Eurostar : Why are there no speed and distance in UK measurements?

[Mutant Lemming]

Most info onboard is shown in French, English and on Brussels/Amsterdam services Flemish/Dutch but speeds and distances are not translated into UK measurements. Why are speeds not shown in MPH or distances shown in Miles, feet etc ?

 

[Tio Terry]

Probably because it's built in accordance with Technical Standards for Interoperability (TSI's) and those do not use imperial measurements.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Probably because it's built in accordance with Technical Standards for Interoperability (TSI's) and those do not use imperial measurements.

it doesn't have the capability to divide by 8 and multiply by 5 ?

 

[quantinghome]

Most info onboard is shown in French, English and on Brussels/Amsterdam services Flemish/Dutch but speeds and distances are not translated into UK measurements. Why are speeds not shown in MPH or distances shown in Miles, feet etc ?

The metric system has been a legally acceptable UK measurement system since 1896. And kph feels faster than mph.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

The metric system has been a legally acceptable UK measurement system since 1896. And kph feels faster than mph.

It might be acceptable but our vehicles measure MPH and our road signs are in miles - KM means nothing to me - I have to do the calculation to miles for it to actually mean something.

 

[talltim]

It's lucky you don't drive Eurostars (or some trams) then...

 

[Agent_Squash]

It might be acceptable but our vehicles measure MPH and our road signs are in miles - KM means nothing to me - I have to do the calculation to miles for it to actually mean something.

KM is much easier for the majority of people these days (schools don’t even teach conversion anymore) - and seems faster as mentioned already, a key Eurostar selling point.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Or perhaps it's about time we just standardised with everyone else?

 

[flash]

Most info onboard is shown in French, English and on Brussels/Amsterdam services Flemish/Dutch but speeds and distances are not translated into UK measurements. Why are speeds not shown in MPH or distances shown in Miles, feet etc ?

From a drivers point of view everywhere is metrc, HS1, Eurotunnel etc all speeds and distances are in Km. obviously Europe are all metric. The E320s have no Mph settings at all, the TMST's are only mph for redundant UK settings (750v dc and UK 25kv). So I can imagine that it would involve more lines of software code within the PIS (Public information system) to show the imperial equivilants.

 

[Tio Terry]

it doesn't have the capability to divide by 8 and multiply by 5 ?

No. Why would it need to? The vast majority of the European HS network uses KPH, it's only the little bit in the UK that might want to use MPH and the cost does not justify the change.

Are you aware of the European TENS? It may help your understanding of the EU's intentions.

 

[Journeyman]

It might be acceptable but our vehicles measure MPH and our road signs are in miles - KM means nothing to me - I have to do the calculation to miles for it to actually mean something.

I was born in 1974, and was educated entirely in metric, so I don't have a clue how imperial measures work.

I wish we'd just bloody well change over to metric, like pretty much everywhere else in the world. I'm sick of people moaning about it, it's so much simpler and easier than what went before.

The rail industry is moving to metric in its entirety and has been doing so for some time. The Tyne and Wear Metro and DLR used entirely metric measurements and speeds right from opening. London Underground has measured all its distances in km since the 1970s, and the lines switching over the ATO use km/h for speeds as well. HS1 uses km/h, HS2 will use it, and the Cambrian ETCS installation uses it as well.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Don't you mean Roman measurements

 

[Journeyman]

KM is much easier for the majority of people these days (schools don’t even teach conversion anymore) - and seems faster as mentioned already, a key Eurostar selling point.

I went to school from 1979 to 1992, and wasn't taught conversion at all.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Computer programs written to handle £sd were hilarious, everything was stored in pence

 

[DavidGrain]

The correct international abbreviation for kilometres per hour is km/h not KPH.

And yes a mile was a Roman measurement from 'mille passus', a thousand paces. The Roman army measured marching distances as a pace being movement of both the left and right feet which why today a mile is 1,760 yards not just under 1,000 yards

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Have a ride on the Cambrian line from Shrewsbury to the coast.
It has ETCS, so the route is measured in km and the train speeds are in km/h.
As ETCS is rolled out across the UK, all affected lines/rolling stock will be reconfigured to metric.
London Underground is already metric throughout.
All modern engineering is in metric, and so is the Channel Tunnel and HS1/HS2.
UK mainline electrification has been metric since the 1970s, with the masts showing locations in km.
Metric is the world standard, not just Europe.

 

[DavidGrain]

Computer programs written to handle £sd were hilarious, everything was stored in pence

When I was writing computer programs in the late 1970s which was post decimalisation we were writing calculations in pence with a 2 decimal place marker against the number. I was dealing with stock exchange transactions and Government stocks (Gilts) were priced in pounds and fractions 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 even 1/32 and as a precaution I also allowed for 1/64. Company shares were priced in pence up to £10 and pounds and fractions over £10.

