Eurostar Ski Train, which route does it take?

[Fred43123]

Apologies if there is a thread about this already.

I'm travelling on the Eurostar Ski train in January, the overnight one out and the day one back. Does anyone know which route it takes after it exits the tunnel? I know it goes through Lille, Disneyland Paris onto LGV Sud Est but where does it diverge off after that to head towards the Alps?

Thanks!

 

[Bald Rick]

Apologies if there is a thread about this already.

I'm travelling on the Eurostar Ski train in January, the overnight one out and the day one back. Does anyone know which route it takes after it exits the tunnel? I know it goes through Lille, Disneyland Paris onto LGV Sud Est but where does it diverge off after that to head towards the Alps?

Thanks!

To the best of my knowledge - which is a bit rusty here - the day train goes down the LGV Sud Est, on to the Lyon Bypass, and turns left at the end of the bypass for Chambéry and Albertville, where it reverses, then up the valley to Moutiers and Bourg St Maurice. I once saw it sail underneath me whilst I was stationary on the A43 roughly halfway between Lyon and Chambéry. Rather galling as I had left London 5 hours before it did.

The southbound night train is different. It just gets down the LGV Nord before it closes for maintenance (at 2300 IIRC), but the LGV SE is shut by the time it gets there, so it's down the old PLM route via Sens, Montbard, Dijon, Bourg-en-Bresse (whether via Mâcon or not, je ne sais pas), then via Culoz to Chambéry and as per day train. Also I'm fairly sure it goes round Paris on the Grande Ceinture, rather than on the LGV bypass, but I don't know definitely. Interestingly, the night train takes roughly the same path from Paris as the old Calais snow train couchettes used to - the infamous service with the Disco coach and guaranteed punch ups.

Both northbound services follows the reverse of the outbound equivalent.

 

[Fred43123]

Thanks for your help, I tried to work out the distance of the night train using this website here: http://raildar.fr/osrm/#7/48.407/3.801

But trying to mark the route via Sens is proving a bit difficult. I might just wait and see on the evening which way it goes, was trying to work out the distance for the overnight train but the day one is more simple.

 

[Please Explain]

To the best of my knowledge - which is a bit rusty here - the day train goes down the LGV Sud Est, on to the Lyon Bypass, and turns left at the end of the bypass for Chambéry and Albertville, where it reverses, then up the valley to Moutiers and Bourg St Maurice. I once saw it sail underneath me whilst I was stationary on the A43 roughly halfway between Lyon and Chambéry. Rather galling as I had left London 5 hours before it did.

The southbound night train is different. It just gets down the LGV Nord before it closes for maintenance (at 2300 IIRC), but the LGV SE is shut by the time it gets there, so it's down the old PLM route via Sens, Montbard, Dijon, Bourg-en-Bresse (whether via Mâcon or not, je ne sais pas), then via Culoz to Chambéry and as per day train. Also I'm fairly sure it goes round Paris on the Grande Ceinture, rather than on the LGV bypass, but I don't know definitely. Interestingly, the night train takes roughly the same path from Paris as the old Calais snow train couchettes used to - the infamous service with the Disco coach and guaranteed punch ups.

Both northbound services follows the reverse of the outbound equivalent.

Never heard about that one before.. I must say I'm intrigued! Has it been quite some time since that train last ran? I've heard plenty of stories in recent years about punch ups in le voiture bar on the ES train de nuit the OP is traveling on, hence they have made it a dry train now and a few drunken fools have now spoiled the fun for everyone!!

 

[Bald Rick]

Never heard about that one before.. I must say I'm intrigued! Has it been quite some time since that train last ran? I've heard plenty of stories in recent years about punch ups in le voiture bar on the ES train de nuit the OP is traveling on, hence they have made it a dry train now and a few drunken fools have now spoiled the fun for everyone!!

Let's set the scene.

To get to the Calais couchettes means (usually) a train trip to Dover, then the ferry, with beer sold at French prices / duty free.

Secondly, what is the demographic of skiers willing to get the couchette (uncomfortable trip overnight that dumps you in resort early in the morning well before accommodation is available): families, couples, or groups of young people (mostly blokes) trying to save £50 compared to flying?

So, take said groups of young blokes, add in a half case of cheap Stella per bloke, a disco coach with a few ladies from mixed groups, the SNCF approach to cant deficiency (rather more exciting than ours), and drivers on the back turn on a Friday night with a heavy hand on the brakes and one eye on a large carafe of vin rouge, and it is only a matter of time before there's a bump, a big sway, a smash of glass, a "you spilt my beer", and away you go!

Fortunately the blokes running the bar in the disco coach were 'handy' (ex Foreign Legion types), and would have it all sorted out quickly.

Not sure when it stopped, my last trip was about 15 years ago.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Let's set the scene.

