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Eurostar .. Gone down the pan ??

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anme

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I have found them mucky on the inside, and I definitely do care about that. It's sloppy, shoddy and not somewhere I want my money going.

I also like to be able to see out of the window. Again, it's about attention to detail in what is *not* a budget product.

I have never found them dirty on the inside (I am a regular user). I do agree with you about the windows, but on a budget airline the proportion of seats next to a window is similar.

Anyway, it's interesting how people make these decisions. For me, timing, convenience and price are the most important. I guess for others, "details" matter more.
 
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Ianigsy

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I used Standard Premier on the trip back from Paris last year- on the train I booked, it was only about £10 more than Standard and for a few glasses of wine, a couple of coffees and a selection of French cheeses it was well worthwhile.

Lille Europe is an unwelcoming station which seems to have dozens of people milling round and a shortage of places to sit, eat or just get out of the way. I think part of the problem is the complexity of the connections being made- I was connecting from Eurostar on to a Brussels-Lyon-Montpellier TGV when I should have travelled via Paris the previous day. What you gain in convenience, you lose in any kind of enjoyment of your travel.
 

Bletchleyite

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Anyway, it's interesting how people make these decisions. For me, timing, convenience and price are the most important. I guess for others, "details" matter more.

I would probably contend that the details matter more to anyone who chooses a premium class, as the difference from Standard (and thus if it is worth paying for) is made up entirely by those details. It's not as if it gets there any earlier.

But FWIW I like to enjoy travel, whether that travel happens to be discretionary or necessary, so I don't necessarily choose the quickest or cheapest if the quickest or cheapest does not meet with my satisfaction (thinking of a certain blue and yellow airline here, though I do quite like the orange one).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Lille Europe is an unwelcoming station

And Paris Nord is a disgusting hovel, particularly the departure lounge for E*.

Is there a continuing theme here? :)
 

Greenback

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As has been alluded to earlier, E* is fine for the city to city dash & if booked in advance, can be reasonably priced. The trouble is that it tries too much to mirror airline practice which, for me, is a major failing.

Eurostar has always modelled itself on airlines, and I agree with you that it's a failing. I reckon that if they remembered that they were a railway a little mor often than they do, things like astandard premier would be a lot better than they are!

At weekends, why not offer a facility to upgrade to a 1st class seat for say £25 or £30 one way on the day (subject to availability? No food or drink, just the seat. The demand for business travel at weekends is much reduced & E* would save on the cost of the provision of the (limited) food that is offered in "Premier Standard" I'd certainly pay for that.

That's not a bad idea. It does complicate things a bit, but I'm sure that could be overcome.

On an aside, if we are going to have an intermediate class of travel, make it worthwhile Eurostar..!! <(

Exactly. If it's worth doing it should be done well, or simply abandoned as far as I'm concerned.

Before 2010, what is now Standard Premier was called Leisure Select.

You got champagne on boarding, hot towels, and a much better (hot) meal with wine, and often you would get a second (mini) bottle.

In 2010 they downgraded the service to what it is now, without reducing the price.

This has put a lot of people off, and I agree with you that the food is an embarrassment.

The food is shameful, and it's worse than any airline food I've ever had. I'm not a frequent flyer, though, the last time I was on a plane was in 2013!
 

anme

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The food is shameful, and it's worse than any airline food I've ever had. I'm not a frequent flyer, though, the last time I was on a plane was in 2013!

Obviously I can't comment on what airline food you have had, but in my experience the standard premier food is comparable with business class food on short haul flights in Europe, at a much lower price. That's not to say that it's great or even particularly good, but the criticism here seems overblown to me. It tends to confirm my view that the free stuff and the sense of entitlement that come with premium-class travel only serve to make people unhappy (an observation that applies far beyond Eurostar).

For me, standard premier is worth it for 10-20 pounds extra (which is often all it is), for the extra space and quieter environment. The food and drink is a nice benefit, although it's not a proper meal, and normally I will have other plans for eating and drinking anyway.

BTW, I am a regular traveller on Eurostar and by air.
 

Clip

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I also like to be able to see out of the window. Again, it's about attention to detail in what is *not* a budget product.

That is a bit unfair seeing as they have nowhere really to wash them in between the runs and I cant begin to imagine how dirty the inside of the chunnel is let alone the ones under the Thames.

I always go for the premier as its only £59 through me missus work so I don't even mind the feeble freebies and on the way back ill stand by the bar as much as possible anyway
 

Bletchleyite

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That is a bit unfair seeing as they have nowhere really to wash them in between the runs

How they run their business isn't my concern - they could employ a bloke with a brush for all I care. But mucky trains (a) give a bad impression and (b) hamper the view out of the window. (b) in particular may make me choose another option, i.e. air (though I suppose I can't get the airline to book a non-cloudy day :) )

It is their right to run their business how they choose just as it's mine to choose whether to give them any money or not, so if mucky trains is how they choose, they've also chosen not to have my custom :)
 
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anme

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How they run their business isn't my concern - they could employ a bloke with a brush for all I care. But mucky trains (a) give a bad impression and (b) hamper the view out of the window. (b) in particular may make me choose another option, i.e. air (though I suppose I can't get the airline to book a non-cloudy day :) )

It is their right to run their business how they choose just as it's mine to choose whether to give them any money or not, so if mucky trains is how they choose, they've also chosen not to have my custom :)

I have never been on a train of any kind which was so dirty as to significantly hamper the view out of the window, but maybe I've been lucky! I assumed you were referring to the lack of alignment of seats and windows, which is indeed a pity.
 