Incidentally do you know why both our currency and imperial weight are measured in pounds? It was because 240 Anglo Saxon silver pennies weighed one pound sterling (sterling means silver).

We have always measured car engine sizes in litres or cubic centimetres whereas the Americans talk about cubic inches and I haven't a clue what that represents.

 

[DavidGrain]

Distances on the London Underground are measured in kilometres from the buffer stops at Ongar. Oh Dear! they have lost their datum point.

 

[DavidGrain]

I used to work for a transport company and one of my jobs was to collate the milages monthly for all our 500 vehicles as our contract hire contracts had provision for the leasing companies to charge for excess milages. Our cars and vans were in miles but all our lorries and trailers were in kilometres.

 

[Journeyman]

Distances on the London Underground are measured in kilometres from the buffer stops at Ongar. Oh Dear! they have lost their datum point.

The "0.0" marker is still there!

 

[EM2]

Have a ride on the Cambrian line from Shrewsbury to the coast.
It has ETCS, so the route is measured in km and the train speeds are in km/h.
As ETCS is rolled out across the UK, all affected lines/rolling stock will be reconfigured to metric.
London Underground is already metric throughout.
All modern engineering is in metric, and so is the Channel Tunnel and HS1/HS2.
UK mainline electrification has been metric since the 1970s, with the masts showing locations in km.
Metric is the world standard, not just Europe.

And in addition to all of that, when the 91s and Mk4s were introduced, they were marketed as Inter-City 225, i.e. 225 km/h.

 

[Ash Bridge]

And in addition to all of that, when the 91s and Mk4s were introduced, they were marketed as Inter-City 225, i.e. 225 km/h.

Indeed they were, and from at least 1972 BR were stencilling rolling stock in both imperial and metric values.

 

[AM9]

It might be acceptable but our vehicles measure MPH and our road signs are in miles - KM means nothing to me - I have to do the calculation to miles for it to actually mean something.

Well now is your opportunity to ditch the old continental units for distance, (miles) and learn the current British measurement system (km). We have been a metric country since 1965 and since 2000, the only non-metric units allowed by United Kingdom law without supplementary indicators (i.e. metric equivalents) for economic, public health, public safety or administrative use, are limited to:

• the mile, yard, foot and inch for road traffic signs, distance and speed measurement,
• the imperial pint for the dispensing of draught beer and cider, and for the sale of milk in returnable containers,
• the acre for land registration,
• the troy ounce for transaction in precious metals.

There were easements in places like street markets to allow for the elderly and those unwilling to learn metric measurements, to continue to buy in familiar units but that was driven as much by political motives as any real need. The 2000 legislation removed that as by then, metric measurement had been taught in schools for over 20 years and 95% of domestic shopping commodities had similarly been metric for that time.
In short, the UK has been a metric nation for a long time and only dinosaurs hanker for the continued use of the outdated distance units brought here from Rome by the anticedents of current day Italians.

 

[jon0844]

It might be acceptable but our vehicles measure MPH and our road signs are in miles - KM means nothing to me - I have to do the calculation to miles for it to actually mean something.

Google can do it for you very quickly. Or just get an app that shows the speed in whatever measurement you prefer!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Or perhaps it's about time we just standardised with everyone else?

Why ? - shouldn't something as fundamental as changing our system of measurements have been put to a vote for the people to decide ?

 

[AM9]

It might be acceptable but our vehicles measure MPH and our road signs are in miles - KM means nothing to me - I have to do the calculation to miles for it to actually mean something.

Our vehicles don't measure mph, the have had scales on them including km/h since the late '70s but the needle shows an angular position proportional the the speed of the input shaft *
If you had two cars of the same model, one a mainland European version (lhd) and the other a UK European version, driven side by side at the same speed, the speedometer needle would both be at the same angle.
* other types of indicator are available but in essence, the input is the same for whatever units of distance are used. In other words, it is just the figures that the population have had over 40 years to get used to.

 

[AM9]

Why ? - shouldn't something as fundamental as changing our system of measurements have been put to a vote for the people to decide ?

I'm surprised that in 2019, somebody is suggesting another referendum after the mess that an essentially uninformed electorate has got the country into. No, the public making a choice on something that involves breaking their habits would be a daft move, especially seeing how some still hold some sort of grudge about anything 'foreign' 50 years after the country actually legislated the change.

 

[MarcVD]

But strangely enough, the whole airline industry still uses the imperial system, except above the ex USSR countries...

 

[edwin_m]

it doesn't have the capability to divide by 8 and multiply by 5 ?

Well you can do that for yourself - as you say it's not exactly difficult. A display in km/h on Eurostar is better than nothing, which is what you get in the way of speed display for passengers on any UK domestic train.

 

[jon0844]

Why ? - shouldn't something as fundamental as changing our system of measurements have been put to a vote for the people to decide ?

Should we stick with Fahrenheit for temperature too, as the Daily Express and Mail seem to prefer?