European cities with ‘classic’ bus/tram still in service

[alex397]

I’m trying to plan a 2024 trip around European cities that have ‘classic’ trams or trolleybuses still in service (or even buses, but ‘classic’ buses are much rarer) that have their days numbered.

I often only find out that a classic type is being withdrawn after they have long gone, so I’m trying not to let that happen this year!

‘Classic’ of course means different things to different people, but I tend to mean types that are pre-millennium, and always like to track down a Tatra tram or a Skoda 14Tr / 15Tr trolleybus.

For example, I’m aware that the Woltersdorf Strassenbahn on the outskirts of Berlin will have their Gotha T57 trams imminently replaced by new Polish built types (EDIT: research suggests May/June 2024), and that Sarajevo will soon have new Swiss trams replacing most if not all of their Tatra trams (and imported Duewags). Poznan has 3 remaining 1960s Duewag trams which come out at peak times, and I can’t imagine will last much longer (EDIT: as of 1st March 2024, three Duewags still come out at peak times, and there are quite a few Konstals that come out too).
Vilnius still surprisingly has a large fleet of Skoda 14Tr types in operation, which I don’t think are due to be withdrawn soon. There are also a couple of 15Tr types still going.
Riga still has Tatra T3s in service too. Again, there doesn’t seem to be a plan to replace them yet.

Are there any other cities which will be worth visiting soon to make the most of classic types? Tatra trams and Skoda trolleybuses tend to be my favourite but I like most things from the 60s-90s era.

I have visited Prague, Brno (Tatras) and Bruxelles (PCCs) recently so probably will avoid that this year.

I have my eye on Kosice, Slovakia which I could tie in with Bratislava.

 

[rg177]

Bratislava tram line 4 still has old Tatra T3s on - easily found as the departure screens have them shown without the wheelchair symbol.

Can vouch this to be true as of last night - no doubt more come out to play during the week.

Prague has plenty too, still - some modernised to be low floor but they're not hard to locate. Even used on the night lines.

Kraków has some old Konstal ones - usually on line 52 during the week and line 6 on weekends - they're pretty much original unlike the various modernisations and facelifts done on them elsewhere.

 

[ponponjo]

Vienna still has the E2 trams and C5 trailer cars in regular passenger service.

 

[richw]

Milan has 1920s trams in service on line 1, and possibly one other line

 

[The exile]

Milan has 1920s trams in service on line 1, and possibly one other line

Add lines 19 and 5 - at least they were last June. Still some 1959s vintage stuff as well - though I believe these are likely to go before the older ones do.

 

[Iskra]

Kyiv has trams dating back to 1976. I’m not sure how sensible or ethical it is to visit right now though.

 

[Iskra]

And Lviv actually




Plus Milan as already mentioned



Although the coolest trams of all are in San Francisco and Blackpool.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Lisbon still has classic trams running, with a trip out to nearby Sintra for the Sintra Tramway worth it (although check it is running in advance). Also Portuguese territory is Madeira which has a nice selection of 1990s buses, especially when a cruise ship visits the capital Funchal

Croydon and Sheffield in the UK both run trams built in the 1990s

 

[30907]

I'm not up-tp-date - last visit was 2 years ago - but:

Kosice is M-F only for older trams (except possibly on the steelworks routes)
Bratislava had a good mix when I was last there, as did Plzen.and Olomouc in CZ - and I suspect Ostrava which is much bigger but I've not visited..

Gòrlitz? Cottbus? I think Dresden (and Leipzig?) are finished with Tatras

Katowice and the whole Silesian network? - and Krakow possibly?

Are you familiar with https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/list.php?5
- you don't need to write in German!

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Nantes in France still has some TSF-1 trams in service which inaugurated the first new generation tramway in the country in 1985. They are scheduled to be retired by the end of this year, however.

 

[richw]

Add lines 19 and 5 - at least they were last June. Still some 1959s vintage stuff as well - though I believe these are likely to go before the older ones do.