Bletchleyite

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I have never been on a train of any kind which was so dirty as to significantly hamper the view out of the window, but maybe I've been lucky!

I mostly get this on Northern.

I assumed you were referring to the lack of alignment of seats and windows, which is indeed a pity.

That it is, but seat selection allows this to be avoided.

But it is *particularly* poor that it is the case in First Class.
 

Clip

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How they run their business isn't my concern - they could employ a bloke with a brush for all I care. But mucky trains (a) give a bad impression and (b) hamper the view out of the window. (b) in particular may make me choose another option, i.e. air (though I suppose I can't get the airline to book a non-cloudy day :) )

It is their right to run their business how they choose just as it's mine to choose whether to give them any money or not, so if mucky trains is how they choose, they've also chosen not to have my custom :)

I done them a few times last year and I can honestly say they didn't hamper my view out of the window.
 

miami

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If memory serves the big benefit of standard premier (now that leisure select has gone) is the guarenteed power - it wasn't available in most 3rd class coaches.
 

Greenback

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I can confirm that while I have never flown in business, I did find what I was given to eat on Eurostar was inferior to anything I've ever had in economy, whether long or short haul! I know not all will agree with that as food is quite a personal thing.
 
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Well, readers, there's an old aphorism from aviation that if you want a meal the best thing to is to visit a restaurant! Meals have pretty much gone from short haul aviation and those in business class generally much more spartan than the 'old days'. People want cheap fares, convenient journey times and are less interested in eating on the move. Across Europe, restaurant cars are slowly going -- even in Switzerland -- with Germany, Austria and Italy hanging on. So in my experience ES's Standard Premier offer is actually quite good compared with other railways and is often reasonably priced. What is a problem, though, in my experience is that the ES trains could do with a good deep clean, the carpets in particular.
 
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ItchyRsole

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Lots of whingers on here.

Always found eurostar a very good experience. Standard Prem is good & you get what you pay for. For me the bigger, reclining, soft seats with some food & drink thrown in is a much more comfortable experience than standard, which I've done a fair few times too & find fine actually. The staff are a lot more helpful than airlines I find & I've turned up 15 mins before my train has departed, quick security & passport check done and I'm on. No chance of that at an airport.

Big yes from me & I'll be booking SP again for my return to Marseille this summer for some sun.
 

miami

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Lots of whingers on here.

Always found eurostar a very good experience. Standard Prem is good & you get what you pay for. For me the bigger, reclining, soft seats with some food & drink thrown in is a much more comfortable experience than standard, which I've done a fair few times too & find fine actually. The staff are a lot more helpful than airlines I find & I've turned up 15 mins before my train has departed, quick security & passport check done and I'm on. No chance of that at an airport.

Big yes from me & I'll be booking SP again for my return to Marseille this summer for some sun.

I've Turned up at Manchester airport 15 minutes before my plane has departed on several occasions without problem. Heathrow I've done at 18 minutes before departure.
 

Ianno87

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Lots of whingers on here.

Always found eurostar a very good experience. Standard Prem is good & you get what you pay for. For me the bigger, reclining, soft seats with some food & drink thrown in is a much more comfortable experience than standard, which I've done a fair few times too & find fine actually. The staff are a lot more helpful than airlines I find & I've turned up 15 mins before my train has departed, quick security & passport check done and I'm on. No chance of that at an airport.

Big yes from me & I'll be booking SP again for my return to Marseille this summer for some sun.

And I still find the concept of travelling under the sea to another country a magical one!
 

Johnuk123

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Strangely I find it little more impressive than the Tube. If you're after a magical experience, to me the only way across is the classic way - by sea.

Agreed, the tunnel is utterly boring like all tunnels are, crossing the channel by sea is so much more interesting.
 

Peter Mugridge

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With worse leg room, than the tube !

Unlike the tube, however, you are not expected to travel like a crab ( sideways ).

The legroom is perfectly adequate in the airline type seats although I agree it's very tight at the tables.
 

radamfi

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The existence of the Tunnel has meant that it is no longer cost effective to cross the Channel at short notice except by coach. You can get the day returns from London to Calais but they are still expensive if you come back another day.

Also it has become difficult to get to the Flemish coast or Gent/Brugge at short notice from London now that there is no boat to Oostende, other than paying through the nose on Eurostar through Brussels. The best you can do now is go to Calais, get the train to Dunkerque, then the bus to De Panne where you can continue by tram or train. The Dover to Dunkerque boat does not accept foot passengers.

If we could have the Connex coach service again, that did a regular Ashford to Calais service through the Tunnel, that would be good.
 

