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EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

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edwin_m

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Or, in the case of border areas (e.g. Northern Ireland), a five minute walk.
There must be places where the reception near a border means a phone is actually picking up the roaming signal from the other side, in which case people could be paying roaming charges while in their own country.
 

jellybaby

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There must be places where the reception near a border means a phone is actually picking up the roaming signal from the other side, in which case people could be paying roaming charges while in their own country.
That happens in Sandwich, Kent where the French network signals can be stronger than the UK. My friend got an unexpectedly large bill one month when her phone roamed without her noticing and then someone called her.
 

najaB

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There must be places where the reception near a border means a phone is actually picking up the roaming signal from the other side, in which case people could be paying roaming charges while in their own country.
It used to happen quite frequently in NI (and in Kent as @jellybaby notes).
 

Aictos

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That happens in Sandwich, Kent where the French network signals can be stronger than the UK. My friend got an unexpectedly large bill one month when her phone roamed without her noticing and then someone called her.

How come the French network signals were stronger then the UK network signals?
 
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I can assure you most things on the high street have a huge markup on them. If people really knew how much things were at cost price they would be shocked. Mobile phone costs are no different.
 
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Yes, that's true. I remember tariffs increasing when EU roaming charges were abolished. Oh, wait...

They have. IDD call costs have gone up, in some cases by more than 200%, out-of-bundle call charges on pay monthly contracts have gone up by as much as 50% in cases. Out of EU roaming costs have incrementally risen as well. Just because you’ve chosen not to see that doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.
 

Bletchleyite

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Or, in the case of border areas (e.g. Northern Ireland), a five minute walk.

They are also an example of EU consumer protection. Roaming costs the network provider, but only a tiny fraction of what they were charging their customers. If the providers had been reasonable and only passed on the real extra costs then the EU wouldn't have acted to remove the charges completely.

Agreed. I don't think a small charge is unreasonable. Unfortunately they took the mick so they were forced to do it for free. Business usually gets regulated when it behaves unreasonably.
 

jon0844

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How come the French network signals were stronger then the UK network signals?

It isn't solely signal strength but quality. When you're in some parts of Kent, near the coast, you may have a good signal from across the water versus a signal from inland that is impacted by buildings etc.

When I was in Dover, I occasionally roamed on a French network but it was while walking along the cliffs.
 

Aictos

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It isn't solely signal strength but quality. When you're in some parts of Kent, near the coast, you may have a good signal from across the water versus a signal from inland that is impacted by buildings etc.

When I was in Dover, I occasionally roamed on a French network but it was while walking along the cliffs.

Ahh, I thought roaming charges were abolished so regardless if you’re on the Irish side or Northern Ireland side if the border it wouldn’t matter as it cost the same.
 

krus_aragon

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Ahh, I thought roaming charges were abolished so regardless if you’re on the Irish side or Northern Ireland side if the border it wouldn’t matter as it cost the same.
That is the case now. In the future, well that's what the discussion is about...
 

najaB

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Ahh, I thought roaming charges were abolished so regardless if you’re on the Irish side or Northern Ireland side if the border it wouldn’t matter as it cost the same.
Since NI and Ireland are both EU countries (for another two weeks) that is the case.
 

Aictos

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Since NI and Ireland are both EU countries (for another two weeks) that is the case.

However once we leave the EU, will mobile operators keep the status quo of no roaming charges or would they put up roaming charges?
 

packermac

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However once we leave the EU, will mobile operators keep the status quo of no roaming charges or would they put up roaming charges?
If there is no legal requirement that forbids it why would any company forgo a revenue stream? Other than some perceived marketing benefit?
 

jon0844

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However once we leave the EU, will mobile operators keep the status quo of no roaming charges or would they put up roaming charges?

My prediction, based also on what people working in the industry are talking about, is we won't see price hikes straight away (unless they all collude to do it at once) but we will see restrictions. Data caps, blocking of certain services (and a fee to lift the restriction, such as the data passport Three once offered), no tethering (so no using your phone for connecting your laptop when travelling) and so on.

Out of bundle charges, as in the UK, could also sky rocket. Yes, much of this was due to the EU rules but don't expect them to be cut now we've left.

The headline monthly fee is likely to be regulated through competition, but don't think for one minute we won't see changes once EU regulations end and we see how the UK is willing to sacrifice our own protections for great trade deals.
 

Esker-pades

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They have. IDD call costs have gone up, in some cases by more than 200%, out-of-bundle call charges on pay monthly contracts have gone up by as much as 50% in cases. Out of EU roaming costs have incrementally risen as well. Just because you’ve chosen not to see that doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.
Could you point to sources that confirm that:
  • This actually happened
  • This was as a result of data roaming charges in the EU being abolished
Thanks.
 

jon0844

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The cost of making international calls has been rising for some time, as the main operators are not really interested in being competitive. The likes of Lebara and others have that market sewn up now, plus there's VoIP for free via Facebook, Whatsapp and so on.

