EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[fowler9]

The weekend after we crash out of the EU without a deal I am travelling on the Enterprise service from Belfast to Dublin. Promises to be quite iconic.

 

[Struner]

So you do it on purpose? Shall I join you?

 

[NoMorePacers]

The weekend after we crash out of the EU without a deal I am travelling on the Enterprise service from Belfast to Dublin. Promises to be quite iconic.

Of course, the Irish Border issues are just 'Project Fear' until they actually happen.

 

[mmh]

The weekend after we crash out of the EU without a deal I am travelling on the Enterprise service from Belfast to Dublin. Promises to be quite iconic.

What do you think will be different?

 

[Struner]

UK passportholders will be allowed in of course, just like me as a Frisian with an NL passport.
But someone with a true blue passport may be searched for weapons...

 

[deltic]

Someone will issue a bomb threat and the line will be closed

 

[mmh]

Meanwhile back in the real world nobody will care what passport you may or may not be carrying and the journey will be exactly the same as it is today.

 

[EM2]

Meanwhile back in the real world nobody will care what passport you may or may not be carrying and the journey will be exactly the same as it is today.

Have you told the UK and Irish governments this? Because they seemed rather vexed about the situation just at the moment.

 

[mmh]

Have you told the UK and Irish governments this? Because they seemed rather vexed about the situation just at the moment.

Yes, they have. Multiple, multiple times.

 

[Struner]

Meanwhile back in the real world nobody will care what passport you may or may not be carrying and the journey will be exactly the same as it is today.

Indeed, dream on...

 

[mmh]

Yes, they have. Multiple, multiple times.

I misread your post. You were asking if I had told them I won't need a passport. I haven't, obviously. You will not need a passport to go from Ireland to the UK. That's not supposition, it's fact.

 

[NoMorePacers]

I misread your post. You were asking if I had told them I won't need a passport. I haven't, obviously. You will not need a passport to go from Ireland to the UK. That's not supposition, it's fact.

I'd just like to see some sources to confirm that, please. Not that I'm accusing you of lying, just would like a source (preferably multiple).

 

[mmh]

I'd just like to see some sources to confirm that, please. Not that I'm accusing you of lying, just would like a source (preferably multiple).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-48194071

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/pol...epublic-and-uk-will-remain-1.3621934?mode=amp
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...heresa-may-register-advance-a8253511.html?amp

 

[Struner]

& there will be a border control. It’s called: take back control

 

[Howardh]

Meanwhile back in the real world nobody will care what passport you may or may not be carrying and the journey will be exactly the same as it is today.

Between GB and NI, and between GB and RoI it SHOULD be exactly as it is today as the Common Travel Area will continue. The complication arises if a hard border is installed between NI and RoI; it will probably be a check on goods in transit rather than persons, a bit like when you arrive in Southampton (airport) from the Channel Islands your ID isn't checked on arrival, but you have to go through customs.
Again, with a hard border, the same would apply at Irish ports receiving shipping from the UK.
The drawback for Brexit is if passports aren't checked on people entering the UK from the Republic, then you have no control as to whether those EU people crossing have a right to be here or not (ie criminals) as they would have a perfect right to be in the RoI under freedom of movement rules.
The big changes will be in 2021 when the ETIAS is introduced and it is very likely all UK citizens will require that to be completed for travel to the EU (with the exception of Ireland) and anyone wanting a longer stay will have to have a visa.

 

[Howardh]

I misread your post. You were asking if I had told them I won't need a passport. I haven't, obviously. You will not need a passport to go from Ireland to the UK. That's not supposition, it's fact.

If you fly you need photo ID of some kind, passport or driving licence, maybe blue badge, that's for airline security to ensure the name matches the ticket. That applies on wholly domestic flights and those to the RoI.
I don't know what the situation is on passenger ferries, I have done the trip Holyhead-Dublin but can't remember at all whether I was asked for ID or not.
Can anyone who has done this recently explain the current situation? I think photo ID is strongly advised rather than compulsory?

 

[fowler9]

What do you think will be different?

I really don't know. Do you know what will be different? Technically it could be like when I passed from Bosnia to Croatia two years back and could take over three hours. What do you think will be different?

 

[mmh]

If you fly you need photo ID of some kind, passport or driving licence, maybe blue badge, that's for airline security to ensure the name matches the ticket. That applies on wholly domestic flights and those to the RoI.

This is not true. It's up to the carrier if they care what you look like or not.

 

[Howardh]

This is not true. It's up to the carrier if they care what you look like or not.

True, and I've just looked at the FlyBE site which states

Republic of Ireland travel
British and Irish citizens must have a form of photographic ID which proves their nationality/citizenship for immigration purposes e.g. a valid passport or full/provisional photographic driving licence. Irish public service cards are not a valid form of identification.

British and Irish citizens under the age of 18 do not need a passport when travelling with a parent or guardian but it is highly recommended that they have one. Without a passport, the parent/guardian must be able to prove the relationship with the child, showing birth certificate, marriage certificate etc.

A child of any other nationality must hold a passport which is covered for the period of intended stay.

I'm not trawling through all the other companies but I would be very surprised if any were significantly different. Even if they didn't want photo ID, I suspect they would want SOME ID even if it were the card you booked with.
Is it possible to stroll up to a ticket desk, buy an air ticket with cash, be given a ticket and simply proceed through security onto the plane?

ADDS I've just had a look at Ryanair and it states that a photo driving licence isn't sufficient between UK/RoI. Again that's their rules.

