Eurostar cancel their direct summer services to Lyon, Avignon and Marseilles in 2020 AND 2021

[Mikey C]

Jet2 and Eurostar cut summer flights and trains

The travel firms blame service cuts on falling demand and difficulties implementing protection measures.

www.bbc.co.uk

Eurostar is cutting direct services to three French cities due to lack of demand and difficulties implementing protection measures on long journeys.

Eurostar said: "As we restart our service, we are focusing our timetable on our routes between capital cities, which have the highest demand from customers at the moment and shorter journey times."

The company said its services were operating with restrictions on food service, the compulsory wearing of masks, significantly increased hygiene measures and high-frequency cleaning.

Eurostar's direct summer services to Lyon, Avignon and Marseilles, which were meant to start in May, will no longer be run at all in 2020 or 2021.

Instead, the rail company will focus on its main routes between London, Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam.

Not surprised they're no running those services this year, but cancelling next year's already is more surprising

 

[popeter45]

my thinking is they predict less people will plan for overseas holidays next year for fear of last minute flare-ups

 

[30907]

Wonder if they are expecting demand still to be suppressed next year - the northbound train IIRC is only loaded to 50% because of lack of space at Lille for screening, so can't be over-profitable.
I know I would consider taking my own car to France ATM rather than having a rail-drive holiday (which I presume a lot of the customers opt for).

 

[trebor79]

Wonder if they are expecting demand still to be suppressed next year - the northbound train IIRC is only loaded to 50% because of lack of space at Lille for screening, so can't be over-profitable.
I know I would consider taking my own car to France ATM rather than having a rail-drive holiday (which I presume a lot of the customers opt for).

Why?
I'd happily take the train. It's much more pleasurable than driving and hardly anyone has COVID and simple precautions reduce your risk even if someone on the train is infected.
The only thing putting me off train travel at the moment is the requirement to wear stupid face masks.

 

[alex397]

Such a shame to hear this.

I caught the Marseille train last summer, from Ashford. It seems quite incredible that you can catch a train direct from the UK to the Mediterranean. I remember it was a busy train, but emptied out quite a bit at Avignon, meaning there were just 2 other people in my carriage to Marseille. It was also on an unrefurbished Class 373 which was most pleasing, as it was the final time I had a ride on these.

i don’t think it was well advertised - I wasn’t aware of this service until I looked at the Man in Seat 61 website, and all my friends, family and work colleagues I told about this journey had no idea you could get a train direct to the Mediterranean (and there’s also many people I meet who don’t actually know there are Eurostars from Ashford! )

I hope this does return, but who knows. I must say, I’m also worried about the future of Ashford International, but I think it’s unlikely that will close. But again, who knows!

 

[AlbertBeale]

Such a shame to hear this.

I caught the Marseille train last summer, from Ashford. It seems quite incredible that you can catch a train direct from the UK to the Mediterranean. I remember it was a busy train, but emptied out quite a bit at Avignon, meaning there were just 2 other people in my carriage to Marseille. It was also on an unrefurbished Class 373 which was most pleasing, as it was the final time I had a ride on these.

i don’t think it was well advertised - I wasn’t aware of this service until I looked at the Man in Seat 61 website, and all my friends, family and work colleagues I told about this journey had no idea you could get a train direct to the Mediterranean (and there’s also many people I meet who don’t actually know there are Eurostars from Ashford! )

I hope this does return, but who knows. I must say, I’m also worried about the future of Ashford International, but I think it’s unlikely that will close. But again, who knows!

Yes - when I used the London-Marseilles service, I found that everyone I mentioned it to (apart from one train buff) was surprised to hear that such a service existed. No-one had ever heard of it.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

It is a shame to hear this, I can understand for this year. The only draw back is that is did have an early start from London and a late arrival back at STP also having to get off at Lille for security, how come the ski trains don't have to do that?. Perhaps it will return for 2022

 

[AlbertBeale]

It is a shame to hear this, I can understand for this year. The only draw back is that is did have an early start from London and a late arrival back at STP also having to get off at Lille for security, how come the ski trains don't have to do that?. Perhaps it will return for 2020

Yes - the Lille problem... though I've only ever used it southbound, returning another way!

