Eurostar Direct St Pancras to Amsterdam

Discussion in 'International Transport' started by parkender102, 13 Oct 2016.

  1. Joe Paxton

    Joe Paxton Established Member

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    To be fair the terminology used by the government is "exit checks", but I agree they are a data gathering exercise.
     
  2. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    This picture below is an artist impression how the checkinbuilding in Amsterdam and Rotterdam will look like. How it will look in Schiphol is not known. The platforms are too narrow there. During the time of starting the control untill departure to London the platform is not used for other trains. Building in Amsterdam 600 square meters and in Rotterdam 400.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. AlexNL

    AlexNL Established Member

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    According to OV-magazine, passengers from Schiphol would have to alight at Brussels and go through security there, along with the people who board at Brussels. For this purpose the Eurostar sets would be divided, people who board in Amsterdam and Rotterdam travel in one part of the train while passengers from Schiphol travel in the other.
     
  4. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    Indeed i have it also from OV Magazine. I would say skip Schiphol. So passengers traveling from Amsterdam and Rotterdam could also be checked in Brussel. That of Schiphol thing; it is only an idea.
     
  5. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Having recently travelled from London to The Netherlands, I think it's a great idea to have direct services. Sadly, I doubt they'll be as comfortable as the compartment carriage I caught from Rotterdam to Brussels.

    Honestly, as long as the price is right for passengers, it will go down a storm.
     
  6. 33Hz

    33Hz Member

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    So if I board in Rotterdam or Amsterdam CS, not only do I have to turn up early for check in, I suffer an extended stop in Brussels while Schiphol passengers de-train and join the security queue.

    This whole thing sounds like a bit of a farce. I don't see the advantage over just taking the more frequent Thalys and enjoying a beer after check in at Brussels.
     
  7. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    So passengers getting on board in Amsterdam and Rotterdam have to get early for all inspections, while passengers boarding at Schiphol can get on board directly before departure. And have the inspection in Brussel. I say skip Schiphol. People from Schiphol can always go with the IC Direct to and from Rotterdam. The timedifference between Thalys and IC Direct is 6 minutes between Schiphol and Rotterdam with 4 IC Direct trains an hour. Always good connections!
     
  8. BahrainLad

    BahrainLad Member

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    The stop in Brussels on the return is 20 minutes, which is presumably enough time for a small number (i.e. Schiphol passengers only) to disembark and go through formalities and then board again. If all Dutch passengers had to do so it would be longer than 20 minutes.

    Clearly it's all more convenient on the outbound London-Amsterdam but a train that goes out must come back and even the return saves 40 minutes on the current fastest timetables journey, including removing all the hassle of having to go through formalities mid-journey. If they're trying to appeal to business travellers the current 4h journey with 45 minutes of down-time in the middle isn't ideal.
     
  9. GingerSte

    GingerSte Member

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    The advantage is you're already in your seat, not worrying about connecting trains (I know alternatives are provided, but it's still a pain). You can enjoy your beer there, and continue with your movie/reading/working, without having to schlep your luggage around Brussels Midi.

    According to the article, approximately 70% of the patronage is expected from Amsterdam Centraal, so they are not expecting large numbers from Schiphol (or Rotterdam, or presumably Antwerp). Depending on the numbers, I can see two possible scenarios:
    1. Security and border control at Brussels can handle the few passengers from Schiphol in the 20 minute turnaround (maybe keeping a channel ready for these). Everything would be done to optimise this - having Schiphol-UK passengers in the closest carriage to any stairs, etc.
    2. If Brussels can't handle it, I imagine that Schiphol to the UK wouldn't be advertised as a direct service. Rather, it would be advertised as far as Brussels only (presumably Brussels is better placed to deal with all this than Lille), and treated as a connecting service. Passengers would have to wait for the next service from Brussels. It's not perfect, but the inconvenience to other passengers is minimised.
     
  10. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    If 1 or 150 board in Schiphol; arrival and departure will be the same in Brussel. One again skip Schiphol!
     
  11. AlexNL

    AlexNL Established Member

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    By having the Eurostar call at Schiphol it can also serve the wider Amsterdam - Belgium market, passengers who want to travel from the Netherlands to Belgium can then also do so by Eurostar. While the Schiphol - London leg might not be as interesting (if you're at Schiphol, might as well take the plane) there certainly is a market for the wider Amsterdam area - Brussels leg.
     
  12. paddington

    paddington Member

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    Hmm, are there any more paths to add a Eurostar service? Anyway it will probably be rather expensive too

    If you don't want to pay for Thalys, you are limited to the hourly IC service and the much slower stopping service Antwerp/Puurs to Roosendaal which can connect to Zwolle/Vlissingen services

    Not sure why I have ended up travelling on this route so often but I seem to be waiting at Antwerp for 30+ minutes quite frequently
     
  13. AlexNL

    AlexNL Established Member

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    Right now, there are 13 Thalys trains per day from Amsterdam towards Belgium and France. According to information shared with the Belgian rail regulator Eurostar is aiming for a morning and an afternoon departure, about 30 minutes after the Thalys.

    The afternoon departures will be interesting to business people, as those allow them to leave the office in Amsterdam at a decent time (5 o'clock) and be in Brussels by 6:30. At that time there is no corresponding Thalys train: one leaves at 4, the next one leaves at 6.
     
  14. bspahh

    bspahh Member

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    I'd far rather have a Eurostar that leaves at Amsterdam 7, and Brussels at 9.15, that gets me to London by 10.30. That then lets me get home by train after a working day in a lot more of Northern Europe than is currently possible.
     
  15. 33Hz

    33Hz Member

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    That's not true. There's a Thalys leaving Amsterdam Centraal at 17:17, Schiphol at 17:34. It connects with the last Eurostar to London at 19:52.

