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Eurostar e320 / Class 374 "Velaro"

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Blamethrower

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What do you mean by lardy?

bulky, wide, tall, with tiny little windows (in comparison) and wheels that you could barely see even though there wasn't a platform in the way.

I guess it's just rare for me to see a train so high and wide in the UK, but yes, even compared to ICE3, they are a bunch of fat b*st@rd$
 
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jopsuk

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what is the weight of an e320 compared to a 374?

I guess you mean "compared to a 373", as otherwise the question is nonsense! Wikipedia claims a weight of 752t for a Three Capitals 373. Siemens don't seem to have published the weight for the e320; simply trying to calculate from other Velaro D is going to be fraught with errors.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I guess you mean "compared to a 373", as otherwise the question is nonsense! Wikipedia claims a weight of 752t for a Three Capitals 373. Siemens don't seem to have published the weight for the e320; simply trying to calculate from other Velaro D is going to be fraught with errors.

However, this

notadriver said:
It has about 26hp to the ton compared to 20hp to the ton for a 373.

gives a way of working out the weight if the total power output is known.
 

cjmillsnun

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Given Wikipedia figures for power, doing the maths gives a rough weight of 808t. Obviously that may be wrong given where the figures were taken from.
 

flash

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To save people talking rubbish a 374 has the following stats
Weight 970 tons
Length 399m
Power 16mw
 

notadriver

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Revising the power to weight ratio to 22hp/ton based on that figure.

Class 373s are 20.5hp/ton based on 800 tons. (752t empty / 815t full)

By comparison the 395 has 16.6 hp/ton.
 

D365

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How comes it's the Class 373 which is talked about as having poor acceleration then; is that down to the lack in distributed traction?
 

jopsuk

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Partly that, partly because the 395s are geared/optimised to sprint to 225km/h rather than cruise at 300km/h
 

flash

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How comes it's the Class 373 which is talked about as having poor acceleration then; is that down to the lack in distributed traction?

A trains acceleration is a function of its power at rail - it has nothing to do with distributed power. The only benefit that distributed power offers when accelerating is when rail conditions are poor - as fewer powered axles are more likely to slip.
 

edwin_m

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A trains acceleration is a function of its power at rail - it has nothing to do with distributed power. The only benefit that distributed power offers when accelerating is when rail conditions are poor - as fewer powered axles are more likely to slip.

Not so. At low speeds the acceleration is limited by adhesion and by the proportion of the train's weight that is resting on powered axles. It remains almost constant as speed increases until the train is at maximum power when acceleration starts to reduce significantly. Given that high speed trains have high installed power, the near-constant acceleration probably continues to a relatively high speed so the journey time benefits of having many motored axles are greater.

A train with distributed motors probably has more of its weight on powered axles so has more acceleration at lower speeds than one with fewer motored axles. Eurostar muddies the waters a bit because the power car is probably heavier so the load on the motored axles may be more than on the unpowered ones.
 
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notadriver

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My impression of the acceleration is that due to gearing the mid range speed pull (when full power is available) on high speed trains is greater than acceleration in the low speed ranges. Thus I reckon a 395 will out accelerate a standard 1.6 medium sized petrol car above 50 mph lol.
 
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rdlover777

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That's definitely what was being suggested - it was also 13 pages and 7 months ago...

from Wiki: The nomination of Siemens would see it break into the French high-speed market, as all French and French subsidiary high-speed operators use TGV derivatives produced by Alstom. Alstom attempted legal action to prevent the contract, claiming that the Siemens sets would breach Channel Tunnel safety rules, but this was thrown out of court. Alstom said that it would "pursue alternative legal options to uphold its position", and on 4 November 2010 it lodged a complaint with the European Commission over the tendering process, which then asked the British government for "clarification". Alstom then announced it had started legal action against Eurostar in the High Court in London. In July 2011, the High Court rejected Alstom's claim that the tender process was "ineffective", and in April 2012 Alstom said it would call off pending court actions against Siemens.
 
