Eurostar adds Lyon & Marseille to proposed list of destinations

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brianthegiant

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"Eurostar, the operator of the Channel Tunnel passenger train services, plans to expand its network out of London by adding as many as 10 destinations in four European countries over the next five years"

Cities mentioned are: Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Cologne, Lyon, Marseille and Geneva.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012...me=rbssIndustryMaterialsUtilitiesNews&rpc=401
May 14 (Reuters) - Eurostar, the operator of the Channel Tunnel passenger train services, plans to expand its network out of London by adding as many as 10 destinations in four European countries over the next five years, posing a competitive challenge for airlines.
Eurostar Chief Executive Nicolas Petrovic told the Financial Times newspaper that he aimed to use the creeping liberalisation of European rail markets to launch services across western European cities like Amsterdam in the Netherlands, Frankfurt and Cologne in Germany, Lyon and Marseille in France and Geneva in Switzerland.
"By 2016 and 2017 we would like people when they are thinking about travelling to these cities to consider taking Eurostar rather than flying," Petrovic was quoted as saying in the FT's Monday edition.
In the longer term, Eurostar is looking to set up a second hub, with Brussels the most likely candidate, the FT wrote.

Well, all of these destinations had already been proposed before with the exception of Lyon and Marseilles, which I think are completely new proposals. I've only counted 6 new destinations, not sure what are the other 4 are, press release not yet on E* website. maybe we should ahve a competition to guess the other 4 ;)

No doubt this will also stimulate a new tranche of speculation on here as to which routes will be run with travelling border controls a la skitrain/avignon and which ones will see UK border outposts at stations :)
 
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Peter Mugridge

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Lyon and Marseille would surely be served by the same workings as each other?

Also Köln and Frankfurt? Probably as extensions of Bruxelles*?



*Reverse at Bruxelles and run via Cureghem Jct, Pannenhuis Jct and Zennebrug Jct to Scharbeek then to the high speed line in the normal way. Ditto for Amsterdam as a Bruxelles extension...
 

MCR247

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Wasn't this pretty much announced at the same time as the E320?
 

radamfi

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What about the immigration problems? Based on the Brussels experience, where it is no longer allowed to travel from Brussels to Lille, Eurostar will end up running pick up only towards the UK, so no traffic from Marseille to Lille for example. That might make the service not viable.
 

W-on-Sea

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Eurostar sent out a survey by email about this quite recently, explaining that if they did run trains south of Paris, passengers heading to the UK would have to change trains at Gare du Nord, which is where the security/passport checks would take place

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Eurostar sent out a survey by email about this quite recently, explaining that if they did run trains south of Paris, passengers heading to the UK would have to change trains at Gare du Nord, which is where the security/passport checks would take place

Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk

Makes sense, but defeats the point of Eurostar running elsewhere then. I imagine people want to board at Lyon (for instance) show their passport and stay on the train to London rather than having to change trains - especially if they have luggage. I can't imagine that is a popular idea.
 

JGR

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Eurostar sent out a survey by email about this quite recently, explaining that if they did run trains south of Paris, passengers heading to the UK would have to change trains at Gare du Nord, which is where the security/passport checks would take place

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Will Eurostar be running their own dedicated trains, or is this just a mechanism for booking SNCF/etc seats from Gare du Nord/Est/Lyon together with the journey to/from London?

This seems a bit odd to me, when some Eurostar services already go south of Paris without needing a change, albeit it by bypassing it (the ones to Bourg-Saint-Maurice).
 

radamfi

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Eurostar sent out a survey by email about this quite recently, explaining that if they did run trains south of Paris, passengers heading to the UK would have to change trains at Gare du Nord, which is where the security/passport checks would take place

It is already possible to make a journey from Marseille and Lyon to London changing at Lille. Not sure how changing at Gare du Nord improves things.
 

HSTEd

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Surely changing at Gare Du Nord would be slower than changing at Lille due to having to turn around and crawl back south into the station rather than heading north to change at Lille.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Lyon and Marseille would surely be served by the same workings as each other?

Also Köln and Frankfurt? Probably as extensions of Bruxelles*?



*Reverse at Bruxelles and run via Cureghem Jct, Pannenhuis Jct and Zennebrug Jct to Scharbeek then to the high speed line in the normal way. Ditto for Amsterdam as a Bruxelles extension...

Lyon and Marseille would surely be served by the same workings as each other?

That makes sense as well as combining these with the Avignon service.
 

VTPreston_Tez

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Eurostar sent out a survey by email about this quite recently, explaining that if they did run trains south of Paris, passengers heading to the UK would have to change trains at Gare du Nord, which is where the security/passport checks would take place

Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk

Is this what happens on the ski services and Avignon services?
 

W-on-Sea

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Is this what happens on the ski services and Avignon services?


No, and the station in Avignon town (as opposed to the TGV station outside the town) has a small passport/security office, which is (a) unobstrusive and (b) only open on the rare and seasonal occasions that a Eurostar is there.
 

button_boxer

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I've only counted 6 new destinations, not sure what are the other 4 are, press release not yet on E* website. maybe we should ahve a competition to guess the other 4 ;)

Probably a marketing trick of including the intermediate stops like Liège and Aachen on the Köln/Frankfurt route, etc.
 

cle

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Probably a marketing trick of including the intermediate stops like Liège and Aachen on the Köln/Frankfurt route, etc.

Exactly. Liege and Aachen I'm not sure about as they're not big news over here, but could be big for London-bound traffic. Skipping them would give E* better journey times than Thalys/DB though! :D

The obvious two big ones are Rotterdam and Antwerp. Schipol probably not worth it, as CDG isn't today (Disney/Avignon/Ski could stop but don't).

