Eurostar to Amsterdam in 2016

[anme]

Yes, unless you like the idea of locking passengers inside a burning vehicle.

The incident in question was an Albanian man who was being ejected via Eurostar, pulled the emergency stop and dragged the door open and then jumped out.... while the trainset was still doing 120mph.....

Apparently trains don't go very fast in Albania or something.

I hope he was ok.

 

[brianthegiant]

I've written to the transport select committee, suggesting that they conduct an enquiry into barriers to international rail services, and the reasons why this needs looking at (along the lines discussed in this and other related threads).
Not holding my breath though.

from [email protected]:Thank you for your email. Unfortunately the Committee is not planning on looking into this matter in the near future. The Committee has published its future programme for 2013/14 which is available on our website. I will, however, keep your proposal on file for the future. The Committee reviews all the inquiry suggestions it receives, usually at the beginning of the year, when planning its future work.

From the minutes, I think the Parliamentary year runs something like May-May, so maybe they'll consider this for 2014-2015.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/c...ns-select/transport-committee/formal-minutes/
oh well..

 

[SF-02]

You can tell that UKBA are doing their border checks on the cheap. Just look at the Eurostar timetable.

The last Paris/Brussels bound Eurostar of the day calls at Ebbsfleet at 13:15. After that, there are no more outbound Eurostars calling their until the next morning.

Then a couple of evening Paris/Brussels bound Eurostar call at Ashford between 17:00 and 18:30 suggesting that once UBKA finish their lunchtime shift at Ebbsfleet, they travel down to Ashford for an evening shift.

Or we could join Schengen and be spared these DDR style checks which are done on the cheap. As I have said before, even the Russians manage do their checks on the international trains.

But we will never join Schengen.

Yes its a shame and the UK system is ridiculous. The vast majority of illegal immigrants arrive legally, so the checks do little, and stay beyond the limit of their student/visitor/family visa.

UKBA inconvenience many with pointless border checks but do little to remove people overstaying.

 

[HSTEd]

Its almost impossible to find people though if they don't want to be found.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Unlike other european countries, the UK doesn't have the bureaucracy to register the whereabouts of people living in the country, it also doesn't bother to record people leaving the country so no one really knows how many people there are in Britain

 

[jon0844]

Its almost impossible to find people though if they don't want to be found.

Even when they do, it seems you lose them again as soon as they're bailed. People wonder why illegals come all the way here, when there are so many other places to go, but it's really quite obvious when you can disappear and - often but not always - be okay even if you are found.

In fact, most people probably only get found out when they leave the UK and come back again - where checks might reveal someone having overstayed.

Meanwhile, everyone else is inconvenienced in the name of keeping our borders secure.

 

[HSTEd]

I don't really see any alternative to the current system vis-a-vis internal monitoring, without leading to some dystopian nightmare where hordes of police wander around demanding "Papers" from passers by.

And exit-monitoring is very dodgy in my opinion, I don't think its any of the states business if I leave the country unless I am fleeing bail or somesuch.

 

[reb0118]

And exit-monitoring is very dodgy in my opinion, I don't think its any of the states business if I leave the country unless I am fleeing bail or somesuch.

I beg to differ. How can a state know how many people remain within its borders if it does not take note of how many that leave?

Also how can you tell who has or has not complied with visa or other restrictions if you do not check them out as well as in?

 

[radamfi]

According to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

only 11 out of the 26 Schengen member countries record entries and exits in their national database when people enter or leave the Schengen area, none of them countries with an existing or proposed Eurostar service.

 

[HSTEd]

I beg to differ. How can a state know how many people remain within its borders if it does not take note of how many that leave?

Does the state really need absolutely accurate figures for population on the short timescales that exit monitoring provide?
Additionally you don't need exit monitoring to count how many people leave.

Providers presumably know how many people have been aboard planes, trains and ships to a relatively good level of accuracy.
Exit monitoring is about recording who has left.

Also how can you tell who has or has not complied with visa or other restrictions if you do not check them out as well as in?

In most cases illegal immigrants will not tend to leave again if they intend to return, only a relatively small number are caught out when they return later.
Therefore catching them on the way out is of questionable usefulness for the most part since the only real action available is to deport them.

 

[cgcenet]

Why was anything ever built for international trains there? Besides the Olympics, it's just too close to St Pancras (and of course, trains didn't even stop there for that!).

It would be a useful interchange for the East of England to mainland Europe avoiding central London. Even with the DLR journey between the regional and international stations, it would be easier and quicker than going from Liverpool St to St Pancras on the Circle Line.

 

[jon0844]

Yes it would be useful, but given the need for security/passport/customs it's not really practical to have lots of stations so close together.

 

[jb]

.I'm dubious that the Amsterdam service "will also enhance the scope for customers to connect to a range of destinations in mainland Europe". How exactly?

How about positioning moves to Schipol airport, for cheaper flights ex-EU than ex-UK (possibly involving flying back to Heathrow first)?

 

[anme]

I don't see four hours for central London to central Amsterdam as too uncompetitive. You can probably go a bit faster via London City or Gatwick; probably similar via Heathrow. But the train has the advantage that you can sit and work/sleep/read/etc uninterrupted. It's also hopefully more reliable. For Antwerp and Rotterdam, times should be even better.

More of a problem is the two trains per day service. The chances of there being a train when you need one may be relatively low. Hopefully this is just testing the market, with plans for a more frequent service if it is successful.

Detraining at Lille (or wherever) would certainly reduce its appeal.

I'm glad Eurostar are going to give this a try.

 

[IKBrunel]

If this research is anything to go by, it sounds like there are thoughts of increase baggage screening rather than less:
www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/europe/single-view/view/input-needed-to-secure-stations.html

EUROPE: Funded under the European Union’s FP7 research programme, the Secure Station project is seeking input via an online survey from transport users as part of its study to develop improved guidelines for the design of major transport hubs.
Secure Station is seeking to reduce the risk of all types of crime and anti-social behaviour by ‘designing out’ such threats at new build or refurbished facilities. The project partners, which include the UK’s University of Sheffield and project leader Isdefe, a Spanish defence consultancy, are examining issues such as CCTV use, staffing levels and baggage screening.

oh dear

 

[anme]

If this research is anything to go by, it sounds like there are thoughts of increase baggage screening rather than less:
www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/europe/single-view/view/input-needed-to-secure-stations.html

oh dear

Not good news, but I wouldn't take ideas from European FP projects too seriously. They are more about industrial development than policy, and any results will be a long time coming.