European Rail Questions

[MCR247]

I am planning a week or something on trains in Europe, but it would be great if you could help me out

1) On which do refurbished TGVs operate?
2) On which routes do the third generation ICE trains operate? (ICE 3, TD, T)
3) Is there any lines you recommend?
4) What are German & French normal intercity trains like?


Thanks in advance

 

[j0hn0]

2) On which routes do the third generation ICE trains operate? (ICE 3, TD, T)
3) Is there any lines you recommend?
4) What are German & French normal intercity trains like?
Thanks in advance

Of the routes that I know, I can answer 2- 4

2) ICE3 generally operate within the environs of the Frankfurt - Koln high speed line as they are the only trains allowed to use that line. Munich - Koln, Amsterdam, Dortmund, Dusseldorf and also Stuttgart, Mannheim, Koln - Brussels. TD from Hannover to Copenhagen via Puttgarden ferry, gordonthemoron will be able to provide more info on the ICE T as I haven't seen one running through Dusseldorf at all.

3 + 4) I recommend the "classic" rhine route on the Intercity train from Koln to Frankfurt - takes about 2 hours, lovely scenery, however, really terribly uncomfortable seats as with most German trains IMO.

Never been on a TGV, only eurostar variant

 

[MCR247]

Thanks j0hn0 thats really helpful

 

[jamesontheroad]

1) On which do refurbished TGVs operate?

The table here might help you work out which fleets are deployed where:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV#Rolling_stock

 

[MCR247]

Thanks

 

[Old Timer]

THe DB travel centre in London should be able to tell you a lot ofd this information as they recently told me (unrequested) that they had organised travel via a specific route because it has the DB ICE train rather than the Thalys.

If you want to speak with them I can recommend it. If you get stuck I can speak with a lady I know there who is always very helpful and certainly knows her European routing.

 

[starrymarkb]

There were loads of ICE-Ts around Leipzig

 

[MCR247]

Thanks Old Timer, I'll try that when they're open

 

[silvermachine]

3) Is there any lines you recommend?

pretty much any of the routes around the alps in france, most of the lines in southern switzerland and austria.

If you are going to Germany Id recommend having a day on the Harz railway (meter gauge steam locos hauling 10 coach trains up to the top of the highest mountain in the old east germany - and serving sausages and beer at the top- a great day out)

4) What are German & French normal intercity trains like?

usually of a high standard, french Corail stock, although getting rather old now, is exceptionally comfortable

Local trains particularly in diesel units France can errmmm have a heritage feel to them.



The great thing about going to look at other countries railways is that you will look at what you are familiar with in a different way when you get back.

 

[gordonthemoron]

2) ICE-Ts are used on Munich-Berlin, Frankfurt-Vienna, Frankfurt-Dresden & Munich-Vienna (although most trains on this route are Railjets).

ICE-TD are used on Berlin/Hamburg-Copenhagen/Aarhus

ICE-3s that I have used run Munich-Nürnberg-Frankfurt-Köln-Dortmund, Munich-Stuttgart-Frankfurt-Köln-Dortmund, Amsterdam-Frankfurt & Brussels-Frankfurt

3) I'd also recommend Harz Steam Railway. I've done Nordhausen-Brocken, but Wernigerode also looks interesting. The reason I went to Nordhausen was to visit the V2 Rocket Factory, which is enormous

4) German normal IC trains are a bit a bit tatty and are due to be replaced

 

[MCR247]

3) Is there any lines you recommend?

pretty much any of the routes around the alps in france, most of the lines in southern switzerland and austria.

If you are going to Germany Id recommend having a day on the Harz railway (meter gauge steam locos hauling 10 coach trains up to the top of the highest mountain in the old east germany - and serving sausages and beer at the top- a great day out)

4) What are German & French normal intercity trains like?

usually of a high standard, french Corail stock, although getting rather old now, is exceptionally comfortable

Local trains particularly in diesel units France can errmmm have a heritage feel to them.



The great thing about going to look at other countries railways is that you will look at what you are familiar with in a different way when you get back.

2) ICE-Ts are used on Munich-Berlin, Frankfurt-Vienna, Frankfurt-Dresden & Munich-Vienna (although most trains on this route are Railjets).