When the EU changes came to their conclusion, networks were bumping up service charges. Out of bundle rates are now extremely high, but, again, how many people are exceeding their call or text allowances? Most plans have unlimited calls and texts. And now you can get unlimited data for very little cost (for a while last year, you could snag a SIM only plan on Three with unlimited calls, texts and data for £13.50 a month! If anyone thinks £13.50 a month is expensive, given it includes roaming too, we really are in for a shock in a few years.
 

najaB

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...plus there's VoIP for free via Facebook, Whatsapp and so on...
This has had a bigger impact than Lebra, etc. Mobile (and to a slightly lesser extent fixed-line operators) see themselves as IP providers with voice service thrown in on top.

From a purely technical point of view this makes sense - why continue to emulate circuit-switched networks on top of their packet-switched networks?
 

dgl

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Accidental roaming has been known to happen on Portland, as for why it happens, RF is a black art and always will be, you can only predict roughly what will happen concerning the coverage area, plus the signal being transmitted from a cell tower will be roughly omnidirectional with lobes that have reduced signal, look at the old BBC R&D reports for antenna installations and you'll get what I mean.
 

jon0844

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This has had a bigger impact than Lebra, etc. Mobile (and to a slightly lesser extent fixed-line operators) see themselves as IP providers with voice service thrown in on top.

From a purely technical point of view this makes sense - why continue to emulate circuit-switched networks on top of their packet-switched networks?

I forgot about that. With circuit switching on its way out and everything eventually being IP-based, I am sure there are lots of issues with legacy equipment in other countries, which also makes it increasingly expensive (the cost of maintaining out of date infrastructure probably gets passed on - although I don't know the wholesale rates).

I really don't think networks want or care about those making international calls (it is probably a fraction of calls, which are themselves decreasing all the time). Some networks even offer least-cost-routing type services themselves, so you dial a shortcode to make cheaper (or free) calls. In effect, bypassing the traditional networks themselves.

The call quality can be terrible (like when Indian phone scammers ring you) but at the price, or lack of, nobody seems to care.
 

JonasB

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There must be places where the reception near a border means a phone is actually picking up the roaming signal from the other side, in which case people could be paying roaming charges while in their own country.

Has happened to me. I've gotten a "Welcome to Finland"-text message on a trip to the coastline here (30 km from Finland).
 
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Could you point to sources that confirm that:
  • This actually happened
  • This was as a result of data roaming charges in the EU being abolished
Thanks.

Up until last year, I worked for a mobile phone network and saw first hand internal documents that stated price rises were due to a competitive market “due to new EU roaming regulations”. Obviously I won’t say more than that.

Without stating the obvious, whether you agree with leaving the EU or not (and I get the distinct impression that 95% of the people on this thread voted remain), change will most undoubtedly happen and there isn’t much point going on and on about it. If anything changes, I reckon it’ll be a LONG way away....
 

Aictos

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The other thing I’m wondering about is at the moment you have Three UK who have a roaming agreement with T-Mobile in Germany now will the existing roaming agreements stay after Dec 2020 or would the networks need to resign all the various roaming agreements?

That’s just one example by the way, of course it might just be that as a result of us leaving the EU that a locally brought sim might be better but for short stays that might not be economic or value to the end user.
 

najaB

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Up until last year, I worked for a mobile phone network and saw first hand internal documents that stated price rises were due to a competitive market “due to new EU roaming regulations”.
"Price rises" and "comptetitive market" are very rarely, if ever, part of the same sentence without a negative joining clause - for example "price rises have been minimised due to the competitive market" or "despite price rises, the market remains competitive"...

After all, if the market is competitive raising your prices is hardly likely to win you new customers!
 

najaB

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The other thing I’m wondering about is at the moment you have Three UK who have a roaming agreement with T-Mobile in Germany now will the existing roaming agreements stay after Dec 2020 or would the networks need to resign all the various roaming agreements?
I don't see any reason why the agreeements would be terminated.
 

Esker-pades

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Up until last year, I worked for a mobile phone network and saw first hand internal documents that stated price rises were due to a competitive market “due to new EU roaming regulations”. Obviously I won’t say more than that.
That's fair enough. Thanks for that.

Without stating the obvious, whether you agree with leaving the EU or not (and I get the distinct impression that 95% of the people on this thread voted remain), change will most undoubtedly happen and there isn’t much point going on and on about it. If anything changes, I reckon it’ll be a LONG way away....
Why shouldn't I (and others) keep stating that leaving the EU is not a good idea? Until recently, the idea that voicing an opinion backed with plenty of facts and evidence would be uncontroversial. In '97 when Blair won his first landslide, the opposition didn't just shut up and vote along with the government. But, now that Johnson has won his it appears that people with opposing views are supposed to do exactly that. That is not how democracy should work.
 
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