To get to the Calais couchettes means (usually) a train trip to Dover, then the ferry, with beer sold at French prices / duty free.

Secondly, what is the demographic of skiers willing to get the couchette (uncomfortable trip overnight that dumps you in resort early in the morning well before accommodation is available): families, couples, or groups of young people (mostly blokes) trying to save £50 compared to flying?

So, take said groups of young blokes, add in a half case of cheap Stella per bloke, a disco coach with a few ladies from mixed groups, the SNCF approach to cant deficiency (rather more exciting than ours), and drivers on the back turn on a Friday night with a heavy hand on the brakes and one eye on a large carafe of vin rouge, and it is only a matter of time before there's a bump, a big sway, a smash of glass, a "you spilt my beer", and away you go!

Fortunately the blokes running the bar in the disco coach were 'handy' (ex Foreign Legion types), and would have it all sorted out quickly.

Not sure when it stopped, my last trip was about 15 years ago.

Did it once - pre children , a couchette train of the worst order , absolute chaos on the French side , incredibly uncomfortable , never again.

 

[Bald Rick]

Did it once - pre children , a couchette train of the worst order , absolute chaos on the French side , incredibly uncomfortable , never again.

That's what I said. 8 days and 7 nights later I had to go home though! Bit quieter northbound; 8 days / nights of Alpine air does that to a fellow. Heavy drinking throughout had nothing to do with it, honest guv.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

"Paris on the Grande Ceinture," Does that line still exist, I thought much of it was high level walkway, you can see some of it not far from Gare de Lyon, unless I am thinking of something else?

 

[30907]

"Paris on the Grande Ceinture," Does that line still exist, I thought much of it was high level walkway, you can see some of it not far from Gare de Lyon, unless I am thinking of something else?

That's the approaches to Paris Bastille - there was also the Petite Ceinture but that IIRC is more in tunnel and cutting

 

[EssexGonzo]

Whenever I see the Eurostar slowly snaking through the snow in its single track on the opposite side of the Isere valley to the road between Moutiers and Bourg St Maurice, I think two things: 1) That it looks rather majestic and b) Lucky sods got on at St Pancras and I've had to bloody drive.

I can never seem to bag tickets at the right price. By the time I find space, they're silly money.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

That's the approaches to Paris Bastille - there was also the Petite Ceinture but that IIRC is more in tunnel and cutting

Ok, thank you.

 

[Gordon]

"Paris on the Grande Ceinture," Does that line still exist, I thought much of it was high level walkway, you can see some of it not far from Gare de Lyon, unless I am thinking of something else?

The Grande Ceinture (GC) certainly still exists, and is used a lot as a way round Paris for freight. Some sections have local passenger services and/or carry inter-regional TGV services.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Ceinture_line

The largely abandoned Ceinture railway you are thinking of is the Petite Ceinture (PC), but this is not the raised viaduct which as already posted is the old Bastille line.
There is a reasonable English version of the French wikipedia entry for the PC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemin_de_fer_de_Petite_Ceinture

I suspect you are recalling the section of Petite Ceinture in the east of central Paris that was used for much longer than the rest, as it carried through trains (inter alia) from Calais to Gare de Lyon to be attached to trains heading south. I travelled on it behind a BB63500 diesel in 1978 in a Calais - Venezia coach (I was travelling to Genève via Vallorbe). (I've actually still got a cassette tape recording of the journey...)

I found a web picture of a similar train:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Petite-Ceinture_Daumesnil_sept_1985.jpg

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

The Grande Ceinture (GC) certainly still exists, and is used a lot as a way round Paris for freight. Some sections have local passenger services and/or carry inter-regional TGV services.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Ceinture_line

The largely abandoned Ceinture railway you are thinking of is the Petite Ceinture (PC), but this is not the raised viaduct which as already posted is the old Bastille line.
There is a reasonable English version of the French wikipedia entry for the PC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemin_de_fer_de_Petite_Ceinture

I suspect you are recalling the section of Petite Ceinture in the east of central Paris that was used for much longer than the rest, as it carried through trains (inter alia) from Calais to Gare de Lyon to be attached to trains heading south. I travelled on it behind a BB63500 diesel in 1978 in a Calais - Venezia coach (I was travelling to Genève via Vallorbe). (I've actually still got a cassette tape recording of the journey...)

I found a web picture of a similar train:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Petite-Ceinture_Daumesnil_sept_1985.jpg

Thank you, yes I think it is the latter line that I am thinking of. I understand for example, as you say, boat trains from Calais went into Gare du Nord, then some carriages from some of those were shunted round to either Est or Lyon to link onto other trains to Switzerland, Italy and Beyond, I think even bits of the Orient Expresses even did that in their time.?

 

[Please Explain]

Let's set the scene.

