Eurostar to Amsterdam in 2016

[Alfie1014]

Press release from Eurostar today; got to wait until Dec 2016 though!

http://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/about...tar-announces-new-direct-service#.UkW3jRbWdsP

Eurostar announces new direct service between London and Amsterdam

27 Sep 2013
Partnership with the Dutch railways will see services commence in December 2016
Journey times of around four hours
Plan to revolutionise travel between these capital cities

Eurostar today announces that it has signed an agreement with the Dutch railways to launch direct services between London and Amsterdam from December 2016.
The announcement was made this afternoon by the Secretary of State for infrastructure and the environment as part of a package of measures to enhance the services on the Dutch high speed line and will be ratified by the Dutch Parliament over the coming months. The Eurostar service will feature its new e320 trains which will be interoperable and will be compatible with the Dutch high-speed signalling systems.

Since becoming a standalone corporate entity in September 2010, Eurostar has had clear ambitions to expand its business beyond its existing destinations and to encourage passengers to choose high speed rail over plane for short haul European travel. In the last year, the business has introduced new services to the Swiss Alps and Provence in the South of France. Today’s announcement represents a significant step forward in its expansion plans.

The London–Amsterdam route is the largest, international airline market in Europe attracting over 3 million business and leisure passengers. With the arrival of a direct high-speed rail service between the UK and the Netherlands, passengers can look forward to an attractive, convenient alternative to the airlines.

Eurostar plans to run two services a day between London and Amsterdam with journey times of around four hours. These services will run via Brussels to Amsterdam stopping at Antwerp, Rotterdam, Schiphol Airport and Amsterdam Centraal. In addition to providing a direct high-speed link between the UK and the Netherlands, this service will also enhance the scope for customers to connect to a range of destinations in mainland Europe.

Nicolas Petrovic, Chief Executive of Eurostar, said:

“We have long been ambitious for expansion to new destinations so today’s announcement marks a major advance in our growth plans. With over 3 million passengers travelling by air between London and Amsterdam, this is one of Europe’s most popular routes. Our fast, comfortable, point-to-point service will greatly enhance the links between the UK and the near continent, revolutionising travel between these important financial and tourist hubs.”

 

[Medicy]

Great stuff, wish this was available when I was studying over there (especially being so close to Ashford International!)

For anyone interested, here's the link from NS Hispeed along with their other plans. Shame about the Fyra failure, maybe it'll have led to the Eurostar link being fast-tracked a bit?

 

[leshuttle]

Will be interesting to see how security and passport control are setup for these services to please UK Immigration. New segregated check-in terminals and platforms or a one hour stop at Brussels/Lille? :roll:

 

[johnnychips]

Will be interesting to see how security and passport control are setup for these services to please UK Immigration. New segregated check-in terminals and platforms or a one hour stop at Brussels/Lille? :roll:

Shouldn't be a problem going out, but coming back, will they go past Brussel Zuid and then reverse back in to the secure platforms; modify an existing through platform to make it secure; or more sensibly have on train checks and not stop at Lille to allow time for this?

This really isn't that groundbreaking for Amsterdam, given the huge number of daily flights there from all airports in the UK, but probably more convenient for Antwerp and Rotterdam. (Does Rotterdam still have flights to UK?)

 

[starrymarkb]

(Does Rotterdam still have flights to UK?)

It does, BA from Heathrow and City Jet from London City (and possibly elsewhere)

 

[radamfi]

The new plan for Netherlands to Belgium trains can be seen in this diagram:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=107459132&postcount=1036

The main difference to the old Fyra plan is that the Amsterdam to Brussels train will be much slower, and will be more integrated into the domestic timetables. It will use the old line between Amsterdam to Rotterdam via The Hague, and also stop at Breda, Mechelen and Brussels Airport. If you want to go fast then you will have to use Thalys (or maybe Eurostar if it allows Amsterdam to Brussels traffic).

 

[johnnychips]

It does, BA from Heathrow and City Jet from London City (and possibly elsewhere)

Thanks, and just remembered that Antwerp has links to London City by Cityjet, and Manchester by BMIR. (Unless anything's changed recently).

 

[Gordon]

.

Disappointingly, like many press releases, there is a lot of 'marketing puff' style language and some stretching of the truth in the Eurostar press release.

For example the 'new service to the Swiss Alps' is of course a connecting service, not direct as implied.

I'm dubious that the Amsterdam service "will also enhance the scope for customers to connect to a range of destinations in mainland Europe". How exactly?