All Line Rover

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I don't support the idea of introducing advance-booking fares for Business Premier. The service is pitched at the highest level of convenience, for which fully flexible tickets form an important part, and the level at which Business Premier fares are currently set is not overpriced for the target market.

On the other hand, I believe that the Standard Premier advance-booking fares are too expensive for what they are, and should be priced at between 50% and 75% more than the cost of an equivalent Standard Class ticket, as is typical for domestic journeys on the continent.
 

anme

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On the other hand, I believe that the Standard Premier advance-booking fares are too expensive for what they are, and should be priced at between 50% and 75% more than the cost of an equivalent Standard Class ticket, as is typical for domestic journeys on the continent.

I don't know what dates you checked for your sample prices, but checking just now with the website's default dates, for all the trains I looked at the additional cost of standard premier was less than 50%.

Whenever I have used standard premier the difference has been GBP 10 or less, and in some cases it's been cheaper than standard. That's not a typical price, but it's not that uncommon either.
 
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anme

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What sort of dates are you looking at? How expensive are the standard class fares?

I used the default dates - right now, that is out tomorrow, return next Sunday.

As for when I have travelled in standard premium for a little more, or even a little less than standard - I'm afraid I don't remember the details. I've done it several times, so it's not so rare, but you also won't find it every time.
 
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Peter Mugridge

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I used the default dates - right now, that is out tomorrow, return next Sunday.

That will guarantee showing high fares for standard as the lower priced tiers will have all sold out weeks before travel.

Even booking 3½ months ahead ( Eurostar opens at 4 months ahead ) you'll often find the lowest two or three tiers have already been sold out.
 

All Line Rover

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So you're referring to single fares that are typically £160 standard / £195 standard premier / £245 business premier? I wouldn't call that representative of Eurostar's fares structure. For such short notice bookings I would expect most purchases to be for business premier tickets, especially as they are fully flexible and refundable.
 

anme

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So you're referring to single fares that are typically £160 standard / £195 standard premier / £245 business premier? I wouldn't call that representative of Eurostar's fares structure. For such short notice bookings I would expect most purchases to be for business premier tickets, especially as they are fully flexible and refundable.

I would be incredibly surprised if that was true. I know a great many business travellers, and some leisure/personal travellers, who will book tickets at late notice like this because they have no other choice, and I can assure you that few will book business premier tickets (245 pounds each way!). Even where companies will may for business premier, it will be for a few very senior staff only. The point about being fully flexible and refundable is simply not logical - if you're booking at the last minute, you're much *less* likely to need to cancel or change your plans, and anyway companies rarely pay extra for flexible/refundable tickets these days, as few of them actually ever get refunded/changed. It's cheaper overall to buy the lowest cost tickets, and simply buy a new ticket in the (relatively unusual) event that plans change.

Choosing two other dates at random (3/3 out, 13/3 back) gives a selection of outbound trains meeting the "standard premier <75% more than standard" test, along with almost all trains back. For several of the return trains (actually those with the best times for weekend leisure travellers), the difference is only ten pounds.
 
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All Line Rover

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I would be incredibly surprised if that was true. I know a great many business travellers, and some leisure/personal travellers, who will book tickets at late notice like this because they have no other choice, and I can assure you that few will book business premier tickets (245 pounds each way). I work in an international company with a *lot* of business travellers, and not a single person in the company is permitted to travel in business premier. The point about being fully flexible and refundable is simply not logical - if you're booking at the last minute, you're much *less* likely to need to cancel or change your plans, and anyway companies rarely pay extra for flexible/refundable tickets these days, as few of them actually ever get refunded/changed. It's cheaper overall to buy the lowest cost tickets, and simply buy a new ticket in the (relatively unusual) event that plans change.

But they are allowed to travel in standard premier? So you're saying that a £195 non-flexible (miss the train and you need to pay another £214, bringing the total fare up to £409 single), 30 minute minimum check in, no lounge access and no meaningful catering ticket is considered to compare favourably with a £245 fully-flexible, 10 minute minimum check in, full lounge access and comprehensive catering ticket? Each to their own, but with the possibility of a meeting over-running, delays with transport to Gard du Nord and other possible exigencies, I would not want to work for a company that considers the former to be the better option.

Choosing two other dates at random (3/3 out, 13/3 back) gives a selection of outbound trains meeting the "standard premier <75% more than standard" test, along with almost all trains back. For several of the return trains (actually those with the best times for weekend leisure travellers), the difference is only ten pounds.

You've chosen a Sunday as the return date, and interestingly, it appears that where a Sunday is selected as the return portion of a journey to Paris, the standard premier fares are around £20 cheaper in both directions - a minimum of £79.50 compared to the usual minimum of £97.50. This is slightly bizarre as the £79.50 fares are not available if both the outward and return portions of a journey are made on a Sunday.

For a more typical journey - out and back on a random Wednesday in March - the fares are mostly £29 standard / £97.50 standard premier, and there are a few trains at £29 standard / £199.50 standard premier.
 
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