To get to the Calais couchettes means (usually) a train trip to Dover, then the ferry, with beer sold at French prices / duty free.

Secondly, what is the demographic of skiers willing to get the couchette (uncomfortable trip overnight that dumps you in resort early in the morning well before accommodation is available): families, couples, or groups of young people (mostly blokes) trying to save £50 compared to flying?

So, take said groups of young blokes, add in a half case of cheap Stella per bloke, a disco coach with a few ladies from mixed groups, the SNCF approach to cant deficiency (rather more exciting than ours), and drivers on the back turn on a Friday night with a heavy hand on the brakes and one eye on a large carafe of vin rouge, and it is only a matter of time before there's a bump, a big sway, a smash of glass, a "you spilt my beer", and away you go!

Fortunately the blokes running the bar in the disco coach were 'handy' (ex Foreign Legion types), and would have it all sorted out quickly.

Not sure when it stopped, my last trip was about 15 years ago.

That did crack me up Rick! I can picture it well, we used some of the overnight additional TGV's that were put on last summer during Euro 2016, atmosphere onboard was similar to as described above, except it was more often than not, a whole train full of pi-sed up blokes!
Ill never forget the 01hxx from Lyon Part Dieu back up to Paris after the Romania v Albania match! That was an experience!!

 

[Gordon]

I understand for example, as you say, boat trains from Calais went into Gare du Nord, then some carriages from some of those were shunted round to either Est or Lyon I think even bits of the Orient Expresses even did that in their time.?

Yes, that's exactly what happened, and indeed this did include the Orient Express. 'Shunted' is not really the right word. The 1978 journey I quote was fairly long, so very much a train journey (and 'real' haulage behind a 63500). And the Calais - Venezia portion I was in was indeed the former Simplon Orient Express.
Est didn't really come into the equation, as anything from Calais to eastern France and Basel went direct via Lille - Charleville - Metz (or via Amiens - Laon - Chaumont until 1959)

 

[TRAX]

I suspect you are recalling the section of Petite Ceinture in the east of central Paris that was used for much longer than the rest, as it carried through trains (inter alia) from Calais to Gare de Lyon to be attached to trains heading south. I travelled on it behind a BB63500 diesel in 1978 in a Calais - Venezia coach (I was travelling to Genève via Vallorbe). (I've actually still got a cassette tape recording of the journey...)

I found a web picture of a similar train:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Petite-Ceinture_Daumesnil_sept_1985.jpg

This has never been part of the PC though. This used to be the Vincennes Line, sort of the ancestor of the southeastern branch of the RER A.

 

[MarcVD]

This has never been part of the PC though. This used to be the Vincennes Line, sort of the ancestor of the southeastern branch of the RER A.

??? The Vincennes line was closed much earlier than that and never ran between Gare de Lyon and Gare du Nord...

 

[TRAX]

I’m sorry I got my lines mixed up...

 

[Fred43123]

The route I did on the night train in the end...

St Pancras - HS1 - Tunnel - LGV Nord - Stopped at Lille for crew change - Marne-La-Vallee - LGV Sud Est - Montbard - Dijon Ville - St Amour - Bourg-en-Bresse - Culoz - Aix-Le-Bains - Chambery - Reversed at Alberville - Bourg St Maruice.

 

[Gordon]

I’m sorry I got my lines mixed up...

I'm afraid you did. Gare du Nord to Gare de Lyon was definitely the Petite Ceinture.

The problem is mosts published texts rattle on about line being 'closed in 1934' ignoring the fact that parts of it continued to exist for freight, departmental and non local passenger services long after.

 

[Gordon]

The route I did on the night train in the end...

St Pancras - HS1 - Tunnel - LGV Nord - Stopped at Lille for crew change - Marne-La-Vallee - LGV Sud Est - Montbard - Dijon Ville - St Amour - Bourg-en-Bresse - Culoz - Aix-Le-Bains - Chambery - Reversed at Alberville - Bourg St Maruice.

That is the route I would expect it to take, the long standing route for direct Paris - Savoie ski resorts direct/overnight trains. However, I suspect that on occasion it is routed via the high speed route diverging at St Quentin Fallavier. The other alternative is LGV SE as far as Macon/Pont de Veyle then to Bourg or Amberieu (the normal day route for Paris - Geneve /Haute Savoie expresses)

 

[Pshambro]

The day train northbound did not go near Lyon like the southbound train on the two occasions I have taken it, instead it left Chambery and headed north to Bourg en Bresse and rejoined the LGV sud-est at Macon.

My favourite thing about that train is the contrast between the 186mph down HS1 and the French LGVs through lots of modern civil engineering giving way to 30mph along winding single track lines through the alps that border people’s back gardens with barely some chicken wire separating the two.