Our hotel was on the outskirts best reached by line 1. I was like an excited kid at Christmas when I discovered it.

 

[Tester]

Kosice is highly recommended.

Tramwise the interurban line to the steelworks is well worth doing. Check times as there are some long gaps in the service - around shift change times is best.

Additionally the technical museum and the steel museum are worth a visit.

 

[rf_ioliver]

Helsinki still has its 1970s Valmet Hr II trams running; these received a centre section between 2006 and 2011 (the whole fleet was modernised between 1996 and 2005) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valmet_Nr_II

However, the "Beer Tram" still runs: https://www.raflaamo.fi/en/restaurant/helsinki/sparakoff , more technical details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpåraKoff

 

[alex397]

Bratislava tram line 4 still has old Tatra T3s on - easily found as the departure screens have them shown without the wheelchair symbol.

Thanks for the info. Strangely, when I stayed in Bratislava back in August 2018, I was unable to see any Tatra T3s. Not quite sure why, I might not have looked hard enough, and may have been more interested in trolleybuses then. However, I’ve seen plenty of pictures of the T3s in service since then.

Kraków has some old Konstal ones - usually on line 52 during the week and line 6 on weekends - they're pretty much original unlike the various modernisations and facelifts done on them elsewhere.

Surprised to hear these are still in service. A revisit there may be on the cards.

Vienna still has the E2 trams and C5 trailer cars in regular passenger service.

Again, I’m surprised Vienna still has these. I was under the impression my visit back in 2018 would be the last time I’d see them. I think I will try and plan a Vienna-Bratislava-Kosice trip for the summer.

Also Portuguese territory is Madeira which has a nice selection of 1990s buses, especially when a cruise ship visits the capital Funchal

funnily enough someone else mentioned this island recently. B10Ms I believe? Last time I travelled on a B10M was to Ramsgate!

Croydon and Sheffield in the UK both run trams built in the 1990s

Not quite what I’m looking for

Kosice is highly recommended.

Tramwise the interurban line to the steelworks is well worth doing. Check times as there are some long gaps in the service - around shift change times is best.

Additionally the technical museum and the steel museum are worth a visit.

Thanks for the info. It’s long been on my ‘to do’ list.
I saw the line to the steel works on the urbanrail website and certainly intrigued by that, especially as I’m a fan of interurban trams. Are ‘normal’ passengers really allowed on that line? If they are, I may avoid taking photos at the terminus!

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

B10Ms I believe? Last time I travelled on a B10M was to Ramsgate!

As well as Scania and MAN vehicles of a similar vintage

 

[Tester]

Thanks for the info. It’s long been on my ‘to do’ list.
I saw the line to the steel works on the urbanrail website and certainly intrigued by that, especially as I’m a fan of interurban trams. Are ‘normal’ passengers really allowed on that line? If they are, I may avoid taking photos at the terminus!

Absolutely - it's an integral part of the public transport system. And no extra fare even though it's a long way out of town.

Whilst unsurprisingly you can't enter the steelworks, you can change there to buses to other parts of Kosice. Check the map online.

Enjoy!

 

[AlbertBeale]

As far as I know, Turin still has one or more ancient trams on one of its routes.

(And there's always the Bakerloo Line in London.....)

 

[The exile]

Our hotel was on the outskirts best reached by line 1. I was like an excited kid at Christmas when I discovered it.

It’s always wonderful when you find that the arrangements you made “in ignorance” mean you end up using heritage transport for “genuine” reasons.

 

[richw]

It’s always wonderful when you find that the arrangements you made “in ignorance” mean you end up using heritage transport for “genuine” reasons.

On trip advisor it was getting bad reviews for poor public transport access. L.Go.Boccioni tram stop was 1 minute walk through an underpass away, and Milano Certoso rail station was less than 10 minutes walk. I don’t understand the trip advisor complaints about not being near public transport the hotel receives!