    The proposed Eurostar time is 16:48 from Centraal with additional security formalities or 17:04 from Schiphol. It's too early. I wouldn't get away with leaving the office in time to catch it and I suspect many others will be in the same boat - or should I say plane.

    I will be very angry if this also replaces the last Eurostar from Brussels with this earlier departure.
     
  16. AlexNL

    AlexNL Established Member

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    Ah, right. The 17:17 Thalys doesn't seem to run on Mondays (I only looked at the departures for that day).
     
  17. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    Than one is forced this schedule.

    Amsterdam 17.17 - Brussel 19.08
    Brussel 19.17 - Lille 19.52
    Lille 20.30 - London 21.03
     
  18. U-Bahnfreund

    U-Bahnfreund Member

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    Treinreiziger.nl reports that Schiphol will not be an eurostar station.

     
    Last edited: 23 May 2017
  19. 33Hz

    33Hz Member

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    The DB timetable will show you that option, but in fact it's the same first and last train as what I described above. I've no idea why they think two changes are better.
     
  20. 33Hz

    33Hz Member

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    Or I fear take the plane.

    A lot of people will not take connecting trains. If they would, they'd already be happy with the combined Thalys/Eurostar offer we have today.
     
  21. hungry

    hungry Member

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    Yes I can't understand it. It's an hour or so when I flew LCY-AMS with BA! What's the benefit of the train?
     
  22. Greenback

    Greenback Emeritus Moderator

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    Some people just don't like flying. Some dislike all the hassles of security, luggage allowances, restrictions on liquids and all of that stuff. Some just like trains!

    Speed isn't everything to everyone. There's also comfort, convenience and enjoyment to think about. Still, I'd think that most travellers fly, but not all of them.
     
  23. paddington

    paddington Member

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    All good reasons to take the train over the plane, but not necessarily good reasons to introduce a train service in competition to flights.

    I suppose Eurostar must believe there is a business case otherwise they wouldn't do it. I wonder if the the predicted reduction in UK to European mainland business travel from Brexit has spurred them to take a punt on this before the UK leaves the EU.
     
  24. duesselmartin

    duesselmartin Member

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    I am always amazed how many London Spezial people are in the ICE from Cologne. I assume the same potential is there in the Netherlands, esp. with British people also more likely to visit Amsterdam.
     
  25. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    I went to Berlin for the day yesterday. 5am pick up in a taxi to Gatwick (from Hatfield), arrived 6.20am - flight 8.40am. The company that booked my taxi had to book me that early for insurance purposes, so I wasted loads of time at the airport.

    Two hour flight, then 30 minutes from airport into town.

    Back, same thing with an early taxi, to an airport with very little to do and a delayed flight (by the end of the day, easyJet had been losing time on each flight).

    Back to Gatwick at 11pm, had to wait for taxi driver, then back at 1.30am.

    Obviously a train to Berlin would take a long time, but given the fact I could start from St Pancras (25 minutes journey for me) and not necessarily need to get there anywhere near as early, the extra time for train wouldn't be as excessive as many would think (comparing flight vs train times directly).

    I really do hope we might get trains to Cologne one day, as I'd quite like to use the train instead of flying - especially for leisure trips.
     
  26. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Berlin by train for that sort of journey is a bit of a stretch. For people like you (and me) that are less than half an hour from St Pancras, I think Frankfurt / Geneva is about the limit given the border controls* These are the two cities within an approx 5-6hr journey time from London that have significant flows - around 25 flights a day each way to/from London. (Amsterdam has nearly 60). Zurich is a bit too far; it would be nudging 7hrs, but might still have a case for a daily train pair by serving Basel as well.

    Even then, if you live close enough to an airport and don't have a pernickety taxi firm, flying will knock spots off the journey time. Once a year on my ski trip I leave home at 0430 and am in Geneva 3 hours later, having had a leisurely (albeit expensive) breakfast at Luton airport. Cost me about £30 last time (the flight, although breakfast wasn't far behind!)

    *I've said before, but the one possible silver lining to Brexit and 'taking back our borders' is that the inbound UK border for Eurostar may have to move to St P. This would make the inbound journey times more attractive.
     
    Last edited: 24 May 2017
  27. hungry

    hungry Member

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    And don't forget, a lot of people are Silver/gold, even leisure travellers, with BA/OneWorld, enabling free lounge, bar, premium drinks. Hot food, huge baggage stuff, fast track etc..

    Beacause of the wide range of world wide destinations.

    Whereas most people are not premium frequent travellers with euro *, due to limited range desinstions
     
  28. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    Amsterdam - London is now 4 hours and 40 minutes with a 50 minutes stopover in Brussel. Make it all clear to me how much time it is from Amsterdam, Schiphol, London airport to London citycenter. The Netherlands is more than just Amsterdam. But to be true. If you go to Inverness it is only 80 minutes of flying!
     
  29. Greenback

    Greenback Emeritus Moderator

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    I believe that there will be a market for rail between London and Amsterdam. There is now. That doesn't mean that services will have the same effect as has been felt on the Lonond to Paris or London to Brussels routes. Flying will still be attractive, particularly so for those who are living or working nearer to an airport than they are to St Pancras.
     
  30. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    I've done security queue at Schipol to my desk in central London in a little under 3 hours, and that was via Southend airport. I reckon 2hrs would be just possible if you go via London City and everything clicked.

    If Eurostar ran fast from Amsterdam to London, it could be done in around 3h30, and that would make big inroads to air traffic.

    The issue, however, will be frequency, not speed. Across the airlines there is, on average, a 15 minute frequency London - Amsterdam. Personally I think Eurostar need a 2hr frequency to start making a big dent in the air traffic.
     

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