I believe the handful of direct ski trains have temporary "border" screening set up at a couple of the stations they leave from on the return.

British government unwillingness to countenance on-train passport and security checks, as has been European practice for generations, is a real pain. If they're worried about people who don't have the right paperwork to enter the country actually being here by the time it's discovered (with the problem of the legalities of subsequent removal), presumably there could be a scheduled (but not for passengers) stop just before leaving France. All checks would be done on board after the last passenger stop, but before this extra stop, so any irregularities could be dealt with by people leaving the train then. A fairly short delay at that point would be better than people getting off and on again, as now, at Lille. Short border delays are still common in Europe, and the time taken - relative to the time of a long journey - isn't much.

 

[Chester1]

Eurostar website only mentions this summer. I can't find a reference anywhere apart from BBC that next summer has been cancelled.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Yes - the Lille problem... though I've only ever used it southbound, returning another way!

I believe the handful of direct ski trains have temporary "border" screening set up at a couple of the stations they leave from on the return.

British government unwillingness to countenance on-train passport and security checks, as has been European practice for generations, is a real pain. If they're worried about people who don't have the right paperwork to enter the country actually being here by the time it's discovered (with the problem of the legalities of subsequent removal), presumably there could be a scheduled (but not for passengers) stop just before leaving France. All checks would be done on board after the last passenger stop, but before this extra stop, so any irregularities could be dealt with by people leaving the train then. A fairly short delay at that point would be better than people getting off and on again, as now, at Lille. Short border delays are still common in Europe, and the time taken - relative to the time of a long journey - isn't much.

Yes, if the ski trains have set up temporary "border" screening at a couple of the stations they leave from on the return journey on what is only 1 twice weekly service and can cope with all the extra luggage that skiers need, then it does seem strange that they can not do this on the south of France service which operates on a more frequent basis in the peak of the summer season-normally. That, along with on train checks and a shorter tech stop as mentioned above would improve the overall travel experience. Maybe slightly improving the departure/arrival times at London.

 

[30907]

Why?
I'd happily take the train. It's much more pleasurable than driving and hardly anyone has COVID and simple precautions reduce your risk even if someone on the train is infected.

I specifically said "rather than a rail-drive holiday" - we were in fact due to head for the Cevennes next Tuesday, and the drive would have been part of the holiday - certainly once past Zeebrugge!
There are convenience factors such as baggage/wine transport here, which for a full length holiday tips the balance.
If we didn't need a car at the other end it would be different...

 

[newmilton]

A tangential issue, which may be covered elsewhere: apologies if so.

My wife was due to take this service to Avignon in August, where she teaches in a summer music school. The school was cancelled a couple of months ago, so E* cancelling the trains means at least she won't be out of pocket as she might have been had they run.

That being said, she has been offered the inevitable vouchers by way of compensation, which are of no use to her. What is the simplest way of getting a proper refund?

(I also have tickets booked to Lille on trains I suspect will not run, but I am hoping E* will automatically rebook me on another service, as some trains clearly are running; but I'm happy to wait and see.)

Many thanks.

 

[joncombe]

Eurostar website only mentions this summer. I can't find a reference anywhere apart from BBC that next summer has been cancelled.

Not sure about the website but since I was booked on this train I got an email about it from Eurostar yesterday. It confirms it's also not running next year. I have quote the relevant part below.

Hello,

We’re really sorry to tell you that we’ll no longer be running our direct summer trains to Lyon and the South of France for the rest of 2020 and 2021. This was a hard decision for us to make and one we made with a heavy heart.

Boarding this train marked the beginning of an eagerly anticipated summer holiday for many of our passengers and the atmosphere on the way was always a very special one. We appreciate that this news will be disappointing as you have a booking on this route in the near future. Although we can’t take you there directly, you can still get to Lyon, Avignon and Marseille by taking a Eurostar train to Lille or Paris and changing on to a connecting TGV train. Connections are frequent and available all year round.

