EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ainsworth74, 23 Jun 2016.

  1. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm not sure that the ID requirements of internal flights is quite related to Brexit so can I ask that we leave it there?
     
  2. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    I have offered you explanations in the past which you have totally ignored. I have better things to do with my time.
     
  3. jellybaby

    jellybaby Member

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    Or at least the ability for EU citizens to work legally. Some people think there will be more illegal employment post Brexit with the reduction in tax income and increase in worker exploitation that goes with that.
     
  4. nlogax

    nlogax Established Member

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    You've offered suggestions such as Googling for 'ports directive' and Googling ('in vain') for results which would show it to be beneficial to the UK. Not forgetting that one link to a statement that certain organisations were against it.

    Not really substantive as explanations go. Not really explanations at all, right?
     
  5. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Blue badge, I think (need to check mum's but I'm not going to the car in this weather - teeming down!)
     
  6. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Established Member

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    Show me one. I may have challenged, but not ignored.

    You have a history of posting unsubstantiated rhetoric and don't like being called out on it, like many in the leave camp who swallow the propaganda and out and out lies from the leave politicians and media.

    Until you can support it, it's not a fact and counts for nothing in a debate.
     
  7. Geezertronic

    Geezertronic Established Member

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    Driving license card?
     
  8. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    Yawn.
     
  9. Doppelganger

    Doppelganger Member

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    That deffo doesn't show nationality...
     
  10. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Established Member

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    At that is exactly why we're in this mess. The voice of the Brexiteer when asked for any evidence to support their claim.

    Which is why we have a government led by a liar, a cabinet stuffed with liars none of whom display any competence or concern for others, who continue to lie and mislead spending more on preparing for a no deal that we were assured would never come.
     
  11. EM2

    EM2 Established Member

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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49183324
    Brexit: £2.1bn extra for no-deal Brexit planning
     
  12. Doppelganger

    Doppelganger Member

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  13. Doppelganger

    Doppelganger Member

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    This tells you all you need to know about Brexiteers and how they try to continually deceive:

    https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...ce-that-dominic-raab-warned-of-no-deal-brexit

     
  14. 433N

    433N Member

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    Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland ...

    So Where's Wally today then ?
     
  15. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    At 616 pages I'd avoided this thread until now but curiosity got the better of me. This post confirms that was the right thing to do and I'll be avoiding it in future.

    Minds have been closed. The fault is in ourselves. A large part of this country has tried to ignore the benefits of the EU but has decided to hang all sorts of ills upon it with often gossamer threads of fact.

    There is so much wrong with this country that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the EU. For the last 3 years we've concentrated on an issue that we still don't seem to understand.

    We can't blame the EU for most of the decisions that have determined how we live.
    They aren't responsible for the beggars on our high streets. They didn't order 2 aircraft carriers without aircraft at vast expense and oversee a navy down to 19 frigates and destroyers of which only 10 can currently be deployed worldwide.

    It wasn't the EU that has overseen our university priorities of quantity over quality. A nation that has bright young people wanting to become doctors but being turned away and going to study in Europe to qualify. Yet we continue to have to seek immigrants to man the NHS, not least because many who have qualified can't stand the conditions and leave.

    No, I haven't time to go into this further. Our preoccupation for ignoring any benefits that flow from membership is why we've got ourselves in this mess. We're now going to spend billions making the best of it. We'll muddle through, our young people making the best of it.

    Funny thing is the German people seem to have been doing rather well at that for the last 70 years. Instead of hanging on and learning from them we're hell bent on driving over a cliff towards an ill defined pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

    Boris bluster seems to have won the day, for now. I hope our young folk will be able to make it all work for him. They'll be the ones to benefit most if they can.

    Holding a referendum without a 60:40 trigger to decide constitutional change was a very big error.
     
  16. NoMorePacers

    NoMorePacers Member

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    A NON-LEGALLY BINDING referendum may I remind everyone.
     
  17. 433N

    433N Member

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    Of all the issues following the referendum, this one has been ignored - largely because you know what the response will be from Leavers if you bring it up.

    It was stupendously silly to not have a 60:40, or even two-thirds majority requirement as wouldn't be unusual in other countries. Why ? Simply, 52:48 doesn't cover the sampling error in 'the Will of the People'.