 

[takno]

True, and I've just looked at the FlyBE site which states

I'm not trawling through all the other companies but I would be very surprised if any were significantly different. Even if they didn't want photo ID, I suspect they would want SOME ID even if it were the card you booked with.
Is it possible to stroll up to a ticket desk, buy an air ticket with cash, be given a ticket and simply proceed through security onto the plane?

ADDS I've just had a look at Ryanair and it states that a photo driving licence isn't sufficient between UK/RoI. Again that's their rules.

No need for ID in BA internal flights if you aren't checking luggage.

 

[Howardh]

Stena Line;

I’M A BRITISH / IRISH CITIZEN. DO I NEED A PASSPORT TO TRAVEL?


British or Irish citizens travelling on our Irish Sea routes do not need a passport to travel to Britain or Ireland but are advised to take a form of identity. A valid passport, photographic driving license, International Student Card, government issued photo ID card, health insurance/social security photographic card, photographic bus/train pass or EU Citizen Identity Card will usually suffice. A birth certificate will provide adequate proof of identity for children (17 years and under with no photographic identification) to travel on our sailings.
All customers travelling to and from the Netherlands on the Harwich - Hook of Holland route must have a valid passport. You will not be permitted to travel to and from Holland without a valid passport.
Customers travelling to France on our Rosslare - Cherbourg route require a valid passport.
Remember that the name on your passport must match the name on your booking, otherwise you may not be able to travel and your insurance may be invalid. Other passport holders should check with the relevant embassy regarding passport and visa requirements.

 

[Howardh]

No need for ID in BA internal flights if you aren't checking luggage.

Despite saying I wan't gonna trawl round, it appears flying with BA is the only way to travel to either part of Ireland from the UK without a photograph of yourself. I find it gobsmacking that we HAVE to have photo ID to travel between two parts of our own country (GB and NI) at all; obviously if you fly with BA it's (strangely these days) the only way round it.
After Brexit whilst we have to show photo ID, an EU citizen can simply cross into Ireland with his ID card and stroll into Northern Ireland unchecked. His card may be looked at again if he crosses to GB - but who would be looking - the ferry company? Immigration officials? And if he shouldn't be in the UK against our terrorist laws (yet he can be in the RoI legally) how can we stop him if the only people checking are to see the ID card matches the ticket?
Makes a mockery of having thorough checks and wasting everyone's time at Dover or Heathrow.

 

[Struner]

1. Apart from the “common travel area” which only goes for people, the border on the island of Ireland will be the same as the border beween France & the uk.
2. Surely this has been mentioned before.
3. Sorry about the silly numbering, not my device

 

[fowler9]

That is all really interesting but do any of you actually know what is going to happen after we leave the EU without a deal? You really don't know. I will be trying to travel in to an EU country from a none EU one, this is something I have done before. I will bow to your superior knowledge though. Ha ha. Maybe it will all be fine.

 

[Howardh]

1. Apart from the “common travel area” which only goes for people, the border on the island of Ireland will be the same as the border beween France & the uk.
2. Surely this has been mentioned before.
3. Sorry about the silly numbering, not my device

If it's a physical border with buildings, gates, CCTV etc, it won't last very long and I wouldn't want to be an official there. When the Irish (both parts) write on walls "No Hard Border" we should take more than a note.

 

[Howardh]

That is all really interesting but do any of you actually know what is going to happen after we leave the EU without a deal? You really don't know. I will be trying to travel in to an EU country from a none EU one, this is something I have done before. I will bow to your superior knowledge though. Ha ha. Maybe it will all be fine.

The BBC's had a go - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47470864
One example out of the ten

You won't need a visa for stays of up to 90 days out of any 180-day period in the EU or Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland (the European Economic Area). However, you may need a visa or permit to stay for longer, or to work or study.
The government has also advised that at EU borders you may need to:
show a return or onward ticket
show you have enough money for your stay
use separate queueing lanes from EU, EEA and Swiss citize

So basically we will be treated the same way as a non-EU citizen enters the UK (you have all witnessed the long queues at airports!) save for most of us not requiring a visa - and as I have alluded to the visa-waiver is on it's way (ETIAS).

 

[Struner]

Between GB and NI, and between GB and RoI it SHOULD be exactly as it is today as the Common Travel Area will continue. The complication arises if a hard border is installed between NI and RoI; it will probably be a check on goods in transit rather than persons, a bit like when you arrive in Southampton (airport) from the Channel Islands your ID isn't checked on arrival, but you have to go through customs.
Again, with a hard border, the same would apply at Irish ports receiving shipping from the UK.
The drawback for Brexit is if passports aren't checked on people entering the UK from the Republic, then you have no control as to whether those EU people crossing have a right to be here or not (ie criminals) as they would have a perfect right to be in the RoI under freedom of movement rules.
The big changes will be in 2021 when the ETIAS is introduced and it is very likely all UK citizens will require that to be completed for travel to the EU (with the exception of Ireland) and anyone wanting a longer stay will have to have a visa.

Indeed, as the uk seems to harbour quite a few international criminals, owning substantial properties in its capital, perhaps the EU should be worried...

 

[Struner]

If it's a physical border with buildings, gates, CCTV etc, it won't last very long and I wouldn't want to be an official there. When the Irish (both parts) write on walls "No Hard Border" we should take more than a note.

It’s up to you!

 

[mmh]

I'm not trawling through all the other companies but I would be very surprised if any were significantly different. Even if they didn't want photo ID, I suspect they would want SOME ID even if it were the card you booked with.
Is it possible to stroll up to a ticket desk, buy an air ticket with cash, be given a ticket and simply proceed through security onto the plane?

I don't understand why you don't believe me.

 

[Howardh]

It’s up to you!

??? What do you mean?