Geographically the service runs into a 'corner' of Europe and getting a connection from any of the destination points will be no faster than current possibilities departing from Brussels



.

 

[jon0844]

I wonder how many people will take the train to Schiphol and fly from there to avoid our crazy taxes? Of course, you'd need a bit more regular service for that.

And I suspect customs will need to be a bit more alert for those returning trains!

 

[Ironside]

.

I'm dubious that the Amsterdam service "will also enhance the scope for customers to connect to a range of destinations in mainland Europe". How exactly?

Geographically the service runs into a 'corner' of Europe and getting a connection from any of the destination points will be no faster than current possibilities departing from Brussels



.

It may well be quicker to go get from the UK to Osnabruck and Hanover via Amsterdam rather than Brussels and Cologne because the onward connections are generally much better in the former. Getting through the Ruhr can be tediously slow.

 

[Gordon]

It may well be quicker to go get from the UK to Osnabruck and Hanover via Amsterdam rather than Brussels and Cologne because the onward connections are generally much better in the former. Getting through the Ruhr can be tediously slow.

Timewise it is about the same, the only advantage would be for someone who strictly only wants one change of train.

 

[Techniquest]

Great, London will be linked to Amsterdam in 3 years time. Fantastic news, now what about the rest of the country? Birmingham to Amsterdam is a very busy corridor too, maybe one day we'll get through trains from places other than London, linking more of the UK to Europe needs to be a high priority!

It'll be interesting to see what times they run these trains at and if they're convenient for anyone outside the South East.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Through Eurostar services from London to Amsterdam from December 2016.
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ndon-amsterdam-services-in-december-2016.html

"Two services a day would be operated using Eurostar's new Siemens Velaro e320 trains, the first of which is now on test. The journey time will be around 4 h, with stops at Brussels, Antwerpen, Rotterdam and Schiphol airport. "

But note: A Eurostar spokesman told Railway Gazette International that details of the immigration and baggage screening procedures for UK-bound journeys were still to be worked out.

So what will this mean in practice form passengers travelling on UK bound services ?:

- all passengers to disembark at Brussels to clear UKBA procedures - as they do now at Lille on Eurostar trains from Lyon bound for London. Adds an hour to journey
- UKBA and screening at pick up stations along the way
- on board inspections - which they Finns and Russians do their "Allegro" service between St Petersburg and Helskinki.

My guess: all passengers to disembark at Brussles making London bound journey take around 5.5 hours from Amsterdam

 

[gordonthemoron]

why don't they just do inbound passport check in London?

 

[shinkansen1966]

why don't they just do inbound passport check in London?

Not possible.

UKBA will want to know that everyone on the Eurostar is allowed into the UK before the train has left the Schengen area.

At the moment, the only solution is that all passengers disembark at Brussels for UKBA clearance before re-boarding the train for onward travel to London.

 

[stut]

I imagine they can do inbound passport check in London if they want to. Security, however...

 

[shinkansen1966]

I imagine they can do inbound passport check in London if they want to. Security, however...

Security is the easier part. Just outsource arrangements at each of the stations en route.

UKBA will not want to undertake passport checks on trains arriving into London. People arriving at airports and who are not permitted into the UK, remain airside and it's the airlines' reponsibility to take them home.

At (say), Ebbsfleet international station, there are no equivalent facilities. So UBKA need to be satisfied that all UK-bound Eurostars have passengers with correct documentation before the train leaves Schengen.

 

[shinkansen1966]

UK bound passengers can expect a less than smooth trip.

The Eurostar will pick up UK bound passengers between Amsterdam to Brussels. At Brussels, all passengers disembark where they clear UKBA passport and security. After which, they rejoin the train for the remainder of the trip to London. This is what happens on Eurostar trains from Lyon to London. Clearance takes place at Lille and adds 90 minutes to the UK bound trip.

I do not expect UKBA to allow Eurostar to carry passengers locally between Amsterdam and Brussels.

Moderators - feel free to remove my newly created thread. Erroneously duplicated.

 

[anme]

I've been wondering about this.

Immigration checks can be done at St Pancras. I've seen passport checks there recently, in addition to the checks at the boarding station. Eurostar could still be required to return anyone turned away to their station of origin. I've never been to Ebbsfleet - if immigration checks can't be done there, perhaps these trains could simply not stop. I don't know how many passengers that would lose.

Presumably the train will stop at Brussels (maybe Lille and/or Calais too). Those passengers will already have cleared UK immigration before getting on the train. Or passport checks could simply not be performed at Brussels (etc) for those trains.