 

[The exile]

On trip advisor it was getting bad reviews for poor public transport access. L.Go.Boccioni tram stop was 1 minute walk through an underpass away, and Milano Certoso rail station was less than 10 minutes walk. I don’t understand the trip advisor complaints about not being near public transport the hotel receives!

Someone arrives on the airport shuttle and discovers the hotel front door isn’t on the station platform!

 

[alex397]

I had forgotten about Milan, so that is now on my radar. Not sure I’ll fit it in this year though.

A friend is travelling to Berlin at Easter. I may join him, and go to a few other places in east Germany. I am surprised that a number of eastern Germany cities still have Tatras in service. If I stay in Leipzig (which has direct Ryanair flights from London), I could have a day trip to Gotha - I’m intrigued by line 4 which is one of Germany’s last traditional interurbans. They seem to have plenty of Duewags and Tatras in service.

Does anyone know if any of the East German cities plan to get rid of their Tatras this year?

Also, in the Berlin area, I’m wondering if the Schöneiche and Strausberg will have Tatras still in regular service? Particularly the ex-Kosice Tatra at Strausberg.

 

[AY1975]

I had forgotten about Milan, so that is now on my radar. Not sure I’ll fit it in this year though.

A friend is travelling to Berlin at Easter. I may join him, and go to a few other places in east Germany. I am surprised that a number of eastern Germany cities still have Tatras in service. If I stay in Leipzig (which has direct Ryanair flights from London), I could have a day trip to Gotha - I’m intrigued by line 4 which is one of Germany’s last traditional interurbans. They seem to have plenty of Duewags and Tatras in service.

Does anyone know if any of the East German cities plan to get rid of their Tatras this year?

Also, in the Berlin area, I’m wondering if the Schöneiche and Strausberg will have Tatras still in regular service? Particularly the ex-Kosice Tatra at Strausberg.

Not sure, but last time I was in Leipzig in 2019 they still had some Tatra trailers running coupled to modern low-floor trams. I guess that's not quite the same as riding on Tatra driving cars, though, and I don't know if any of those Tatra trailers are still in service.

I know your original query was about places with "classic" trams or buses still in service whose days were numbered, but one place that's well worth a visit where Gotha cars and other heritage trams will probably be around for the foreseeable future is the Kirnitzschtalbahn at Bad Schandau, east of Dresden and close to the Czech border.

 

[30907]

I know your original query was about places with "classic" trams or buses still in service whose days were numbered, but one place that's well worth a visit where Gotha cars and other heritage trams will probably be around for the foreseeable future is the Kirnitzschtalbahn at Bad Schandau, east of Dresden and close to the Czech border.

And talking of Gotha, the town is one of those small East German networks that has hand-me-downs (ex-Erfurt Tatras, also on the Thüringerwaldbahn overland tram) - Halberstadt, Nordhausen, Görlitz possibly also, unless low-floors have reached there now, I'm not upto date.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

While relatively modern in appearance Den Haag's fleet of GTL8s certainly fits the era under discussion. A small number of the first series from 1982-4 may still be in service for a little longer yet while the second series from 1992-3 is largely intact. So older trams can be found without having to travel too far!

 

[D1024]

Tallinn still operates Tatra trams alongside more recent CAF Urbos although for how much longer must be in question with the recent arrival of the first Pesa Twist from an order for 23.

 

[alex397]

Not sure, but last time I was in Leipzig in 2019 they still had some Tatra trailers running coupled to modern low-floor trams. I guess that's not quite the same as riding on Tatra driving cars, though, and I don't know if any of those Tatra trailers are still in service.

Thanks for this info. Thankfully I have been to Leipzig before, on a day trip from Berlin, and managed to tick off a few Tatras. I seem to remember the trailer situation was the other way around on some units - Tatras pulling modern low-floor trailers!

It seems there is still a fairly large fleet of Tatras in service in Leipzig, with photos of some in service dating to Feb '24. I predict they probably come out at peak times only.

