also add to that a complication that they need Scottish seats to form a majority, and it’s not really fully clear whether Scotland is actually as ardently pro-remain as Sturgeon likes to have us believe. Yes Scotland voted remain, but a substantial number did still vote leave, and the raw figures don’t tell us how much of that remain vote actually care strongly about the issue.

If I were Corbyn I’d possibly be tempted to go for a remain strategy and hope that the blue-collar seats vote Labour based on habit, but it’s a risky strategy and would appear to go against his own beliefs.
Labour voters were 2/3rds for remain. London voters don't cover it - in all probability labour voters were majority remain almost everywhere.

No idea where you get your weird notion that we don't really care about our remain votes in Scotland either. The disparity with england is likely to owe more to the fact that we have a better political system presenting the voters with sane arguments, combined with the leave campaign relentlessly playing to English nationalism, and the widespread recognition that Scotland's shrinking population needs all the European immigration it can get.
 

Giugiaro

Member
Joined
4 Nov 2011
Messages
1,129
Location
Valongo - Portugal
The disparity with england is likely to owe more to the fact that we have a better political system presenting the voters with sane arguments, combined with the leave campaign relentlessly playing to English nationalism, and the widespread recognition that Scotland's shrinking population needs all the European immigration it can get.

I have another way of looking at it:


Source: https://www.pinterest.pt/pin/380624605997281128/
 

Groningen

Established Member
Joined
14 Jan 2015
Messages
2,866
In order to get changes to the relation UK - EU Theresa May needs to go to Brussel again at some point.

What i wanted to say with the political holidays in the Netherlands is, that did is also for the UK and the EU. Less time for all parties. Will something change to the agreement? I do not know.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
In order to get changes to the relation UK - EU Theresa May needs to go to Brussel again at some point.

What i wanted to say with the political holidays in the Netherlands is, that did is also for the UK and the EU. Less time for all parties. Will something change to the agreement? I do not know.
I think we can be fairly sure that the actual withdrawal agreement won't change. The EU has had enough of the UK asking repeatedly for changes to the backstop that they have already saie are not possible, and by trying to work with Labour May has now effectively given up on that.

The key thing now is the political declaration which defines the long-term relationship, and the sticking point is the UK not the EU. That isn't binding at present and the EU appears flexible to change it within certain limits. Their negotiators appear to have a good understanding of what the rest of the EU will accept, so changing it probably doesn't involve consulting parliaments or even leaders of member states. However I'm pretty certain that if a political declaration is agreed it will have to be written into UK law alongside the deal before any withdrawal, otherwise a future prime minister who is likely to be a hard Brexit supporter will try to move the agreement in that direction.

All this cavorting through hoops to deliver something that almost nobody expects will improve anybody's lives just makes it more critical that we have a referendum on whatever Parliament finally agrees. It will have no democratic legitimacy otherwise.
 

Groningen

Established Member
Joined
14 Jan 2015
Messages
2,866
The view in the Netherlands is that the murder of a journalist in Londonderry can not be seen separate of Brexit. Also as it stands now the Brexit Party will be the largest party if polls are right for the European elections.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top