Eurostar e320 / Class 374 "Velaro"

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by TheNewNo2, 31 May 2015.

  1. TheNewNo2

    TheNewNo2 Member

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    I was going past Temple Mills depot last week, and they had two of the nice new 374 sets there. And I happened to end up counting, each set (of two units) has eight pantographs. Now, I know it's meant to be able to split into two trains per Channel Tunnel regulations, but why does it need so many?
     
  2. pdeaves

    pdeaves Member

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    Some of the count can be put down to having different equipment for different voltages/systems.
     
  3. devon_metro

    devon_metro Established Member

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    I too noticed this today when passing Temple Mills. Also struck me as ridiculous that these trains are lying idle!
     
  4. Robbies

    Robbies Established Member

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    The class 374 are idle as I think there are still waiting certification that they can be used via the channel tunnel through France I believe or has that approval been given now?
     
  5. BananaRepublic

    BananaRepublic Member

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    The first one arrived at Temple Mills nearly a year and a half ago (January 2014).
    Half the fleet had been completed this time last year.
     
  6. TheNewNo2

    TheNewNo2 Member

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    They do seem remarkably chunky trains I noticed, I suppose because they're not built for the UK loading gauge.
     
  7. 33Hz

    33Hz Member

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    What's that you say? France holding up certification of another Siemens Velaro model? Surely not!
     
  8. gordonthemoron

    gordonthemoron Established Member

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    I think that the Velaro D has 6 pantographs for an 8 coach train
     
  9. DownSouth

    DownSouth Established Member

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    Sounds about right - one for 15kV AC, one for 25kV AC and one for DC lines, all duplicated for redundancy.

    If the conditions ever come right for DB to operate into London, the units to be used will need to have the seventh and eight pantographs installed for compatibility with the high-level wires in the Channel Tunnel.
     
  10. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    I'm sure that the 25kV pans can just be modified/replaced with ones that can operate on the high-level lines. They did do it for 2 319s after all...
     
  11. themiller

    themiller Member

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    Class 92s and class 373s don't seem to have any problems with the high ET contact wire height!
     
  12. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Indeed. I believe the pantrographs need tweaking but there isn't a need for an entirely new one just for the high level OHLE.

    I believe the 319s that went into the Tunnel simply had their ADDs or whichever system prevents a pantograph from over-extending disabled.
     
  13. BananaRepublic

    BananaRepublic Member

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    They were specifically designed to operate in the Tunnel.
     
  14. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    I presume the Eurostar pantograph is optimised for the catenary on the high speed lines. On the Tunnel wires it may be less optimised but still OK given the lower operating speed.
     
  15. hulabaloo

    hulabaloo Member

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    Am I right in understanding that the tunnel limit is 100mph because of these extended pantographs?
     
  16. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    Part of the restriction is to keep the speed differential with the Eurotunnel shuttles down (they run at 140kph - 87mph).
    Otherwise the Eurostar trains eat valuable tunnel capacity.
    They are also flighted for the same reason.
     
  17. notadriver

    notadriver Established Member

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    I think over the Olympics they were running the Eurotunnel shuttles at 100 mph ?

    It would be interesting to know how fast the class 374s can accelerate.
     
  18. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    e* 373s have different settings for the pan height for Classique lines, High Speed lines and Eurotunnel.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    indeed.
     
  19. themiller

    themiller Member

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    I believe that part of the reason for this is that there are differences in contact wire tension on these systems i.e. the higher the speed - the higher the wire tension.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    My point was that they perform on both systems (all in the case of the 373s) using the same pantographs. I've also seen a photo of a train on the ECML passing over a level crossing with its pantograph almost straight - at least my memory recalls it that way! However, http://www.rssb.co.uk/Library/stand...ry/2013-Strategic-direction-CR-HS-ENE-TSI.pdf B1.2 states 'All rolling stock required to operate on the GB AC 25kV 50Hz sub- system that has not been upgraded in accordance with the HS-CR ENE TSI, the following requirement shall apply:
    Pantographs shall have a working range of 2100 mm. When mounted on an Electric unit, the pantograph shall operate between 4140 mm (the lower operating position, ref. EN50206-1, 3.2.13) and 6240 mm (the upper operating position, ref. EN50206-1, 3.2.13) above rail level.'
    That's one hell of a difference!
    At C1.11 of the same document it goes on to say: 'The contact wire height on Eurotunnel infrastructure in the Channel Tunnel varies between 6 020 mm and 5 920 mm.'
    By my calculation that means that UK contact wire height can be higher than the Eurotunnel system wire height.
    Over to you, forum members, to add to this (or correct it!).
     
  20. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    A quick Google suggests a maximum road vehicle height of 4.95m in the UK (greater than mainland Europe, perhaps due to our fondness for double deck buses). Given the electrical clearance needed at 25kV, an AC wire at a level crossing would have to be somewhere around 6m to clear the same road vehicle height safely.
     
  21. NightStar

    NightStar Member

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    How much longer will the class 373 be around?

    Robert
     
  22. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    A while yet. The 374s are to enable Eurostar to expand their services rather than a direct replacement for the 373s.
     
  23. JaJaWa

    JaJaWa Established Member

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    Fortunately they're being refurbished!
     
  24. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes very true! And not before time!!!
     
  25. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    I assumed that they'd given up on this refurb, I certainly have :lol:
     
  26. BananaRepublic

    BananaRepublic Member

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    Eurostar will be retiring about half the fleet of 373's when all the 374's have been delivered.
    They are now only refurbishing and overhauling the ones that will be kept on.

    Eurostar operated 28 of the 31 Three Capitals sets originally delivered.
    The other 3 were owned and with SNCF on domestic services, but these were retired last year and reported to be at Conflans Jarny for scrapping at the end of October 2014.

    Until recently, the Eurostar website reported they were only operating 24 373's.
    One set is known to have been separated and used as a testbed for the refurbishment (photos have been on the web of individual cars in various states) and another was said to have gone to a French research/test or training centre., but that hasn't been verified.
    That leaves 2 sets unaccounted for.
    The Eurostar press release announcing the extra 7 374's, also stated that the current fleet of 373's was only 24 strong.

    However, the Eurostar website has recently been tidied up and the fleet details have reverted to a bland description that they operate 27 sets.
    That may just be old data, but it does reflect that one set has definitely been carved up.
    Another error is that the website says in one place that they have 10 374's on order, but elsewhere reflects the fact that the order was increased to 17 374's, last year.

    IIRC, they will only be keeping 14 373 sets after all the 374's have been delivered.


     
    Last edited: 3 Jun 2015
  27. SpacePhoenix

    SpacePhoenix Established Member

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    How likely is it that they'll order enough 374s in the next 5 years to enable them to retire all their remaining 373s (realistically how many years life have the remaining 373s got till they're life expired?)?
     
  28. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Depends how much money they will plough in to keep them going; there'll likely be a massive store of parts when the unrefurbished fleet goes for scrap.

    Which leads me to wonder how their lifespan will compare to the IC225, and if many (or any) will be stored rather than scrapped immediately. Eversholt will want to see further use out of the Mk4 coaching stock, however I don't see any other high-speed operators will be taking on the TMSTs, certainly not in Britain.
     
  29. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    That's also one reason why 140mph is unattainable on the ECML without significant changes to the OHLE.
    The current variation in wire height over crossings and under bridges is too great for the tension needed at the higher speed.
    The WCML OHLE was adjusted for 125mph and potential 140mph working during the recent upgrade, and the GW OHLE will have it built in.
     
  30. jonty14

    jonty14 Member

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    Any pictures of them being scrapped?
     

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