    Yet, it is so in keeping with the silly British 'First Past the Post' system which relies on never having to form a consensus amongst opposition parties. Of course, we never fitted in with the EU ; it requires consensus politics to find agreement between many countries with diverse national interests. Why would we fit in ? We have winner-takes-it-all winner-can-do-what-winner-likes.

    Now, I find I must have daily lessons in 'democracy' from people who think Aristotle plays centre-half for Brazil.

    Inselaffen ; as Johnny Foreigner would say.
     
  18. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    BBC is saying something very similar, presumably with access to the recordings that Channel 4 couldn't cover: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836
     
  19. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    What Cameron should probably have done, if he had to have a referendum at all, was to make clear that it would be a mandate to negotiate an exit deal after which there would be another referendum either to confirm the deal or to revert to the status quo. This would have avoided the false choice where the upsides and downsides of remaining were clear but leaving was defined only as what a politician or voter thought it might be at the time. In 2016 the Brexiters would have accepted that - Rees-Mogg is even on record suggesting it a few years before.

    Perhaps we should have a referendum on the continued existence of the Tory party, which many people would argue has damaged the UK far more than the EU ever might? As no party has got anywhere near 50% of the popular vote in recent history it's prettly likely then would lose. They would then be unable to assume power ever again, with no right to re-consider.
     
  20. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    I wonder if a comparison could be drawn to your most eloquently wording posting above:-

    Which is why we have the major opposition party led by an extreme left-wing socialist, a shadow cabinet stuffed with extreme left wing socialists none of which display any competence or concern for others who do not espouse their viewpoint, who continue to be beholden to the even more extreme socialist Momentum puppet-masters in their party organisation and preparing to stand up to larger countries who will think their party's views are not of the 21st century.
     
  21. cactustwirly

    cactustwirly Established Member

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    Both parties are run by liars and idiots :rolleyes:
     
  22. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    Perhaps you would extend that scenario to all other political parties who also have not in recent times achieved a 50% share of the popular vote and then wonder why no political parties then will exist in Britain.
     
  23. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    It wasn't a serious suggestion, more to highlight the ridiculousness of making such a fundamental decision on such flimsy arguments.

    But I suspect the country would be a better place if we got rid of the people in positions of leadership or influence in both major parties. And probably most of the minor ones too.
     
  24. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    Spent a few months away from this thread. Come back and I still despair at the state of this country. What a joke we are.

    Sack all of them.
     
  25. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    Is it not at times like this when King Arthur and his knights are said to come to the aid of Britain?
     
  26. 433N

    433N Member

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    Well, it would certainly be nice to have protection from an EU Army which is sent in to protect its citizens when their countries are taken over by right wing despots.
     
  27. nidave

    nidave Member

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    It's a bit later than advertised but an emergency budget looks likely. Are we still calling it project fear or as its being done by leavers its all good and we knew about it all the time when the ballots were cast??

    Government refuses to rule out emergency no-deal Brexit budget

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...budget?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
     
  28. NoMorePacers

    NoMorePacers Member

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    Well everything is Project Fear until it actually happens.
     
  29. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Erm, you mean these aircraft carriers with these aircraft on them?

    [​IMG]

    (Image of pair of F-35s on HMS Queen Elizabeth via UK Defence Journal)

    Those aircraft carriers with no aircraft? :lol:

    As for the destroyer/frigate force I can only agree it's too small but you'll struggle to find many navies anywhere that have, by proportion, as many ships deployed or deployable as the Royal Navy manage.
     
  30. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    Queen Elizabeth ordered 2008, commissioned December 2017 and currently undergoing training to enter service in 2020. As part of trials aircraft have landed but won't be deployed until this autumn.

    HMS Prince of Wales may be operational by 2023. We will only be able to operate one at a time and the cost is enormous, £3 billion each and some . However, they'll look good at reviews but where we'll be able to deploy them safely to be effective is a very interesting debate. Not really for a rail related forum, but we could easily have electrified the Midland mainline for the cost of those two ships.

    Off topic now as that's not the Brexit debate although it's part of the aftermath.
     

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