We’re making lots of changes to our services in the wake of the coronavirus crisis to help protect our customers and colleagues. And right now, we’re focusing on ensuring we can deliver the best possible service in the current circumstances on our busiest routes.

They go onto to suggest changing in Paris or Lille though at the moment there are NO Eurostar trains to Lille either. Maybe there will be by then, but it's a risk to re-book only to have plans disrupted again. I will probably cancel and ask for a refund (for the 2nd time this year from Eurostar), possibly fly instead or not go at all. A real shame as I'd never done the trip before and was looking forward to it. But fun things and 2020 don't seem to be good companions.

 

[Peter Kelford]

It is a shame to hear this, I can understand for this year. The only draw back is that is did have an early start from London and a late arrival back at STP also having to get off at Lille for security, how come the ski trains don't have to do that?. Perhaps it will return for 2022

The alpine stations were heavily remodelled in the 1990s for the Albertville Olympics which in the case of Bourg-Saint-Maurice liberated the old BV. More importantly, the stations not being in a dense city centre have space around them.

 

[peteb]

Maybe if Eurostar are going to suspend this service till 2022 they ought to review the timing out and back of the single set in use. A just after 7am departure from London effectively excludes anyone from outside London, whereas a 9am departure would be far more usable for those of us from the North. However that would have a knock-on impact on the return journey, unless the train is turned round at Avignon. There is a very frequent service onwards from there to Marseille, also Nimes, Montpellier, Perpignan etc. As it stands the only practical way for 2021 would appear to be to change at Lille once those services are reinstated. But the costs will escalate, as Eurostar fares seem incredibly cheap on the Marseille train compared to Paris or Lille then SNCF add on fares.

 

[Bald Rick]

A tangential issue, which may be covered elsewhere: apologies if so.

My wife was due to take this service to Avignon in August, where she teaches in a summer music school. The school was cancelled a couple of months ago, so E* cancelling the trains means at least she won't be out of pocket as she might have been had they run.

That being said, she has been offered the inevitable vouchers by way of compensation, which are of no use to her. What is the simplest way of getting a proper refund?

(I also have tickets booked to Lille on trains I suspect will not run, but I am hoping E* will automatically rebook me on another service, as some trains clearly are running; but I'm happy to wait and see.)

Many thanks.

Under current arrangements, she won’t be ab,e to claim a refund until she hears officially from Eurostar that the train (and her booking) is cancelled. Typically this is three days before departure, by text. Then she will be able to claim a refund as per the Eurostar Ts and Cs, but unless it is a flexible ticket expect them to offer the voucher first; you will need to push for a refund.

This has been my experience.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

The passenger has a right to a refund for a cancelled train, by virtue of the EU Passenger Rights Regulation. ES have been very naughty and tried to deter people from claiming this by offering vouchers instead. This conserves their cash and is effectively being condoned by the various regulators involved. But the Regulation is there to protect passengers so you should insist on a refund if that's what you want.

 

[Ian99]

............ hardly anyone has COVID and simple precautions reduce your risk even if someone on the train is infected.
The only thing putting me off train travel at the moment is the requirement to wear stupid face masks.

I don't share that view and I expect that many others do not either but we will see how long that lasts. It's all down to how willing one is to take risks I suppose. Bearing in mind that masks are about protecting others not the wearer, I personally would be wary about sitting on a train next to someone without a mask who thought hardly anyone has Covid.

 

[popeter45]

thinking about the ski night train was wondering what route it takes?
in another thread somebody said LGV lines close at night so wonder what route it takes instead?

 

[Bald Rick]

thinking about the ski night train was wondering what route it takes?
in another thread somebody said LGV lines close at night so wonder what route it takes instead?

It’s early enough to get to Paris on the LGV Nord (indeed, there’s a Paris Eurostar behind it). It then goes the clsssic PLM route to Lyon, then to Chambery and Albertiville. Going round Paris, I don’t know if it goes via the Grand Ceinture, or round the interconnection and picks up the PLM at Valenton. I suspect the former.

 

[Chester1]

Yes - the Lille problem... though I've only ever used it southbound, returning another way!