If not, possibly Aix en Provence might be popular?

Security - probably roving officers and cordoned off platforms. Not sure how via Gare du Nord would help anything. They need to invest, as at Avignon.

Surely the Avignon operation could be expanded to a regional office, and staff based there could cover Marseillie and Aix trains too.
 

eps200

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Surely there are less stations on the UK side? why not cordon off the whole lot over here and effectively have HS1 in shcengen (sp) you do boarder controls at the station if you fail back on the next train?
The only issue i see is UK to UK travel but thats going to be an issue on one end or the other.
 

NY Yankee

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"Eurostar, the operator of the Channel Tunnel passenger train services, plans to expand its network out of London by adding as many as 10 destinations in four European countries over the next five years"

Cities mentioned are: Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Cologne, Lyon, Marseille and Geneva.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012...me=rbssIndustryMaterialsUtilitiesNews&rpc=401

Well, all of these destinations had already been proposed before with the exception of Lyon and Marseilles, which I think are completely new proposals. I've only counted 6 new destinations, not sure what are the other 4 are, press release not yet on E* website. maybe we should ahve a competition to guess the other 4 ;)

No doubt this will also stimulate a new tranche of speculation on here as to which routes will be run with travelling border controls a la skitrain/avignon and which ones will see UK border outposts at stations :)

I realise that the UK likes to isolate itself from the rest of Europe, but it would be nice if all of the European rail systems were integrated. A person should be able to travel from London to Rome or Athens without changing trains.
 

eps200

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Domestic (UK) travel is not permitted on Eurostar anyway.

I wasn't aware of that. So surely that means there is no downside. Just heavily fine anyone who has the wrong documents. If there is CCTV at every station we can see where they came from.

That way it would be a European network with a UK spur seems that would be of more use than what exists now.
 

cle

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It's like that now - the problem is in-bound. So we'd have passport control at arrivals at St Pancras (and Ebbsfleet/Ashford) which removes a key benefit as opposed to flying.
 

jon0844

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There's enough room for decent staffing of passport checks at St Pancras, and I don't think that checks upon arrival would be a bad thing if it didn't take too long.

If this allowed a lot more journeys to be made possible to/from Europe, I'd accept a short delay but not tolerate Heathrow/Stansted style queues. Ultimately, I'd like to see us become part of the Schengen agreement - but I wouldn't want us to be restricted on travel waiting for that to happen.
 

Rhydgaled

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It's like that now - the problem is in-bound. So we'd have passport control at arrivals at St Pancras (and Ebbsfleet/Ashford) which removes a key benefit as opposed to flying.
I think the suggestiong was there would be passport control for arrivals and departures at St. Pancras, Ebbsfleet and Ashford, but nothing of the sort at any of the stations Eurostar serves on the other side of the channel.
 

jon0844

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It's such a shame we ditched IRIS as a few of these at St Pancras (and maintained so they were actually on!) would be fine for me - and many others who registered.

IRIS, when the booths were working, worked brilliantly - and was very well liked by foreign visitors who had registered (with the necessary visas if required) and saved loads of time avoiding the international/non-EU passport queues.
 

cle

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Fine except for two issues - no documentation of people until arrival, somebody could blow up the tunnel etc.... but more realistically; a lot of asylum claims and the like upon arrival on UK soil - no filters.
 

jon0844

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One reason for checking before getting onto British soil was to try and stop asylum seekers. This 'benefit' would be lost I suppose.

Passport control has nothing to do with security clearance, which would still be done before boarding.

How easy would it be to blow up the tunnel with a carry on bomb anyway? Damage the train, yes, but anything more than that?
 

cle

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I have no bloody idea. But you could certainly cause some carnage.

And yes this could happen on the tube every day, but as a political and symbolic target, I imagine the Channel Tunnel would be quite high on the list.
 

ainsworth74

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How easy would it be to blow up the tunnel with a carry on bomb anyway? Damage the train, yes, but anything more than that?

Well how much damage did the July 2005 bombs do to the tunnels of the tube? I'd guess it would have to be one hell of a charge to do any real damage, explosions like to take the path of least resistance which would be to travel along the tunnel not punch through it. I'm not saying the tunnel would be undamaged but I wouldn't expect significant damage (unless you're setting off a really big bomb).
 

jon0844

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A really big bomb would surely need a really big suitcase, or some planning to have more than one bomb carried on by multiple people.

I'd hope and expect such things to be detected by the security check pre-boarding.

To be honest, I've always thought of the Channel Tunnel as being fairly low risk as there's security checks for rail (and road/rail) traffic. Something that didn't apply to the tube.
 

WestCoast

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Fine except for two issues - no documentation of people until arrival, somebody could blow up the tunnel etc.... but more realistically; a lot of asylum claims and the like upon arrival on UK soil - no filters.

Security checks are present to address that concern, although I would say it's debatable that the Channel Tunnel is a top threat for various political reasons.

As for asylum, well don't forget that anyone arriving by aircraft or ferry is checked on arrival and that constitutes the majority of people arriving in the country. Under law, a claim can be lodged at the immigration desk. Anyone arriving in the UK by train is almost certainly an economic migrant anyway, since EU law states that you must submit a claim in the first EU country entered - you can't pick and choose!

The airlines submit passenger data to the authorities, so I don't see why Eurostar (and maybe DB in the future) couldn't do the same. You could also install those automatic passport gates for EU biometric passports, to make processing faster.
 
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