I know your original query was about places with "classic" trams or buses still in service whose days were numbered, but one place that's well worth a visit where Gotha cars and other heritage trams will probably be around for the foreseeable future is the Kirnitzschtalbahn at Bad Schandau, east of Dresden and close to the Czech border.

I was hoping i'd fit this tramway in on my Czechia-Germany-Belgium trip last year when I stayed in Dresden. Sadly I just didn't get the time!


I thought i'd share my research about German cities which still have Tatras (and other types) in service. The Transphoto.org website, which has fleetlists of electric bus, trolleybus and tram systems across the world, has been very useful and seems fairly reliable.

Brandenburg-an-der-Havel - still a large fleet of Tatra KT4Ds, mostly modified with a middle low-floor section. Annoyingly I visited here a few years ago, but it was a Sunday with only a half-hourly service with modern types.
Chemnitz - still 5 Tatra T3DM types marked as active, but no photos of them since 2021.
Cottbus - entire regular fleet made up of Tatra KT4D (modernised to KTFN6 with middle low-floor section).
Dessau - nothing 'classic'
Frankfurt (Oder) - large fleet of Tatra KT4D type still in service
Gera - most of fleet made up of Tatra KT4D and variants.
Jena - nothing 'classic'
Naumberg - has that very small line with 1960s stock.
Görlitz - entire regular fleet made up of Tatra KT4DC
Nordhausen - nothing 'classic' still in regular service. All Siemens Combino types.
Potsdam - Tatra KT4D type still in service.
Zwickau - large fleet of KT4DMC in service.

 

[CarrotPie]

Helsinki has a ton of MLNRV I and II trams still in service ftom the 80s (though since refurbished).

 

[Snow1964]

Lausanne (Switzerland) has some trolley buses with 4 wheel trailers, when I was last there they were still using them, I think the trailers date from 1960s and 1970s, although they are behind newer buses.

They might have all gone as some bi-articulated buses have appeared since 2020

 

[Tester]

Lausanne (Switzerland) has some trolley buses with 4 wheel trailers, when I was last there they were still using them, I think the trailers date from 1960s and 1970s, although they are behind newer buses.

They might have all gone as some bi-articulated buses have appeared since 2020

I'm a regular visitor to Lausanne, and haven't seen the trailers for many years.

I'm there again next month and will check out.

 

[class387]

I’m trying to plan a 2024 trip around European cities that have ‘classic’ trams or trolleybuses still in service (or even buses, but ‘classic’ buses are much rarer) that have their days numbered.

I often only find out that a classic type is being withdrawn after they have long gone, so I’m trying not to let that happen this year!

‘Classic’ of course means different things to different people, but I tend to mean types that are pre-millennium, and always like to track down a Tatra tram or a Skoda 14Tr / 15Tr trolleybus.

For example, I’m aware that the Woltersdorf Strassenbahn on the outskirts of Berlin will have their Gotha T57 trams imminently replaced by new Polish built types (EDIT: research suggests May/June 2024), and that Sarajevo will soon have new Swiss trams replacing most if not all of their Tatra trams (and imported Duewags). Poznan has 3 remaining 1960s Duewag trams which come out at peak times, and I can’t imagine will last much longer (EDIT: as of 1st March 2024, three Duewags still come out at peak times, and there are quite a few Konstals that come out too).
Vilnius still surprisingly has a large fleet of Skoda 14Tr types in operation, which I don’t think are due to be withdrawn soon. There are also a couple of 15Tr types still going.
Riga still has Tatra T3s in service too. Again, there doesn’t seem to be a plan to replace them yet.

Are there any other cities which will be worth visiting soon to make the most of classic types? Tatra trams and Skoda trolleybuses tend to be my favourite but I like most things from the 60s-90s era.

I have visited Prague, Brno (Tatras) and Bruxelles (PCCs) recently so probably will avoid that this year.

I have my eye on Kosice, Slovakia which I could tie in with Bratislava.

For something very different Daugavpils still has some Soviet design KTM-5s - though I assume not for very long, as the first four new trams have just entered service.