I believe the handful of direct ski trains have temporary "border" screening set up at a couple of the stations they leave from on the return.

British government unwillingness to countenance on-train passport and security checks, as has been European practice for generations, is a real pain. If they're worried about people who don't have the right paperwork to enter the country actually being here by the time it's discovered (with the problem of the legalities of subsequent removal), presumably there could be a scheduled (but not for passengers) stop just before leaving France. All checks would be done on board after the last passenger stop, but before this extra stop, so any irregularities could be dealt with by people leaving the train then. A fairly short delay at that point would be better than people getting off and on again, as now, at Lille. Short border delays are still common in Europe, and the time taken - relative to the time of a long journey - isn't much.

This could be a game changer that ensures the return of the service in 2022:

Biometrics will be trialled on Eurostar from March 2021 – Business Traveller

Rail passengers using Eurostar services from London St Pancras will be permitted to board via a walk-through system…

www.businesstraveller.com

Biometrics will be trialled on Eurostar from March 2021, allowing rail passengers using Eurostar services from London St Pancras to board via a walk-through system.
The technology has been developed as part of a National competition run by The Department for Transport, in partnership with Innovate UK which awards £9.4 million funding “to innovative projects that will make railways cleaner, greener and more passenger-friendly”.

The biometric technology will be incentivised to passengers on the basis of experiencing “an accelerated pre-boarding option” as ticket checks and border exit processes would have been completed without needing to come into contact with people or hardware.

Prior to travelling, passengers wanting to use the service would use the Eurostar app to scan their identity documentation. The facial biometric technology, by iProov, uses “patented controlled illumination to authenticate the identity of the user against the ID document” via the Eurostar app. Once a user submits a photo of their identity document , they are prompted to position their face correctly by holding their mobile phone in front of their face. Following a short sequence of flashing colours, the user’s identification will be verified.

As well as checking that the user is the right person, matching the identity portrayed in the passport, the illumination process checks that the user is a real person, rather than a photo, video, or mask, and, uniquely, that the user is authenticating right now.

The passenger would then receive a message confirming that their identity document had been secured and a ticket or passport would not need to be shown again until they reached their destination. On arrival at St Pancras International, the passenger would enter the contactless travel corridor and proceed in distanced fashion before boarding the train.

A kiosk solution at the station would allow passengers without access to smartphones to complete the same process.

Biometrics are being used more widely for travel, particularly at airports.

Other biometric schemes include Emirates’ ‘smart tunnel’, Heathrow’s £50 million investment in an end-to-end project and Gatwick’s partnership with Easyjet.
The iProov solution will be developed in close partnership with Eurostar, the UK’s only operator of high-speed rail services, and with Canadian travel and immigration solution specialists WorldReach Software. It is planned to be in live operation by March 2021.

The First of a Kind (FOAK) competition is run by Innovate UK and funded by the Department for Transport. The initiative supports research, development and innovation in the UK rail industry.
Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said: “I am delighted to announce the winners of this year’s First of a Kind competition, which will support better, more environmentally friendly journeys. Crucially, these pioneering projects will also ensure that passengers have a more efficient, reliable and responsive railway, making their journeys simpler and easier.”
Ian Campbell, Executive Chair of Innovate UK, said: “These high-quality projects illustrate the appetite of UK organisations to develop new and exciting innovations for rail transport that improve customers’ user experience, that optimise railway efficiency, and are environmentally sustainable.”

Gareth Williams, Strategy Director and Company Secretary at Eurostar, said: “We are very pleased to be working with iProov on this important innovation. We’re convinced it will enhance our passenger experience and offer a live illustration of how innovation can benefit the high-speed rail and international transport industries.”

@Bald Rick will correct me if I am wrong but I think he said that Marseille to London services cannot be filled to capacity because of the difficulty to getting everyone through Lille (which does not have the same border capacity as London, Paris or Brussels). If the trial is successful and was rolled out to the Southern France service it might allow full loadings with the normal 1 hour 15 minute stop or maybe even reduce it.