Security is another matter. This would require a contractor to be appointed and platforms at Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Antwerp, etc made secure for Eurostar departures. The latter may be difficult at many of the stations in question.

I think there are significant problems and I fear passengers will have to disembark at Brussels for security/immigration. As some have said before, this presents problems in itself.

So I'm also very curious what Eurostar have in mind...

 

[shinkansen1966]

So I'm also very curious what Eurostar have in mind...

Suspect Eurostar will do what they do at the moment on the Lyon-Lille-London run. Get everyone off the train at Lille.

Eurostar can still trumpet their 4 hr 6 min journey times. But they apply to the outbound services only. For inbound services, it will be 5 hr 30 mins.

 

[Techniquest]

Then to be honest London bound will still be easier to fly,great way to get people off the planes...

 

[jon0844]

This needs to be sorted. There's stacks of room at St Pancras for checks upon arrival, so that seems like the place to do it (plus basic security checks at the other stations). If this means a train can't stop at Ebbsfleet, Eurostar should just offer a free ticket for use on a SET service back.

Or we have checks there too, and make sure that the UKBA provides a service we would expect - however funded (either from ticket prices or from general taxation).

Incidentally, is Stratford International ever going to have services calling there?

 

[Manchester77]

Isn't this just like the Dutch flyer service from Liverpool street except without the changing?

 

[shinkansen1966]

This needs to be sorted

It won't. We're dealing with UKBA.

Look what happened over the Lille loophole fiasco. The merest hint of a leak in the UK's watertight immigration checks and expect a response from the Daily Mail or UKIP.

Incidentally, is Stratford International ever going to have services calling there?

No.

The station's been opened for 4 years. If Eurostar could stop there, they would have by now. And UKBA are not going to spend yet more money on further DDR style checks at yet more UK railway stations with international access.

 

[jon0844]

The station's been opened for 4 years. If Eurostar could stop there, they would have by now. And UKBA are not going to spend yet more money on further DDR style checks are yet more UK railway stations with international access.

Why was anything ever built for international trains there? Besides the Olympics, it's just too close to St Pancras (and of course, trains didn't even stop there for that!).

Ebbsfleet on the other hand is, or could be (not sure how it's doing) a valuable station as it can allow people to travel who have come by car. I am rather disappointed that we can't get the UKBA to operate from there, as well as do checks from St Pancras.

Frankly, I don't care what UKIP says and certainly not a newspaper. I didn't vote for UKIP and the Daily Mail (and others) aren't elected, contrary to what they might believe!!

 

[radamfi]

It won't. We're dealing with UKBA.

Look what happened over the Lille loophole fiasco. The merest hint of a leak in the UK's watertight immigration checks and expect a response from the Daily Mail or UKIP.

Yes, there is no danger of this being resolved. I think the Dutch authorities are rather naive in announcing this. Maybe Eurostar are trying to up the ante by putting pressure on the Home Office to agree to a sensible immigration procedure. Personally I don't think there should be any investment in high speed services to the UK as the UK doesn't deserve it. Much better to stay on the other side of the Channel.

 

[Manchester77]

Think it was because they had the big concrete box and could put something in it, for domestic high speed trains is fine and will serve the community well with fast connections into the centre of London. But I don't really get why they put international platforms in as you say they seem a big pointless

 

[ainsworth74]

Personally I don't think there should be any investment in high speed services to the UK as the UK doesn't deserve it. Much better to stay on the other side of the Channel.

Very sensible to cut off one of the largest economies in Europe from everyone else. That would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Manchester77]

If you wanted to be spiteful say that instead of making everyone get off the train at X station for checks make the UKBA pay for controls at each of the stops of they really want to have such tight security.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Ebbsfleet on the other hand is, or could be (not sure how it's doing) a valuable station as it can allow people to travel who have come by car. I am rather disappointed that we can't get the UKBA to operate from there, as well as do checks from St Pancras.

You can tell that UKBA are doing their border checks on the cheap. Just look at the Eurostar timetable.

The last Paris/Brussels bound Eurostar of the day calls at Ebbsfleet at 13:15. After that, there are no more outbound Eurostars calling their until the next morning.

Then a couple of evening Paris/Brussels bound Eurostar call at Ashford between 17:00 and 18:30 suggesting that once UBKA finish their lunchtime shift at Ebbsfleet, they travel down to Ashford for an evening shift.

Or we could join Schengen and be spared these DDR style checks which are done on the cheap. As I have said before, even the Russians manage do their checks on the international trains.

But we will never join Schengen.