ICE-TD are used on Berlin/Hamburg-Copenhagen/Aarhus

ICE-3s that I have used run Munich-Nürnberg-Frankfurt-Köln-Dortmund, Munich-Stuttgart-Frankfurt-Köln-Dortmund, Amsterdam-Frankfurt & Brussels-Frankfurt

3) I'd also recommend Harz Steam Railway. I've done Nordhausen-Brocken, but Wernigerode also looks interesting. The reason I went to Nordhausen was to visit the V2 Rocket Factory, which is enormous

4) German normal IC trains are a bit a bit tatty and are due to be replaced

Thanks I'll chech out the Harz Steam railway

 

[Nebukan]

3) Is there any lines you recommend?

I recommend the Nice - Cuneo line in the south of France.

It's a small line in mountains run with French and Italian DMU's.

There is also, twice a day, an Italian diesel intercity.

4) What are German & French normal intercity trains like?

Usually, our Intercity use stock carriage, that is true. Today the SNCF are renovating them and, depending to region, they could have a specific livery and interior.

But some Intercity use EMU's or DMU's.

There is also the Teoz Intercity between Paris - Toulouse, Paris - Clermont Ferrand and Bordeaux - Nice.

Most recently, the SNCF decided to use sleeper stock carriages which don't roll a lot during the day between Paris - Toulouse and called this Economic Teoz. I swear that is true.

Maybe I can show you some photos?

 

[Railjet]

........4) German normal IC trains are a bit a bit tatty and are due to be replaced

Very true. On the Italy-Brenner-Munich route, which is operated jointly by German and Austrian Railways (EuroCity but same stock as IC), the Austrian stock is of much better quality than the German stock. Choose your train carefully on this route.

 

[starrymarkb]

I'd recommend the Lötschberg route between Spiez and Brig in Switzerland. Make sure to board the local EMU rather then anything more exotic as the EMU takes the scenic old route through the mountains (climbing to 5000ft in the process) - the loco hauled expresses and pendolinos use the new base tunnel, which while impressive (22 miles long) isn't very scenic.

If you do the Glacier Express, I'd advise getting the locals over the same route. They are usually operated by what I can best describe as an Motor Luggage Van operating push pull with older coaches (with opening windows) rather then the sealed and crowed Express stock.

The Brünig line from Interlaken to Luzern is quite interesting too, though most services are currently loco hauled new units are on order (they will even have a restaurant car if I read correctly).

Other interesting trips are the Jungfrau Railways (BOB, WAB, SPB, MB), various mountain railways linking into a network to serve the valley south of Interlaken and the Pilatus Bahn (the world's steepest rack railway - up to 1 in 2!)

 

[gordonthemoron]

Has anyone done Garmisch-Reutte in Tirol-Kempten?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If you have time in Paris, there are three things of note:

1) Suburban loco haulage is still available on several lines.

2) The declining number of stainless steel EMUs off Paris Nord are worth a quick bash out and back.

3) Another EMU on the way out is the MS67 stock on RER Line A; these have very musical traction equipment indeed - especially try standing near the portal on the eastbound platform at Gare de Lyon ( not right at the edge please! ) and listen to one climbing through the tunnel from Chatelet.

 

[33056]

Has anyone done Garmisch-Reutte in Tirol-Kempten?

Done Garmisch to Reutte a long time ago (it was behind a 139!), but still need Reutte to Kempten , will get round to doing it one day when not whizzing round the Allgäu behind 218s.

For IC and ICE consists look at Fernbahn.de , click on Wagenreihungen DB-Fahrplan 2010 and that will show the train formations including loco type where it is an IC service.

 

[Nebukan]

3) Another EMU on the way out is the MS67 stock on RER Line A; these have very musical traction equipment indeed - especially try standing near the portal on the eastbound platform at Gare de Lyon ( not right at the edge please! ) and listen to one climbing through the tunnel from Chatelet.

They are not on the way out, the RATP is renovating them.
But if you want to see one of them with old livery, you should hurry up.

 

[MCR247]

Thanks everyone, although I'll have trouble fitting all of this in 10 days with my current plans!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

They are not on the way out, the RATP is renovating them.
But if you want to see one of them with old livery, you should hurry up.

The last I heard ( a few months ago ) was that the renovation is more an image thing than long term; apparently there is already an order of new stock in place to replace them with. Not sure of the timespan - I think it's two years or so. I'll have to ask someone; I'm overdue to mail him anyway...



And, I have a feeling I should have said "at Chatelet as they climb from Auber" earlier. Whatever; it's one of those two stations anyway where you get those really good sound effects!

 

[Nebukan]

The MS 67 are one the best stock the ratp has never had, because you can get in and out very fast when there are a lot of people.

The RATP orders new stock for the RER A line. These new trains are called MI 09 and they will replace the MI 82.