The technology has been used very successfully on the EU Settlement scheme and meant that the majority of people have been able to receive settled or pre settled status without needing to attend an appointment. A phone needs an NFC chip to read a passport and they are not universal for smartphones yet. They are designed for contactless payment. Apple doesn't allow third party apps to use the NFC chip so this trial is likely for Android phones only. Supposedly its for security but it also gives Apple Pay a monopoly on iphones.

 

[Bald Rick]

@Bald Rick will correct me if I am wrong but I think he said that Marseille to London services cannot be filled to capacity because of the difficulty to getting everyone through Lille (which does not have the same border capacity as London, Paris or Brussels). If the trial is successful and was rolled out to the Southern France service it might allow full loadings with the normal 1 hour 15 minute stop or maybe even reduce it.

No idea I’m afraid!

 

[Peter Kelford]

thinking about the ski night train was wondering what route it takes?
in another thread somebody said LGV lines close at night so wonder what route it takes instead?

It takes the existing lines normally. Regarding which bypass line it uses, see this thread:

Eurostar Ski Train, which route does it take?

Apologies if there is a thread about this already. I'm travelling on the Eurostar Ski train in January, the overnight one out and the day one back. Does anyone know which route it takes after it exits the tunnel? I know it goes through Lille, Disneyland Paris onto LGV Sud Est but where does it...

www.railforums.co.uk

@Bald Rick will correct me if I am wrong but I think he said that Marseille to London services cannot be filled to capacity because of the difficulty to getting everyone through Lille (which does not have the same border capacity as London, Paris or Brussels).

Well Brussels' capacity is vastly inferior to Paris, in turn inferior to London.

 

[nlogax]

Last time I did the Bourg St Maurice ski train was about a decade ago, if I recall correctly there was security at that end before the evening return to St Pancras. Real shame it's going, it was a very pleasant and hassle-free way to get to Val d'Isère without all the airport and connection faff.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Have I missed something, are the Eurostar London to France ski trains also not happening this coming winter too?

 

[30907]

Have I missed something, are the Eurostar London to France ski trains also not happening this coming winter too?

Correct

 

[Peter Kelford]

Have I missed something, are the Eurostar London to France ski trains also not happening this coming winter too?

Hardly surprising to be fair.

The security facilities and Bourg and Moûtiers-Salins are basic to say the least and there is nothing in the way of a passport check save a summary wave of one's passport at the on-board crew who do ticket checks. The check-in booth is also tiny so there is no way the sensible social distancing could be respected. So Brexit and Coronavirus seem to have caused this collectively.

 

[Chester1]

Hardly surprising to be fair.

The security facilities and Bourg and Moûtiers-Salins are basic to say the least and there is nothing in the way of a passport check save a summary wave of one's passport at the on-board crew who do ticket checks. The check-in booth is also tiny so there is no way the sensible social distancing could be respected. So Brexit and Coronavirus seem to have caused this collectively.

The end of the transition doesn't really affect border formalities entering the UK. The switch from EEA/EU citizens and all other passports queues to can and can't use E gates has already taken place at most entry points. If anything the introduction of electronic travel authorisation (like US ESTA) will speed up things and at passport control, especially if the biometrics trial is successful. I doubt ETA will be ready early next year.

I suspect they could run at least one ski service and stop at Lille to enable social distancing but it's not worth the risk that they might have to cancel them all. The seasonal services are nice bonus revenue and they appear to be focusing on core services until the pandemic is over.

 

[Ianno87]

The end of the transition doesn't really affect border formalities entering the UK. The switch from EEA/EU citizens and all other passports queues to can and can't use E gates has already taken place at most entry points. If anything the introduction of electronic travel authorisation (like US ESTA) will speed up things and at passport control, especially if the biometrics trial is successful. I doubt ETA will be ready early next year.

I suspect they could run at least one ski service and stop at Lille to enable social distancing but it's not worth the risk that they might have to cancel them all. The seasonal services are nice bonus revenue and they appear to be focusing on core services until the pandemic is over.

The Lille shuffle can't be quite so appealing when you've got to take all your ski equipment off and back on the train with you!

 

[Mikey C]

With all the talk of a second wave of Covid this winter, they might be anticipating future lockdowns as well...