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jopsuk

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Alstom have a weird relationship with SNCF. They went to a huge effort to design the AGV for them, just for SNCF to turn round and ignore it in favour of yet more TGV Duplex. You'd have thought that being that close SNCF could have had the development of AGV Duplex made a priority
 

southern442

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from Wiki: The nomination of Siemens would see it break into the French high-speed market, as all French and French subsidiary high-speed operators use TGV derivatives produced by Alstom. Alstom attempted legal action to prevent the contract, claiming that the Siemens sets would breach Channel Tunnel safety rules, but this was thrown out of court. Alstom said that it would "pursue alternative legal options to uphold its position", and on 4 November 2010 it lodged a complaint with the European Commission over the tendering process, which then asked the British government for "clarification". Alstom then announced it had started legal action against Eurostar in the High Court in London. In July 2011, the High Court rejected Alstom's claim that the tender process was "ineffective", and in April 2012 Alstom said it would call off pending court actions against Siemens.

Talk about a sore loser!
 

JaJaWa

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Alstom have a weird relationship with SNCF. They went to a huge effort to design the AGV for them, just for SNCF to turn round and ignore it in favour of yet more TGV Duplex. You'd have thought that being that close SNCF could have had the development of AGV Duplex made a priority

They are used by NTV (Italo) in Italy - 20% owned by SNCF.
 

AlexNL

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Alstom a sore loser? Somewhat. Yes, they're a sore loser because someone put in a better offer than they did. In that light it's logical that Eurostar chose for the Siemens offer and not Alstom's.

However, lots of money was at stake (the initial 10 sets were purchased for a price of € 600 million) and Alstom was of the opinion that the Siemens offer did not comply with the channel tunnel safety regulations, something which Eurostar required in the tender. At that time it wasn't yet known that DB would want to send ICE trains to London (and actually did so in October 2010), nor that the safety rules would be changed in 2011.

And then there's the matter of the French government pulling on strings to protect French companies. Something which can also be seen with the acquisition of Alstom Power by GE for which the French government even introduced a decree which would allow them to block a takeover.
 

Peter Sarf

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Is there still only one e320 set in service currently?

There are more e320/374s in service. Personally I have seen all of 374007-12 and 374015-20 at St Pancras since 30/12/2015. All, it appears to me, were on Paris services. I expect the pair 374013-014 is in service but I have my suspicions that 374001-006 might not be ready - this is because,as they are the first three pairs built, they might well need some retrofitting AND seats.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I photographed 4019/20 at St Pancras the other day. It's a grab shot from a 395 heading out while the 374 was heading in.

Oh look - the 374 is sticking its tongue out!
 

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andrewkeith5

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Does anyone have any idea which services the e320 Velaros are operating now they are being phased in?

I have some annual leave to use up and would quite like to give them a try on a brief break from real life in Paris, but I'd really like to travel on at least one e320 to see what they're like.
 

Peter Sarf

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Does anyone have any idea which services the e320 Velaros are operating now they are being phased in?

I have some annual leave to use up and would quite like to give them a try on a brief break from real life in Paris, but I'd really like to travel on at least one e320 to see what they're like.

I have not worked out the pattern yet but it seems they are using them on ABOUT 50% of the Paris services (or a bit more) and none of the Brussels services.

I suppose it could be possible to guess which services use 374s based on your seat reservation as the layout of the two is different - longer coaches mean higher seat numbers. That is my theory but I have not checked whether I can see/choose the seats before booking :oops:.

AND my theory, for the time being, is holed by the post below :cry:.
 
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Peter Mugridge

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The best chance is on those trains that run at business travel times. One that i know is very unlikely to produce a 374 is the 11.31 from St Pancras - that's a definite 373 for the time being.

Eurostar tweeted me that until the 374s have fixed diagrams, they are only selling 700 or so of the 900 seats on those trips planned for a 374 in case they have to put a 373 on the service.
 

andrewkeith5

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Thanks for your help guys! Good advice all round. I called Eurostar telesales and they've booked me into two services that look to be the 374s so hopefully I'll get at least one. One of them is the 2139 arrival into St Pancras which I'm fairly sure I've seen a couple of times arriving as a 374, the other is the 0755 departure from St. Pancras which meets your suggestion of business times nicely.
 
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